Dokujisan and I were talking (or arguing rather) about laser-jumping and other things that give players an "advantage" over newbs (essentially the same stances as found in the fov-zoom-alias thread) and basically concluded there the following should be done to make it easier for new players to learn the techniques etc:


Demos should be created to show different laser-jumps and other tricks (including other weapons).

Training maps should be created (simple maps with walls that you need to laserclimb, gaps to jump over, ramps that require air control, etc)... with demos of course.

Integrate this into the menu if possible to make it easily accessible. Documentation could be included in the menu about various techniques.





Thoughts?

From the Nexuiz wiki:

Educational maps alias Noobmaps

On the way. Done, when it's done.

The project is called "Noobmaps", and it is currently under developement. A slow, but steady developement. Noobmaps has stepped further, then it was actually planned. It won't be just a bunch of new maps, but an entire mod, as it has more features then the original game. These are:

* Regular feedback to the player
* Controlled spawning
* Commands executed by a trigger
* And much more

The project is made by C.Brutail and tZork, but we're open to recive any help. If you would like to work on Noobmaps, feel free to contact us. C.Brutail: erakionv43@gmail.com

May contain these maps:

* Basic training (ALMOST DONE)
* Advanced movement (CURRENTLY ONLY CONCEPT)
* CTF Training (UNDER WORK)
* Domination training (CURRENTLY ONLY CONCEPT)
* Shooting range (UNDER WOKR)
* Lobby (UNDER WORK)

But it was never finished, in fact, it's almost a year now that we've haven't done anithing. Maybe most of the data is lost due a hd crash

http://esteel.planetnexuiz.de/nexuiz/demos/jumps.pk3
I made those, but they actually show movement tricks without weapons and only one jump with the laser. Those demos are not big and could be added to the 'normal' demos, It gets annoying after some time as i did more of those demos for older versions and it also takes quite some time to think about text and prepare it (if you want to explain some stuff and not just show the jumps. Typing it 'live' while recording the demo is ugly and breaks the flow).

To prepare such text i basicly make binding like this:
alias "tut_msg_1" "say Welcome to the first tutorial; alias tut_toggle tut_msg_2"
alias "tut_msg_2" "say Here you will learn about the very basics; alias tut_toggle tut_msg_3"
alias "tut_msg_3" "say First of all you should go into the options menu and setup your player; alias tut_toggle tut_msg_4"
alias "tut_msg_4" "disconnect; alias tut_toggle tut_msg_1"
alias "tut_toggle" "tut_msg_1"
bind "p" "tut_toggle"

So you just have to press p to show the next message. That way you can show the text right after a trick without stopping to type but preperation takes time. And some stuff NEEDS explaination and not just showing it. A long time back i started to do tutorial demos but almost noone helped with ideas or suggestions so i dropped them after some time. Also stuff can and will change in Nexuiz which means you might have to redo them for a new version.

Noobmaps seem like a great idea. That would be my first thought. Something like the training in AA or Ghost Recon 2

For demos, it would be possible to attach echos to the movement keys so that someone watching the demo can see exactly when keys are pressed and released (if echos are shown in demos... I still don't know anything about recording or playing demos).

C.Brutail wrote:The project is made by C.Brutail and tZork, but we're open to recive any help. If you would like to work on Noobmaps, feel free to contact us. C.Brutail: erakionv43@gmail.com

I would join, but i didnt have enough knowledge

C.Brutail wrote:But it was never finished, in fact, it's almost a year now that we've haven't done anithing. Maybe most of the data is lost due a hd crash

Let me guess you work the whole time on cb_ctf4 and tZork on nexdm10

Hehe nah i released a pile of maps since that project went into coma. Main reason it went dead was lack of ideas how to proceed. i have all (i think) the data in a backup of my old svn server.

cortez wrote:I would join, but i didnt have enough knowledge

No problemo, you can learn while you're doing it

Let me guess you work the whole time on cb_ctf4 and tZork on nexdm10

Actually, no cb_ctf4 was not even a pervert idea when we abandoned the project.

Main reasosn were like, as tZork mentioned, we'v ran out of ideas, but mostly time, and the whole project grew upon on our heads. I mean, We had so much ideas, that could have been cool to implement, but that would take us another weeks to make oO

Like the first take of noobmaps was a simple map, starting off from a aspawn point. Then, it evolved to a room, from where you can get to another map via a teleporter. Then the first room became a "lobby", actually a big, real map from where you can reach more and more maps via a teleporter.

