Why doesnt the re-fire rate just be slowed down a bit..keep it as powerful but just slow it down..that would be effective.

thats my estimation too
if u got a bit of aim u can kill a player with 1-3 shots of crylink too^^

Imo, Crylink is just a *little bit* to strong. Refire should be a bit higher and less damage per shot

Why is nex more powerful than mg even if nex has much less dpi?
With nex you only need to aim 0.1 seconds. Aiming after a shot while the gun is recharging?
Using mg, you have to keep your enemy in your crosshair all the time while firing, which needs a very good and steady aim.
A higher refire is more difficult to handle. Only more skilled players will hit with crylink then. So no "crylink-spamming-newbie-problem".
I would suggest: merge the 2.3 and the 2.4.2 Crylink (and keep the reflecting shots pls)

EDIT: oops, i meant dps (damager per second) not dpi

Red Dragon wrote:Imo, Crylink is just a *little bit* to strong. Refire should be a bit higher and less damage per shot

Why is nex more powerful than mg even if nex has much less dpi?
With nex you only need to aim 0.1 seconds. Aiming after a shot while the gun is recharging?
Using mg, you have to keep your enemy in your crosshair all the time while firing, which needs a very good and steady aim.
A higher refire is more difficult to handle. Only more skilled players will hit with crylink then. So no "crylink-spamming-newbie-problem".
I would suggest: merge the 2.3 and the 2.4.2 Crylink (and keep the reflecting shots pls)

RedDragon i like you, which is why it hurts me to say that your idea of 'making the refire rate a bit higher' is a very silly

it already has the re-fire rate of a chaingun!!

either make it quite powerful as it is, but slow the fire-rate down to make it more skilled to use (less spamming)or keep it the same and lower damage.

both could be tested, but increasing re-fire rate is just pure crazy!!!!!!

Hmm, I think what he meant by "Refire hould be higher" is more time between shots.

RedDragon i like you, which is why it hurts me to say that your idea of 'making the refire rate a bit higher' is a very silly Razz

it already has the re-fire rate of a chaingun!!

either make it quite powerful as it is, but slow the fire-rate down to make it more skilled to use (less spamming)or keep it the same and lower damage.

both could be tested, but increasing re-fire rate is just pure crazy!!!!!!

You got me wrong.
Higher rate BUT LESS damage per shot and so that new dpi <= old dpi
And the current refire rate isnt like mg
its 0.4, mg has 0.1

If you slow the fire rate and keep the dpi it will be like a second mortar / ultra fast RL
All powerful weapons have a very low fire rate (RL, nex, mortar)

EDIT: oops, i meant dps (damager per second) not dpi

oh, guess I was wrong.

Yes, you are crazy, RD

in 2.4 refire was 0.25 (marfar's weapon data) and NOONE said the crylink was overpowered, how do you explain that?

Crylink is different in other ways now too.
The spread and the bounce + wider blast radius.

One thing i always liked about the Crylink was its wide spread (alt fire). Get Strength powerup and "woosh!"

I think both refire rate and damage should be reduced so that the crylink stays a powerful close combat weapon, if you make use of the extra splash damage when it bounces. Maybe you can, for that purpose, even slightly increase the splash damage? That way it would also be useful for shooting enemies near walls. That might even add to the gameplay maybe if that would be the speciality of the crylink, i dunno. But what I don't like is people spraying open spaces and even medium sized rooms making it impossible to survive - at least for me ;o) - without hardly any skill being involved.

I always liked the alt-fire of the crylink for open spaces and "dogfighting", but nowadays I never use the crylink at all when I have any other weapon - and even then I fire only single shots at a low rate because it feels so lame somehow.

Something has to be done definetely there.

But don't get me wrong here, I don't want to complain - Nexuiz is a great game with an otherwise excellent weapon balance as far as I am concerned!

i think the crylink is just fine, the thing is that in some 3rd party maps they are included too often so most people end up using it.

it like if there was more than 1 BFG on a q3 map, you know.

4m wrote:Yes. Replace it with the H.L.A.C. That's the only solution i see.

Just modifie him. There are people who liked the Crylink before it got overpowered

Well, I enjoy the Crylink from the past version and this version. The only problem I see with the crylink now is the newly added bounce, which helps you kill them!

