ai wrote:

Dokujisan wrote:5) Crap... too many options... can't find the info that I want.

Choose one option, read through that, choose another, read through that and so on.

Or....just go to one place.

I always thought that the more places you can get info the better, as then you can verify some information with other places and find the info a lot faster.

That sounds like a whole lot of unnecessary work. You're telling me that if you had a choice between

a) one place with the information that you neeed


or

b) 6 places that collectively offer the information that you need


you would choose b)?

I don't believe you.

You have to be the first one that I've run into who has problem with too many options

I guess you haven't met enough people. Many sources is not the same thing as many "options". There is a difference. There is only one way to keep track of Nexuiz development. That means that there is one "option", and that is to scour all of the sources available. You cannot only track one source and expect to stay updated on Nexuiz development. You have to run through all of the sources (irc, wiki, svn, forum, etc) Something like a blog could fulfill the need to have one location where everyone goes to stay updated, providing regular updates (aka summaries) of development information.

...and so on.

I was thinking about a more complex and complete newsletter/blog solution. The blog should be maintained by a few people, and it could have different sections:
A.: official development

B.: Community buzz:
1.: News around home cooked levels, mods, models etc.
2.: What shadowy secrets are the Ninjaz up to at their dojo?
3.: Epic PB leave-your-brain-somewhere-else funfests
4.: Ladder matches, tourney reports
5.: Maybe interviews (?) with developers (developers developers developers) and regular players
6.: +18 section ("community prjocet" states )

I'd take part in this, but I won't do it alone (too big project for only one person)

haha, let's start with "nex.TV" again

btw: I am already working on a new project for nexuiz, most of your points are in a feature of the side.

->
1.: News around home cooked levels, mods, models etc.
2.: What shadowy secrets are the Ninjaz up to at their dojo?
4.: Ladder matches, tourney reports
5.: Maybe interviews (?) with developers (developers developers developers) and regular players
6.: +18 section ("community prjocet" states )

@C.Brutail: VERY good points, really !

Id like to visit this universal library of all knowledge and wisdom. who is s going to compile and maintain it?

If we are talking Alientrap's Nexuiz development progress its covered fairly well by the svn commit logs IMO. Maps and have their own sub forum here for everyone to browse. A blog where the devs would need to repeat their commit logs just sounds like a pile of unnecessary, tedious work IMO. If we go back to the example of the Cryliink, do you think toy would have realized that it would become a the issue that many think it is today? I hardly think this blog entry would contain "Made Crylink a over powered spam cannon". More likely it would be:

redesigned crylink primary, may need additional balancing
crylink primary now bounces once, and has a splash radius of 80 on each
bounce, it does not bounce if it hits a soft target, this means that
bouncing shots off the floor directly infront of a player can do about
50% more damage, and if you hit the floor to the side of a player you
can still do a little (about 50%) damage

And that "incidentally" what lordhavoc wrote when he committed this change.

That there are fifty eleven other forums where ppl post things related to nexuiz rather then whatever the forum was intended for is hardly something fixable by adding yet another information stream.

tZork wrote:That there are fifty eleven other forums where ppl post things related to nexuiz rather then whatever the forum was intended for is hardly something fixable by adding yet another information stream.

Exactly what I was about to write.
So to Doku: If you have tons of options, and have a problem with that, why would you want to add another one which would require more work from the devs, and basically have the same function as these forums?

tZork wrote:That there are fifty eleven other forums where ppl post things related to nexuiz rather then whatever the forum was intended for is hardly something fixable by adding yet another information stream.

Fail.

This is unlike the current streams of information. This would be something that filters and funnels information from the other information streams. It's not "yet another" anything because there's nothing currently like it. The closest thing is the Development wiki, but that still isn't the same.

ai wrote:Exactly what I was about to write.
So to Doku: If you have tons of options, and have a problem with that, why would you want to add another one which would require more work from the devs, and basically have the same function as these forums?

ai, I'm not the only one that has a problem with too many sources of development information.

Imagine if I were to tell you a story, but instead of telling you the story in one book, I decided to cut up the story into a dozen pieces and spread it around in different places around the city. In order to get the full story, you have to go to every location in the city to collect all of the pieces to assemble them into a full book. This is the problem with having too many sources, because they are each limited.

Then imagine this story gets updated nearly everyday. So everyday, you have to go through each of the areas of the city to get the complete updates to the story.

