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I don't think a thing such as a colorized universal adoption is even possible. We all are different, have different taste and also see colors differently, I for one am not a fan of colors and they only bother me, some colors I just can stand, not because they are ugly or anything, it's just that my eyes don't like looking at them. And too many colors at once is just confusing. I often never read any colored messages and just ignore them, sometimes I'm trying to understand what that person wanted to say, but it's rare.

I like the standard white font. That's what I see best and read fastest. Everything else slows me down and to read that I lose my concentration for the game. But you're idea isn't bad at all. It's just that, that a universal or standardization colorization is not possible... unless you ignore some people complaining and go for what you think is good

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Xeno The Blind wrote:You can argue that it works with white but there is no way that white is more efficient.

It all comes down to the individual, yes I do read faster white, and I am used to colored text too, which is the reason why I bring this up. But still, there's is no right or wrong, and there is no "faster-way-to-read". It's all about how you see this and how comfortable you're with this. You might be faster with colored text, I'm not. That's all I wanted to say. We are both right and both wrong.

Oh, and what about the color blind people?

ai wrote:

Xeno The Blind wrote:You can argue that it works with white but there is no way that white is more efficient.

It all comes down to the individual, yes I do read faster white, and I am used to colored text too, which is the reason why I bring this up. But still, there's is no right or wrong, and there is no "faster-way-to-read". It's all about how you see this and how comfortable you're with this. You might be faster with colored text, I'm not. That's all I wanted to say. We are both right and both wrong.

Oh, and what about the color blind people?

Yes.. think of all the blind ppl playing nexuiz!

Regarless of how fast you acctualy read the message a color coded one should be faster to recognize, this is just the way the brain works (and why code editors use syntax highlightning). We can ofc not force everyone to use the same message "encodning" but a resonable default should included in nexuiz imo.

I think Xeno's prototype is basicaly good, however some colors have an emotional meaning and should be used in that context. red/yellow is usualy associated with danger/offensive so the "incomming" text is a good candidate one of thise colors. "attacking" also. blue and green usualy the oposite, so thise are good for "defendning", "free item" etc.

Yes, color coding for programming and such is faster and easier to read, but you don't play and are concentrated on not getting killed in a game either I meant the overall Nexuiz gameplay

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I like the idea to use variables for the 'similar' parts in the messages.. good thing but copy/paste in the config file is also not that much work But it still seems hard to agree on colors.. ai does not seem to like them and i'm too more of purist so i'm not sure if colors and fonts are worth it..

You seem to use lots of ^NUMBER codes to make your messages wrap, you know that you push other messages away like that? Remember the chat area in 2.2 is just 5 lines high by default! Its better to try to make the info into one line, so you can read other messages too. I doubt 'your' messages are more important then others

AND YES we also know WHAT OTHER stuff you do with wrapping messages.. i want you to consider this a WARNING ok?

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Xeno The Blind wrote:tZork has adopted the same colors now with slight variation on the messages (but some stat colors) and it works fine... no complaints about the color choices there. ai is only against colors per se and that mostly due to habit. Also, since I have yet to see ai use team messages at all, I don't see how his opinion is valid in the matter.

Well i acctualy been using thise messages and color codes since before you even registerd here

At the end of the day, the colors are currently logical in their choice (with variation open for messages themselves) and they make messages much more legible (I say this now from experience of playing with tZork).

Only one team message comes up in the middle of the screen at once. The new chat message box does not recognize the color codes as character entities so the wrapping that you see in the team message space does not apply in the new chat box (nor did it the same way in the old one)... since you can only see one message in the team chat at once anyway, the wrapping doesn't matter... and it comes up as one line in the new chat box. That can't be something to complain about, especially since it makes it much clearer.

I already talked to div0 about the fake messages and I won't use them on his server at all anymore, or any others probably (or I might change them... really though, I think some of you have taken it way to seriously... maybe that's just a culture thing... humour varies considerably across boarders). Anyway, they're no longer of any concern to you.

I suspected as mutch. The bad thing with stuff like that is that it may very well scare not so experianced users, think they and/or the server is beeing hakked.

The reason to use the variable is in case you want to change something quickly... sure you can just do a find and replace, but this way is easier. (I suspect that some people are just playing devil's advocate for no real reason whatsoever here).

Try out the colors with some other people and see what you think first. I don't see what being a purist has to do with it... unless if by being a purist you mean "I'm too stuck in my old inefficient ways to consider something new and will thus try to undermine it rather than try it", than I would say forget about being a purist. Seriously, do you program exlusively in a plain text editor, avoiding all those useful, um, I mean pesky, troublesome code highlighters and other extra functions?

