http://www.planetside.co.uk/terragen/win/downloadwin.shtml wrote:For commercial use as described in the License Agreement, registration is required beyond the initial trial period. This also entitles you to additional benefits and removes the restriction on image size. Terragen is free during the initial trial period.

divVerent wrote:In the specific case of terragen, it may be the case that the agreement is void, as you don't get it BEFORE downloading. On other sites (e.g. sun.com), you need to agree to the terms before downloading... which makes it valid.

But, it is too dangerous to rely on that.

divVerent wrote:I don't believe a word of what you are saying.

First of all, I doubt the first sale doctrine actually applies here. It allows you to sell the product you have bought. But I see nothing in it that states anything about what ELSE you can do with it.

Then... if what you say is true... why do especially US companies put such a contract before the download? I doubt it's really void. It may be hard to prove that it was part of the contract though.

A8hm wrote:You don't have to believe anything. You would have known about what is needed to make a contact if you studied law. Eulas have been struck down in the USA in various juristictions because they do not create a valid contract. Weather or not you believe me and the US courts and the letter of the law please don't tell other mappers that they cannot use terragen as they wish because in the USA that is not true.

A8hm wrote:In the USA the agreement is effectivly void without an electronic signature (identifying information of yours). The 'I agree' button doesn't qualify. There is no contact. Since there are multiple reasons why this prohibiton is unenforcable I do not think it is risky for him to use terragen in this manner: the law says it's not illegal, the courts say it's not illegal: It's not illegal in the USA. If he lives in the USA he's free and clear to what I see. If he does not then he needs someone in the land of the free (or another country with similar to US laws) to make his skybox for him.

A8hm wrote:Yes, I'm talking from US law as it's all I know.

Now that we know his copyrights are valid we have to defeat the next problem and that is the license. There are two ways to do this in the US.

First is the first sale doctrine and the next is the electronic signature laws.

Terragen inc is selling you terragen for $0. You buy the software for $0. They didn't negotiate with you. You can do whatever you want with the software now (first sale doctrine applies).

Second is trying to get you to agree to an End User License Agreement. This Agreement is a contract, however you did not give any identifying information [you just click 'I Agree'] which does not qualify as an electronic signature.

A8hm wrote:US courts have ruled that the output of a program cannot be copyrighted / claimed by the owners/authors of the program. The copyrights go to the user. Any output he creates in terragen is copyrighted to him. Weather he has a properly licensed version of terragen is between him and the company (he might have one even).

The terragen authors cannot invalidate his copyright to his skyboxes regardless of licensing status.

So, yes, he can release skyboxes he creates in terragen under whatever license he wishes to release them under no matter if his copy of terragen is legal or not.

That is the law.

A8hm wrote:You don't have to believe anything. You would have known about what is needed to make a contact if you studied law. Eulas have been struck down in the USA in various juristictions because they do not create a valid contract. Weather or not you believe me and the US courts and the letter of the law please don't tell other mappers that they cannot use terragen as they wish because in the USA that is not true.

TVR wrote:[PS, Software usage is permitted by a 'End User License Agreement', it is different from hardware, as accepting an EULA is a standard requirement for use of propriety software, and the purchasing party must agree to the exact same EULA; The EULA itself is valid because it can be seen before acceptance.]

divVerent wrote:I just wonder why we have this discussion at all. Whether or not it is LEGAL to use the data produced by the NONCOMMERCIAL version of terragen for COMMERCIAL purposes (which includes the GPL), is one question. But even if it is legal - it for sure is wrong. Use the commercial version then, or ask the terragen people that question (maybe they will say that GPL is still okay to them, or offer you a registration that allows GPL redistribution at a lower price than the usual).

If people abuse their rights to no end, the consequence is that they lose their rights. Just look to the music industry. DMCA wouldn't have happened if people had kept their copying and file sharing at a moderate level. Games wouldn't usually have a copy protection which makes them not work on some systems if people would sometimes BUY games. And they wouldn't have anticheat software that takes full control over your system and lets attackers in if there weren't these pesky aimbotters who use an aimbot to get an advantage in a public or even competition game (IMHO there is nothing wrong with using one in a "fair" game, like, a LAN game where everyone uses aimbot, or where people KNOW about it).

HumanRemains wrote:Maybe a mod can split these two topics ? I don't think C. Brutail started this thread to talk about loopholes in international law.

A8hm wrote:Rights are granted by God, not by Governments. [...] The DMCA came into existence because the brainwashing industry wanted concrete control.

HumanRemains wrote:Maybe a mod can split these two topics ? I don't think C. Brutail started this thread to talk about loopholes in international law.

C.Brutail wrote:

HumanRemains wrote:Maybe a mod can split these two topics ? I don't think C. Brutail started this thread to talk about loopholes in international law.

I totally agree. Stop this BS in my thread please.
I've started the thread (tho I haven't pointed it out), to show the progress on the map, and to allow you (the players) to report remaining bugs in the map, give me your ideas about what the it still needs, worship me, etc. etc. etc.

I know about two texture bugs, both in the blue base.
Someone asked what the final version will bring? All corrected texture issues, normalmaps for all textures, _maybe_ a new skybox, iproved vis, and a special gift from Morphed (it's somehow related to the roots of the map )

Stay tuned.

Xeno The Blind wrote:A8hm (a.k.a. MikeUSA,)... why do you undermine your own argumentative standpoint by posting ridiculous shite about America's hegemony, blah blah blah. It truly is people like you who give Americans a bad name everywhere. Pull your head out of your fat ass and keep your arguments on track. When someone has to resort to "and I'm so much better than you because of this, and people from your country don't get that, blah fucking blah" as an argument, you can pretty much tell that they've run out of valid points.

Btw, rights are given by the Flying Spaghetti Monster... you should sacrifice some grated cheese in appreciation of His Noodly Appendage's benevolence. Btw, those same rights are also granted to women.