I mentioned the concept of a funnel. Did you read that part? To my knowledge, there isn't any current communication tool that is acting as a funnel for Nexuiz development information. It's all split up all over the place.

The forum is like a garbage bin that things get throw into and hardly ever seen again. To gleen development information from the forum, you have to sort through all of the unrelated topics and hope that the sticky threads cover what you are looking for. That is not even close to ideal. It's not very functional.

Wow.... I feel like I'm doing a big song and dance here just to prove to you that the sky is blue. Really, guys....the sky is blue. Trust me on that. Just look upward.

I certainly think a blog is a good idea. As I already wrote.
SVN logs is not really good either. Most stuff div0 writes needs an interpreter anyways ;P

I'm also willing to contribute to such a blog. Together we are strong.

Dokujisan wrote:I mentioned the concept of a funnel.

Oh, now I understand those funnel pictures. Before now I had no idea why you posted those so I just ignored them.

But nevertheless, even you you want to admit it or not, adding a blog will still be 'yet another source of information', you cannot deny that. Possibly a good one, or even the 'best' one depending on how well maintained that is.
However, I still stand by my idea that if you will go fourth with this blog idea, you still need the devs to coop with you, and div didn't like that so that's one down. However, I also have another proposal to make that will kinda resemble a blog and that is to use the resources we already have without creating more work. That is to use these forums.
Why not just create a section on these forums where the devs (or moderators i.e. the 'reporters' I mentioned earlier) can fill out info about the development. There's already a 'Nexuiz - Development' section, why not fully use that? Though I think a whole new section would be more feasible, for the simple reason that there is a sticky thread which is locked. It brings up all the info that the devs/reporters type in, then if someone wants to comment on that they create a new thread and a discussion is on the way.

I don't think there's a worry that there will be tons of threads by every single person cause those thread will just end up (even less) than what the comments would have been on the blog.

OR, yet another idea. Why not just create a blog at blogspot.com and be done with it without any work whatsoever?

There's really no need in creating more work before all the resources that are available to you have been fully taken advantage off.

I think you have to keep your audience in mind. If you want more involvement of the regular Nexuiz player then you need something along the lines Doku is proposing. Instead of everyone having to dig through the different sources of info you could have 2 or 3 people doing that, put that into a blog of some sort and have that as the general Nexuiz development/community info 'booth'.

Concerning changes in the engine, it does not even have to be a dev, just somebody who knows where to look and how to interpret what he reads.

So, in short, I think this is a good idea :}

Thanks to divVerent:
http://svn.icculus.org/nexuiz/trunk/cha ... iew=markup

A start..

ok, raise your hands if you knew this little piece was in development:

http://www.leela.org.uk/nexuiz/?action= ... 000029.jpg

I only found out about it from hanging out in IRC.

This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. This could have been mentioned on a Nexuiz developer blog.

Dokujisan wrote:ok, raise your hands if you knew this little piece was in development:

http://www.leela.org.uk/nexuiz/?action= ... 000029.jpg

I only found out about it from hanging out in IRC.

This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. This could have been mentioned on a Nexuiz developer blog.

Or the forum, either in 'Pics of what your doing' or 'vids of what your doing' or just start a new thread in the Nexuiz - Development, or Nexuiz - Editing categories. See how easy :p No extra work creating a blog and wasting time.

ai, you've got to be intentionally ignoring my responses to your comments. You've mentioned this point half a dozen times on this thread and I've responded to it.

There is nothing easy about having to dig through a forum to stay updated on development stuff. It is quite obvious that using the forum to stay updated on development projects just doesn't work. The information specific to development needs to be summarized and funneled into one location. This is to improve communication. It would be a little bit of effort on the part of a handful of people in the community and the resulting increase in communication efficiency could be dramatic. No more sorting through 5 different sources to find information. No more having to scan IRC logs, or SVN logs, or Forum threads. Those systems are not designed as quick update mechanisms. That is what blogs are used for. Fast, efficient updates. Short summaries. Hand-selected content. To-the-point. No sorting needed.

I frequent the forums multiple times per day and I didn't know about this chat interface project until yesterday. Can you point out where it was mentioned on the forum? If it was posted, then I missed it.

Esteel didn't know about it. He thought that screenshot was only a mockup when it turns out that it's actually a functioning chat interface.

Did you catch that? I'm talking about esteel. You can't dismiss that. It's not like he's a misinformed casual nexer. He is the author of a lot of the sticky threads on the forum. He is one of the most informed people in the Nexuiz community on Nexuiz development, or just about anything Nexuiz related, and he didn't even know about this project.

