C.Brutail wrote:I personally dislike the dash button idea.
Nexuiz is not unrel, and not warsow.
Nexuiz is Nexuiz. We have the laser, and we have bunnyhops, and high air control.
I love the game becouse it's more quake in movement. Please, keep it as it is.
Simple, and brutally deadly fast.

getting back on topic

Can we focus on the hook idea? The dash button idea was just thrown in (my fault, sorry).

For the record though, the dash key would make the game FASTER, not slower.

TVR wrote:Trollz r uz

Xeno The Blind wrote:/me feeds the troll

Noone else is interested in your intellectual cockfight. Stop it plz, or be stopped.

C.Brutail wrote:I personally dislike the dash button idea.
Nexuiz is not unrel, and not warsow.
Nexuiz is Nexuiz. We have the laser, and we have bunnyhops, and high air control.
I love the game becouse it's more quake in movement. Please, keep it as it is.
Simple, and brutally deadly fast.

Point, but lets not forget, this dont have to be enabled by default or in all gamemodes. Double tapping a movement key seems like a relly bad idea indeed, and yeh dedicated keys for each move would eat to mutch keyboard. Perhaps hold some (one for all) key down and move mouse left for left dash, forward for rush etc? kinda like mouse gestures.

Imo, it would be fun to try if a decent howto was found. And yes games and apps need their distinction (to some degree, matters less when theres no cash involved), but that cant be a argument against trying new stuff. after all, if it was that mutch better before those changes will be reverted.

A hook with limited range and as laser secondary does sound like a good idea to me, perhaps even with balistic trajectory. The classical shaft hook should be some kinda energy weapon PICKUP with AMMOUSE in nexuiz, imo. Im willing to code a "hook on laser" mod if someone can run a server testing it.

Point, but lets not forget, this dont have to be enabled by default or in all gamemodes.

Ok, let it be a cvar
Nexuiz is slowly becoming the swiss-armyknife of quake in game mods and weapon types.

I LIKE IT!

Xeno The Blind wrote:

TVR wrote:Let 'A' = Simple, old-school like deathmatch [Nexuiz]
Let 'B' = Gameplay focusing on: 'The art of [sic] Trix' [Warsow]

Perhaps you're not aware of it, but there is a growing number of players who focus primarily on breaking flag capture records. The movement techniques that they use are closer to the 'B' end of the spectrum and as such Nexuiz, despite it's official labelling as simple and old-school, is not such.

Irrelevant, CTF does not affect DM, DM, however, does affect CTF through weapon balancing, which is balanced on the requirements of DM first.

Xeno The Blind wrote:

TVR wrote:5/7 people are happy playing something, 1/7 is neutral, 1/7 is unhappy

You can please some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time?

TVR's edit wrote:If Nexuiz & Warsow were to remain distinct [Nexuiz = A, Warsow = B]
Person 1 would be happy playing Nexuiz [+1]
Person 2 would be happy playing Nexuiz [+1]
Person 3 would be happy playing Warsow [+1]
Person 4 would be happy playing Warsow [+1]
Perons 5 would be happy playing Nexuiz or Warsow [+1]

5/5 people are happy playing something.

Due to edit, your current comment is invalid.

Xeno The Blind wrote:

TVR wrote:If Nexuiz were to copy a KEY FEATURE OF WARSOW [Nexuiz = 1/2A+1/2B, Warsow = B]
Person 1 would be half as happy playing Nexuiz, neutral to Warsow features [+.5, +0 averages to +.25]
Person 2 would be unhappy playing Nexuiz or Warsow [-1]
Person 3 would be happy playing Warsow [+1]
Person 4 would be happy playing Warsow [+1]
Person 5 would be happy playing Nexuiz or Warsow [+1]
Person 6 would be neutral playing Nexuiz or Warsow [+0]
Person 7 would be unhappy playing Nexuiz or Warsow [-1]

FAIL
If you want to include averages, you should have done it in your calculation above, which would have led to Person 1 having a score of 0.5 rather than 1, ...

Xeno The Blind wrote:

TVR wrote:Sums to [.25-1+1+1+1+0-1] 1.25 based on the weighted scale. Less than half of if Nexuiz & Warsow were to remain distinct.