My feelings on the crylink are getting worse as time goes on. If anyone has played with me on Galt's lately, I'm sure you've heard me bitch about it. I can't play on some maps anymore. If it's an open map with a crylink... I just can't play it. It just feels dumb. It's dumb gameplay. It takes a microgram of skill to use that weapon now. It's just not fun to play when there's a weapon that any jackass can pickup and hold down the fire button to destroy 2-3 people within a few shots. I play on maps like minimanq3 now and I see tons of crylink shots being sprayed across the map constantly. On Greatwall reloaded, half of the players use crylinks now.

It's just.....ugh. bleh.

I have a simple request.

When it is nerfed, don't go overboard.

It seems as though the versions it has been a useful weapon in can be counted on one hand (with fingers left over).

It would be a shame to return it back to its historical roots.

Have you tried the current one in svn?

It is reduced in the following ways:

- the bounce damage is halved
- the outer three shots fade out after a distance

divVerent wrote:Have you tried the current one in svn?

It is reduced in the following ways:

- the bounce damage is halved
- the outer three shots fade out after a distance

Is that also the setting on your server? Would love to try it out, don't have SVN stuff yet.

Yes, my server runs with these settings.

Dokujisan wrote:My feelings on the crylink are getting worse as time goes on. If anyone has played with me on Galt's lately, I'm sure you've heard me bitch about it...

interesting, your talking about a 24 slots server with a maplist containing maps not designed for so many players.In these particular conditions, I can understand why the crylink is evil, spamy, a weapon of first choice

The problem is that people just pick up the crylink then sit and spam tunnels/entrances until the end of time, with all the bounces and spread it kills/slows down anyone trying to come that way. That includes TEAMMATES. I get so frustrated getting shot with that thing by teammates as much as enemies. I'm running after enemy fc, getting closer, then some idiot with crylink sitting in one spot without moving, tries to shoot the fc while I'm between him and fc. THANKS A LOT FOR KILLING MY MOMENTUM.

Dusty used to be a very fun map, even with 20 players and now it's unplayable. Greatwall is ruined too. Crylink is put in places where it's close to spawns and flags, and mappers put them there because it's supposed to be a low grade weapon. On maps like greatwall, a lot of times people give up trying to get the flag, they just sit in their bases and spam for 20 minutes because they're tired of dying getting close to enemy flag, let alone picking it up. Sure it's still possible to cap, it's just not fun anymore. You get 1 or 2 players trying to get the flag once in a while, rest of the time it's just frags and frags. Yay. Now it's just TDM, it's not CTF anymore. If I'm moving at 1000 q/u with 200/200 and get killed in a second by 2 newbies spamming in my general direction, yes I'm pissed off.

So yeah, I'm REALLY looking forward to the changes.

nifrek wrote:The problem is that people just pick up the crylink then sit and spam tunnels/entrances until the end of time, with all the bounces and spread it kills/slows down anyone trying to come that way. That includes TEAMMATES. I get so frustrated getting shot with that thing by teammates as much as enemies. I'm running after enemy fc, getting closer, then some idiot with crylink sitting in one spot without moving, tries to shoot the fc while I'm between him and fc. THANKS A LOT FOR KILLING MY MOMENTUM.

Dusty used to be a very fun map, even with 20 players and now it's unplayable. Greatwall is ruined too. Crylink is put in places where it's close to spawns and flags, and mappers put them there because it's supposed to be a low grade weapon. On maps like greatwall, a lot of times people give up trying to get the flag, they just sit in their bases and spam for 20 minutes because they're tired of dying getting close to enemy flag, let alone picking it up. Sure it's still possible to cap, it's just not fun anymore. You get 1 or 2 players trying to get the flag once in a while, rest of the time it's just frags and frags. Yay. Now it's just TDM, it's not CTF anymore. If I'm moving at 1000 q/u with 200/200 and get killed in a second by 2 newbies spamming in my general direction, yes I'm pissed off.

So yeah, I'm REALLY looking forward to the changes.

Exactly. It really does just remove any skill from any fight.

ok, I just tested the current SVN version. I saw that the crylink outer shots fade over distance. Agama and I were testing the bounce damage and we noticed something peculiar. If you shoot straight down on a flat surface, it takes off roughly 20 hp. If you shoot straight down on a curved surface, it takes up between 60 - 70 hp. I did this testing on moonstone. If you go inside the buildings where the ground is flat, shooting straight down takes off 20 hp. Go to the bridge, which uses the same texture but it's curved, and it's 60+ hp when shooting the ground, and also on the grassy areas (like in the tunnels) which are also curvy surfaces.