Developer Blog = funnel and filter

Funnel - Grabbing stuff from multiple sources and bringing it into one location

Filter - Translating into something more understandable, removing unnecessary information, summarizing, editing.

Those two functions are why it is an improvement over existing methods of getting updates on development activity.

Here's an example of how this would work, with the example project that I just mentioned (that chat interface thing).


1) In IRC, a user named "under_wraps" posts a link and says "hey everybody, this is something that I'm working on and it has some bugs but it's close to being done." He explains some of the bugs, and also mentions that Div is working on the project with him. He provides a screenshot of the chat interface.

2) Someone (perhaps me, perhaps esteel, perhaps c.brutail...) collects this information from IRC and summarizes it into a short paragraph and submits a blog entry.

3) Various people in the community who want to stay updated on Nexuiz development (many of which don't hang out in IRC or scan IRC logs everyday) are see the blog entry appear on their RSS feed reader and go "wow, that's neat".

Yes my dear Doku, I do read your comments. But you have to understand mine.
So first off.
You don't really need to dig through many threads in the forums and search them if they are sticky. Basically, making a sticky thread that would serve as a blog, lock it so no one can post in it (if they want to comment feel free to create a new discussion thread), and then just post a new post whenever you have something to say. Then it WILL be funnled, it WILL be in one location, no need to go to IRC or SVN or logs, see?

Second, no that guy who made that made that stuff on the screenshot didn't post it anywhere as far as I can recall, but so what? He probably wouldn't post it in a blog either, and I believe he posted in on IRC is so that he could get feedback realtime. I don't know, maybe he just felt like sharing that who knows. The point is, if he didn't post it anywhere, be it in a forum or blog, then of course no one would know about it. Don't give me flac for his doings.

And thirdly, you basically described the ordeal of what I've been saying before. I'm not particularly against this blog (voted for the 'Sounds useful but I doubt it could be maintained' option), but what I said is that if this blog would come to life it should not be maintained by the devs nor should the devs blog about these things (unless they of course wanted to). But the ones who should blog are the Nexuiz reporters, volunteers from the community who knows something about the stuff that the devs bring up i.e. translating the SVN logs to understandable and easily read English, explaining technical terms and possibly explaining some rcon commands if they are new and whatnot. Stuff like that.

And basically, the third statement I do (above) is what you practically have just explained how this blog would work. So, what's the argument? Anyway, possible name for the blog and the Nexuiz reporters are 'Nexuiz Frontier'

ai wrote:You don't really need to dig through many threads in the forums and search them if they are sticky. Basically, making a sticky thread that would serve as a blog, lock it so no one can post in it (if they want to comment feel free to create a new discussion thread), and then just post a new post whenever you have something to say. Then it WILL be funnled, it WILL be in one location, no need to go to IRC or SVN or logs, see?

You're talking about having one sticky thread instead of having a blog?
What would be the point of that? It would then just be a less-functional replacement for a blog but with the same amount of effort needed to maintain it. Why not just have a blog? Forums are for discussion. Blogs are for updates.

Second, no that guy who made that made that stuff on the screenshot didn't post it anywhere as far as I can recall

Case in point. This one slipped past you, me and esteel.

http://www.forums.alientrap.local/viewtopic.php?t=3415

but so what? He probably wouldn't post it in a blog either

He wouldn't need to.

Don't give me flac for his doings.

I'm not giving you flac for his doings. I'm giving you flac for ignoring obvious flaws in the current communication process and shooting down an idea before fully understanding what is being proposed. I've always thought this community has a bad habit of shooting down ideas very quickly instead of trying to look for potential in new ideas and helping to develop them. This is the biggest difference that I see between the alientrap forum and the nexuiz ninjaz forum.

I'm not particularly against this blog

You could have fooled me.

You've been pointing out reasons why you think the blog is a wasted effort throughout this thread, and why it is beneficial to have half a dozen places to gather information instead of one.

You know another great feature about blogs?

Keyword tags.

So if I wanted to find all of the CSQC projects, I could click on that tag within the tag cloud to see the entries tagged with "CSQC".

Dokujisan wrote:I'm not giving you flac for his doings. I'm giving you flac for ignoring obvious flaws in the current communication process and shooting down an idea before fully understanding what is being proposed. I've always thought this community has a bad habit of shooting down ideas very quickly instead of trying to look for potential in new ideas and helping to develop them. This is the biggest difference that I see between the alientrap forum and the nexuiz ninjaz forum.