In light of the flawed logic employed above, this is no longer valid. I will let you submit a revision before I review your conclusion in depth as it is not my job to salvage whatever nuggets of logic that somehow found their way in there. Bye bye Erdos number.

Note Nexuiz is composed of 1/2A + 1/2B, rather than A+B, or 1/2A exclusively.

If Person 1 was half as happy that Nexuiz is now composed of only 1/2A, it would be averaged down to 0.25 because it is now only half of the gameplay, and he is indifferent to the main feature of Warsow.

Xeno The Blind wrote:... Person 2, using your [+1,0,-1] system, would like the A/2 aspect (+1/2) but dislike the B/2 aspect (-1/2), thus obtaining a happiness rating of 0. ...

Comment is invalid, due to assumption used, posted.

Xeno The Blind wrote:... Person 3 would still like the B aspect of Warsow (+1), but if you want to average, you have to consider that he would now also like the B/2 aspect of Nexuiz. ...

Xeno The Blind wrote:... That applies to Person 4, who would become neutral towards Nexuiz (which affects the score if you want to average, for whatever reason). ...

Does not need to even consider playing Nexuiz - Untainted Warsow still exists. [Nexuiz = 1/2A + 1/2B, Warsow = B]

This is the reason I underlined 'happy playing something'.

Xeno The Blind wrote:

TVR wrote:It does not matter if the ratio of certain attitude combinations is not equal, as in the comparison - If Nexuiz were to copy the key feature of Warsow, more people will not be happy.

It entirely depends on the attitude ratios. How can you even make such a claim? Did you not bother to scroll up and reread what you wrote?

Proof by exhaustion, if there merely exists someone similar to Person 1 or Person 2, more people WILL NOT BE happy.

Xeno The Blind wrote:... You make the assumption that the incorporation of a movement feature inspired by Warsow would render Nexuiz in large part a Warsow clone. I highly disagree, but that's a subjective matter. You don't see any way in which such a feature might be adapted to Nexuiz to better suit Nexuiz's style without fundamentally changing it. ...

Assumed half & half, due to how it is Warsow's main feature, more important than strong & weak ammo, and as advertised on Warsow's main page.

It would be redundant to do so anyway, the laser performs the functions of that 'special movement key' in Quake-like movement.

Xeno The Blind wrote:You appear to adopt a highly conservative view which by extension would lead to the opposition of new features, new game modes, etc.

Anything not expressly permitted by the constitution, or the equivalent info page on Nexuiz' older website, is relegated to second-thought for the main project.

Xeno The Blind wrote:All in all, it was put forward as a suggestion. If enough people like it, it may be worth pursuing. Despite your numerical revelations above, there is a chance that a majority of the Nexuiz community would appreciate such a feature and guide its adoption in a way that suits Nexuiz.

This is how the Unix philosophy relates to Nexuiz, Warsow, OpenArena, Tremulous, Sauerbraten and other FOSS:

One can use any combination of FOSS as they wish, Person 5 can play either Nexuiz or Warsow or even OpenArena, and be entertained by games enjoyed.

However if Nexuiz were to copy essentially half of Warsow.

Person 5 could still play either and be entertained.

But Person 1 & 2 would be less entertained, or even lacking entertainment now.

Xeno The Blind wrote:Many open source projects take their direction from the community around them. Should Nexuiz adopt such a feature, you could, as you stated above, just fork off.

This is the main project, with it's principles, and it's founding developers who will stick to the principles they, themselves, created.

tZork wrote:... A hook with limited range and as laser secondary does sound like a good idea to me ...

It would make no positive difference to CTF gameplay, which is currently skewed due to greater effort the pursuer must put in, compared to the escapee.

[Link to thread focusing on this, focus on first page: http://alientrap.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2820]

Consider a on-hand grappling hook as yet another factor the pursuer must match to follow, and only to follow the escapee.

-- (removed this post...) --

I like nexuiz
I like warsow
I'd dislike dash in Nexuiz.

But I pretty much dislike where this whole conversation goes.. and the attitude of it too

Hook on Laser alt? If the Laser alternate function (return to last weapon) is going to be replaced, then only by an alternate fire mode (i.e: negative force) and not the hook, please.