Was that a known thing (by developers)? Is it an unexpected side effect of some sort?

Am I misinterpreting what exactly is happening?

Maybe it doesn't have to do with curved vs flat surfaces. Agama and I were theorizing that the "ramp jump" effect was giving the bounce an extra boost. Soulbringer said he noticed this before (in 2.4.2) and thought that maybe it caused a parabolic effect which focused the bounce reflection.

Can't we just change it back like i was..
-No discussion blabla
-Everyone is happy
-No one will "spam" with it because its crap again
It really kills the gameplay ( e.g. greatwall , reservoir , which are good maps)
Come on people. Go on FFA server and play with many guys on a server (if there are new player then its even more "crylink spamming") and check it out yourself.
Do'h.

Cheese

Dokujisan wrote:oooh, an overheat feature. Now that might work.

I like that idea, how about it overheats and blows up and kills the spammer that is using it.

This new Crylink has completely changed Nex and I for one don't play as much as I used to because of it, the order of weapons is silly now, the Crylink is the next powerfull weapon after the shotgun? gimmie a break ffs!
The damn thing has damn near killed the game imvho, as well as some of these new skins that are like stick men that are hard to see sideways and some other skin i saw today that was either Santa Clause or something, the skin was red and blue, I had no clue if he was a team mate or a foe.

Common guys, I love this game and its getting lots more players everyday, but with new players come idiots and idiots are spamming the shit out of the Crylink .

I don't use it at all and I don't use plasma balls because those are for n00bs as well.

Lets try to come to some solution here, the entire "feel" of the game has turned to shit the last few months.

100% agree on the criticism on the current crylink. It definetely has to be weakened - another thing, that occurred to me lately: you cannot even shoot any explosive weapon against a crylink spammer as the crylink spray will detonate the weapon immediately, effectively blowing your head off once you shoot. This means, that the crylink spray kills you AND you cannot even defend yourself properly unless you have at least one non-explosive weapon (not counting shotgun, as this is not really useful in medium range combat).

That is very annoying.

But regarding plasma balls - which I believe is the secondary fire of the electro - I do not consider them noobish. Provided, of course, you use them right, which affords a lot of thinking - predicting, where the enemy will go, trying to get a ball to that spot, calculating the bounce and actually shooting the ball with primary - thats quite sophisticated weapon use I'd say.

Of course if you only spam the area with balls then ok thats not sophisticated at all, thats plain noob I agree ;o)

Again I have to say that I very much like the weapon balance of Nexuiz otherwise!

If someone is spamming electro balls (Yes, had to use that phrasing) I tend to just shoot them with the laser and detonate the lot before I hit them.

As for the crylink in its current state, its what I've started using if I've got a nex and no rocket or grenade launcher to finish the job. I feel disgusted

But yeah the detonating rockets thing is annoying, but grenades and even the machinegun seem to do it too. Its just that the crylink has a large area you cant fire directly into without the rocket blowing up in your face.

Never knowingly detonated a rocket with a machinegun - but it happened to me (twice already, I think) that I shot a laser at a rocket and it changed direction I don't know if thats possible (is it?) - maybe there was only a jumppad in between somewhere. If "reflecting" a rocket with a laser is really possible, I have to try that more often. If not, I think that would be a great idea to introduce!

Anyway, back to the topic again: the problem with the crylink is that explosive weapons will detonate even if hit by the splash damage of the crylink spray, which is practically everywhere.

I can't wait till the crylink is rebalanced, it really affects gameplay a lot. I still don't use it if I can avoid it, because it feels so lame. But I see a lot of new players almost exclusively using the crylink.

halogene wrote:but it happened to me (twice already, I think) that I shot a laser at a rocket and it changed direction I don't know if thats possible (is it?)

Yes, it is.

However it's nice the crylink gets to shine a bit after all these versions where it sucked pretty much all the time ^_^

Well it shines a bit too bright now *runs off to get some sunglasses and sunscreen*



But I agree the old crylink was a bit weak and it's nice to help this somehow very nexuiz-ish looking weapon to some more presence. I'd say the intention of the modification was alright, it was just a bit overdone.

P.S.: I will have to practice that deflection thingy with the laser. That is just such a cool thing to do...