The project is just too big for two people. We'd need at least 4 mappersa modeller, and 2 coders.
Maybe, once we resurrect the project, becouse it's a very good idea, and would be a blast!

I just wanted to add that the idea that I had in mind was to splice together various pieces from demos into a video format that can be offered through the Nexuiz website.

Someone on the forum said that Nexuiz had the ability to output AVI files. Text and/or voice can be overlayed to narrate and explain the movements. The splices could be put into a step-by-step type of format.

I can do video editing with Premiere Pro if that is needed. What I don't have is all of the Nexuiz knowledge. I have some ideas on what to cover, but I'm sure my ideas, and my knowledge, are incomplete. If we pool together some notes, then perhaps the steps to getting this done can be mapped out. I think this kind of thing could have a dramatic effect on newbies transitioning into intermediate to advanced users.

You can even have a CTF-specific video. You can show some examples of what not to do in CTF.

The whole idea is that explaining something with video is much more effective than reading text or using screen captures. Also, using a video format with explanations of movement is much better than just offering demo files. Having the ability to explain things and to splice just the important parts together makes all the difference.

To spare bandwidth, the videos can be hosted on one or more of the popular video hosting sites....Youtube, Dailymotion, etc.

This could be completed before the noobmaps project is ready. Noobmaps would be in addition to this. Noobmaps does sound like a good project though.

If someone if going to do voice narration, I think it should be a native English speaker- if it is in English.

I think the noobmaps should be resurrected in a way as its own campaign. Having it as a mod might've been more practical pre-2.0, but I think keeping it as such is kinda moot, considering most newbies aren't going to know where to look for it, much less how to install and get it to run.

The video might be helpful, but ultimately an in-game tutorial is probably what will help most new players get the basic game elements down.

How about if you make it a CTF map...

were you have to laser jump over a lava
climb ladders then pick up a nex and shoot a target and it will open the door and you will drop through
then you crawl in a small room and in there is the flag
This might be hard this one what if you have like a thing in a sertain place were it takes your health down if you are going to slow (for speed gaining)
There also could be a few BOTS that run but have no guns and you have to use a certain weapon (probly not posiible)

This is just a few ideas
=======================================

also in the next versoin of nexuiz can the bots laser jump and use grapling hook (i'm not sure if that has already been asked)

C.Brutail wrote:The project is just too big for two people. We'd need at least 4 mappersa modeller, and 2 coders.
Maybe, once we resurrect the project, becouse it's a very good idea, and would be a blast!

I would be glad to help out.

Nexuiz really needs the noobmaps project imo.

shaggy! wrote:How about if you make it a CTF map...

were you have to laser jump over a lava
climb ladders then pick up a nex and shoot a target and it will open the door and you will drop through
then you crawl in a small room and in there is the flag
This might be hard this one what if you have like a thing in a sertain place were it takes your health down if you are going to slow (for speed gaining)
There also could be a few BOTS that run but have no guns and you have to use a certain weapon (probly not posiible)

if you want to make that map, go ahead. although it would be kind of stupid because you would not even have to defend the flag, or even be able to defend it for that matter. and the bots thing is all most possible but would be frowned upon.

shaggy! wrote:also in the next versoin of nexuiz can the bots laser jump and use grapling hook (i'm not sure if that has already been asked)

no, but does it even matter? are you that anti-social?

[TSA] Psychiccyberfreak wrote:

shaggy! wrote:

shaggy! wrote:also in the next versoin of nexuiz can the bots laser jump and use grapling hook (i'm not sure if that has already been asked)

no, but does it even matter? are you that anti-social?

[TSA] Psychiccyberfreak wrote:if you want to make that map, go ahead. although it would be kind of stupid because you would not even have to defend the flag, or even be able to defend it for that matter. and the bots thing is all most possible but would be frowned upon.

no, but does it even matter? are you that anti-social?

LOL, well i'm here talking to all of you but the main reson for it is that the newer people (me) may like to see how it is done, because all the good ppl do it so fast that you cant really see.

the map couldn't be on a good server it would have to be somthing you download for practice.

shaggy! wrote:but the main reson for it is that the newer people (me) may like to see how it is done, because all the good ppl do it so fast that you cant really see.

well, you can always look at demos in slow motion. There's some demos in the storm assault forum if you need some:
http://www.stormassault.com/index.php?o ... at&catid=5