I dislike the idea of a dash button. If a feature like jumping off against walls was to be implemented then i would like to suggest merging it into the current jump button, but the laser already compensates for that.

tZork wrote:

TVR wrote:Trollz r uz

Xeno The Blind wrote:/me feeds the troll

Noone else is interested in your intellectual cockfight. Stop it plz, or be stopped.

On the contrary, several people have found it highly amusing

But anyway, I already stopped (that was the point of my "getting back on topic" post). I just won't read his posts.


Still though, it was funny.

Another -1 on the dash for nexuiz. It would make the game too damn fast, and make the gap between new players and experienced players even wider. I'm fairly average, but I can have fun with Nexuiz. In warsow I get utterly destroyed, because I can't do those movements nearly as well, and it can get very frustrating if players zoom by with 10 times your speed, and frag you before you can even start to aim.

oskar669 wrote:It would make the game too damn fast, and make the gap between new players and experienced players even wider.

Butt approves.
Same here, and that's exactly why I don't play Warsow, since you actually have to go training before you barely stand a chance against "usual players". In my first game of Nexuiz I was like: "Cool, it's feeling like UT99 and looks kinda similar. And fast. That's my new favorite."
And it still is.
Of course, dashing was in UT as well, but I feel more comfortable without it to be honest. These new double-jumps and wall-jumps which were added in UT2003 are just f****** ridiculous...
Nexuiz' concept is about back to basics, you should keep that in mind.

About the hook, uh... I think, my previous post was all I had to say on that topic I want a chain.

Lol, I haven't check the forum since yesterday and I find my self in stitches reading this work of art! Xeno, TVR... ... Lol. I've never seen such smart insults but still mean something

Bravo to both parties.


/End Thread Jack.
I really don't mind, maybe it could be an experimental server feature, div is good at those type of things Then make a new, Making a stand for 2.4.3 (Dash Key).

I like the idea of shortening the hook because:
- it provides more of a challenge
- it'll (hopefully) discourage hooking across entire maps
- sometimes I get the angle wrong and cross my fingers on it catching something further away. If it were to end at length x, I'd be able to better detect if my hook was going to catch or not

I don't like the dash because
- I don't feel it fits nexuiz
- we have a laser
- we have circle jumps

I like the wall kicks
- It adds a new dimension to the game
- it allows for more creative mapping / gameplay
- I am a ninja

I think wall jumping and dashing would seriously improve gameplay. For example, it would help check nexers, and help dodging rockets. It would also take some of the burden off of the laser, which is hard for newbies to use.

torus wrote:the burden off of the laser, which is hard for newbies to use.

burden, really? I love using the laser. If it's hard for n00bs, just add more buttons?? I disagree.

[-z-] wrote:

torus wrote:the burden off of the laser, which is hard for newbies to use.

burden, really? I love using the laser. If it's hard for n00bs, just add more buttons?? I disagree.

You twisted my words- I didn't say using the laser was a burden to use, I said it would take some movement off the laser- this would make the game more varied and help counter some of the more powerful weapons. I don't think the laser should be removed though.

Hello, was googling laser hook for quake 4 and came across your post with talks of coding this laser hook. I come from a mod in quake 2 called railwarz (www.railwarz.com) where we used laserhook and increased rail speed for instagib CTF. I saw something similiar happen in 3TCTF when ppl played it for Quake 3. Also CorkScrew Mod captured this very well also (http://fire.planetquake.gamespy.com/). Now I am interested in seeing it happen in Quake 4 (despite the small number of players). Please let me know if someone can check out this server (Q2: -=ACME-CTF ~ TMG Railwarz=- 66.36.243.128:27915).

Anyways, all that to say, that I am very interested in seeing a good laser hook coded. I thought I saw it once in quake 4 but could never find the server again.... anyhow, let me know if I'm in the right place or not. I would pay but I heard that's illegal. I saw you were searching for someone to put up a server for testing?... I will. Keep me posted.

I don't think you should shorten the grapple-hook because if you did you wouldn't be able to get the momentum needed to scale a building in capturecity! Even if it was configurable what would happen if you fell off Dance and the hook couldn't hook in time for you to fall! I really like the ability save myself at the last second and then fling up to the top of the map and land near some enemies!