With that attitude, you may as well play the game in black and white and replace the hud with plain text...

Xeno The Blind wrote:ai is only against colors per se and that mostly due to habit. Also, since I have yet to see ai use team messages at all, I don't see how his opinion is valid in the matter.

No, it's not "just a habit", trust me, I've had colors and other stuff going on in many other games (even tried them in Nexuiz yes), but for Nexuiz this doesn't fit. And they make me confused and dropping my concentration, not because I haven't used or seen colors codes that much, but simply only because that's the impact of those on me.

Xeno The Blind wrote:Also, since I have yet to see ai use team messages at all, I don't see how his opinion is valid in the matter.

If it wouldn't be valid then lets just forget about all the newbies and other players who don't use team messages, shall we? (Btw, from time to time I do use them, but as an experienced player knowing mostly where my teammates are I don't need to use them)

Xeno The Blind wrote:Try out the colors with some other people and see what you think first. I don't see what being a purist has to do with it... unless if by being a purist you mean "I'm too stuck in my old inefficient ways to consider something new and will thus try to undermine it rather than try it", than I would say forget about being a purist. Seriously, do you program exlusively in a plain text editor, avoiding all those useful, um, I mean pesky, troublesome code highlighters and other extra functions?

With that attitude, you may as well play the game in black and white and replace the hud with plain text...

As I posted above, text editors, programming tools etc. has nothing to do with Nexuiz, you don't play a game and are concentrated with that when you program. You should also take notice of what maps are played, depending on the map some colors will be very hard to see, and the configuration of the clients. I for one don't have sky box which makes it black and then it's impossible for me to see black letters.

And this, "unless if by being a purist you mean "I'm too stuck in my old inefficient ways to consider something new and will thus try to undermine it rather than try it" ", is your opinion, it's your opinion that you think not using color codes is inefficient. But for others NOT using them is more efficient.

As I said before, we're both right and wrong. But don't diss other peoples' opinions just cause you think using colors is more efficient to you.

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Xeno The Blind wrote:Only one team message comes up in the middle of the screen at once. The new chat message box does not recognize the color codes as character entities so the wrapping that you see in the team message space does not apply in the new chat box (nor did it the same way in the old one)

I must admit i did not test it so in that case ok, its no a problem. I just wanted to raise a concern in case it had warped.. sorry

Xeno The Blind wrote:I already talked to div0 about the fake messages and I won't use them on his server at all anymore, or any others probably (or I might change them... really though, I think some of you have taken it way to seriously... maybe that's just a culture thing... humour varies considerably across boarders). Anyway, they're no longer of any concern to you.

Its not because we are humorless but putting words into other peoples mouth whom you might not even know is not really polite and can also make a bad impression on beginners. You seem to have taken some time for this and are also very helpful beside this issue so its fine if you use your knowledge to play a practical joke but please remember not everyone will notice it as a joke.. Nothing personal.

Xeno The Blind wrote:The reason to use the variable is in case you want to change something quickly... sure you can just do a find and replace, but this way is easier. (I suspect that some people are just playing devil's advocate for no real reason whatsoever here).

Well how often does one change those things? Because all my binds share the same 'info string' i can do search/replace if i want to change them and i will NOT change them during a game for sure.. so YES its a cool idea but not really that useful Also its easier to copy the 'non-variables' version into other games. Yes i happen to do that

Xeno The Blind wrote:Try out the colors with some other people and see what you think first. I don't see what being a purist has to do with it... unless if by being a purist you mean "I'm too stuck in my old inefficient ways to consider something new and will thus try to undermine it rather than try it", than I would say forget about being a purist. Seriously, do you program exlusively in a plain text editor, avoiding all those useful, um, I mean pesky, troublesome code highlighters and other extra functions?

I use color highlighting during programming but when programming you have LOTS of text while in team play you usually have at most two significant words (at least in my versions) in a message. We already agreed that the health, armor and weapon info is not that useful but sometimes its nice to know. Those significant two words always come after the name of the messenger being followed by the location (in my version). I see no reason to highlight that even more by using colors or fonts. Its not needed if you were to ask me.
Highlighting the beginning of those extra infos might be useful so one can locate them more easily but as with the exception of the location that info is very short i'd also just highlight the l: h: a: and w: without fancy parentheses..

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Xeno The Blind wrote:ai, I'm not disrespecting others' opinions, only the arguments that have been presented. Given an amount of text containing disparate information, chromatic markers can be proven to increase the speed at which one reads it. Aslo, I honestly don't understand how color codes could completely destroy your concentration while you can scan a long white line of text with no differentiators while in the middle of whatever you're doing without a problem...

I never said color codes "completely" destroy my concentration, but trying to read those, I do need to focus more on that than if it were white. I don't know what it is, I guess I just read faster if I'm not distracted by changes to the text all the time. (Which also brings up the issue of the map and configurations to the client, which can make some colors less visible)

Xeno The Blind wrote:(which you apparently don't have to do anyway since you know where everyone is and what they're doing).

My idea from the beginning is for those who use them... apparently we're not all as experienced as you and don't always know what other people on the team are doing at any given moment, especially people that we don't know...

I never said I knew "exactly all the time" where "everyone" are and "what they're doing". I said that I Mostly knew where my Teammates were, not what they were doing.

Xeno The Blind wrote:I never said that all newbies should be forced to use team messages, let alone the color scheme.

I know that, you even stated that above in a previews post. But I refered to the "Also, since I have yet to see ai use team messages at all, I don't see how his opinion is valid in the matter.", which would seem like anyone who doesn't use team say shouldn't have a say in this matter.

Xeno The Blind wrote:I don't know what percentage of people that play Nexuiz actually bother to learn about the config file to begin with, but for those that do want to use team messages etc, having a few "ready made" ones would be good, that way it's easier for newbies to make sense of them too, plus if you noticed that everyone is using the same thing to communicate on teams, you might be more inclined to do it yourself. As it is now, those messages, at least using escape characters to send stats, are hardly used... considering how non-existent the team spirit in ctf games is, enhancing it would be a good thing, imho.

I totaly agree with that.

Xeno The Blind wrote:Seriöst, jag upplever dina svar som ytterst negativa utan någon riktig anledning. Jag har förstått att du är emot detta men då det inte riktigt påverkar dig enligt vad du har skrivit, så borde du inte bry dig om det. Du har precis sagt att du inte behöver läsa meddelanden då du har koll på var alla är... då kan du lika väl låta bli att läsa de förvirrande färgade meddelandena. Jag menar inte detta på något tyket sätt... jag tycker bara att dina argument inte håller. Det räcker att bara säga "jag gillar det inte, det är min åsikt och jag behöver inga meddelande ändå... gör ni some ni vill". Och ja,det stämmer, ingen har rätt eller fel... så varför sätter du dig emot detta så ivrigt?

That's just wrong. Speak English so we all can understand.
What he said was (in a nutshell) that my arguments are negative without a reason. But the arguments are simple:
1. Color codes are not good for people that are distracted by those (like me).
2. Depending on the map some colors will not work at all (you would need to go to the console to read up).
3. Depending on the configurations set for on the client's machine some colors will not work (I have such configs due to my slow computer that I cannot see some colors well).
4. Well, some people might just not agree at all (with colors, with the adobtion etc.)

I'm not saying we should totaly dump color codes etc. they can surely help many people to quickly get the message, the more people like it the better. But it's the "universal" act that might misslead people. If the more people agree with using a "standard" color code then that's great. But making it universal might confuse newbies to think that that's how it should be. Just be careful what words you pick. I bet if you wouldn't use that word this conversation never would have happened lool
Well actually it was this "maybe we can agree on this now for universal adoption.", if you wouldn't have written that I know I would just probably ignore this thread

Xeno The Blind wrote:tZork, if you've been using exactly the same colors since before I registered, then that's just a better argument for the color choices' being intuitive.

They usualy work, but they needs some fiddeling so get clearer. and theres to mutch info in my teamsay msgs.

Xeno The Blind wrote:...
Seriöst, jag upplever dina svar som ytterst negativa utan någon riktig anledning. Jag har förstått att du är emot detta men då det inte riktigt påverkar dig enligt vad du har skrivit, så borde du inte bry dig om det. Du har precis sagt att du inte behöver läsa meddelanden då du har koll på var alla är... då kan du lika väl låta bli att läsa de förvirrande färgade meddelandena. Jag menar inte detta på något tyket sätt... jag tycker bara att dina argument inte håller. Det räcker att bara säga "jag gillar det inte, det är min åsikt och jag behöver inga meddelande ändå... gör ni some ni vill". Och ja,det stämmer, ingen har rätt eller fel... så varför sätter du dig emot detta så ivrigt?

English pls. If you wish to speak privatly to ai send him a pm.

I request that this thread be deleted immediately. There is nothing more to discuss.