You've been pointing out reasons why you think the blog is a wasted effort throughout this thread, and why it is beneficial to have half a dozen places to gather information instead of one.

I've never suggested that we should have half a dozen places to gather information (only that it's good to have multiple sources), I've been suggesting to use the resources that are currently available to us, and in this case it's these forums, and I've only been talking about these forums in anagram to the blog.

I do fully understand what is being proposed, trust me. However, what you fail to see is that yes, creating a blog WILL create yet another 'source' and another 'place' to get information. I know that you say it will be the main place to get information from. But what you also fail to see that this forum could be used as such, and even to a better extent if wisely executed.
Meaning, in a blog you can really only give comments, and responding to comments and comments comments will create confusion for some people. In this forum you can BOTH have a 'blog'-type thing AND discuss the stuff being taken up in the 'blog'-thing.
If you have a blog, taking up some dev news and you want to discuss, you would still need to create a thread about that in these forums.

What's so different than having a blog and posting stuff there and having a forum sticky which is locked and post stuff here?
Yes, I do agree that some ideas are being shot down, but other ideas also need more consideration before being seriously executed, while other options that are already available to the community are being taken into account.
A blog would most likely need more maintenance, if it is in the same way the Nexuiz site and the Nexuiz ladder site are done. Green Marine and morfar are maintaining the ladder, while green (last I checked at least) maintained the Nexuiz site, could be wrong about that, don't really know. And a blog would probably be the same thing there, so being in these forums would be less of an effort, one less place to be concerned about.

Now of course, I don't know your idea for this blog, but what I have in mind is a totally new site, if so maintenance will be needed. If I'm wrong please state your vision of this blog so I fully understand how you intend it.

To be honest, I've only ONCE been on the Nexuiz ninja forums, and I was there for at tops 2 minutes. I never saw the point in creating another forum for Nexuiz and dividing the already small community in two. So I only spend time on these official forums, I have no idea what goes on over at that other place. It was also created at a time where the Nexuiz community was even smaller than it is today, so that only made fail to see the point ever so more.
Today, I just don't want to spend extra time on two forums for the same topic. Going here, checking and replying to some threads, and then going over there. It's extra work and I don't want to waste my time. Many people also think like I do.

Now I'm not saying this blog thing is a bad idea, it's actually a really good one, it's the execution of this blog that is in question.

EDIT: Just saw your last post which wasn't there before. I have a simple solution, the search function on these forums. It's very useful and would principle be the same thing, has helped me tons of times and I bet tons more to come.

To be honest, I've only ONCE been on the Nexuiz ninja forums, and I was there for at tops 2 minutes. I never saw the point in creating another forum for Nexuiz and dividing the already small community in two.

People on that forum don't shoot down ideas so easily. IMO, that is the reason that community even exists. They are more supportive of ideas and want to further them. People on the alientrap forum more often tend to shoot down ideas like it's a sport, and that has disappointed me to a large degree over the past two years that I've been playing Nexuiz.

I consider Nexuiz Ninjaz to be a more progressive sub-community of the overall Nexuiz Community because of this reason. Unfortunately, the Nexuiz devs are not a part of this sub-community. I wish they were. Sometimes, there is a part of me that wishes Nexuiz would fork, because I believe more could be done. There are people in the community that could be better utilized to help further Nexuiz. But there is so much resistance to new ideas around here.

The truth is that I hate making suggestions on this forum, because they always result in some ridiculously unproductive conversation like we're currently having. At this point, regardless of the voting poll tilting in favor of this developer blog, I don't expect this project to be supported by the Nexuiz core community, so it will likely end up as another Nexuiz Ninjaz supported project.

I do fully understand what is being proposed, trust me.

No. you keep saying that, but then you contradict yourself. I don't think you fully grasp what is being proposed.

However, what you fail to see is that yes, creating a blog WILL create yet another 'source' and another 'place' to get information. I know that you say it will be the main place to get information from. But what you also fail to see that this forum could be used as such, and even to a better extent if wisely executed.

A funnel/filter mechanism collects content from existing sources, thus replacing them for those who merely want a summary. It is not comparable to other sources. It is not "yet another" because it is in a different class. For many people, it replaces those other sources because it's a different mechanism for delivery of information. It's more organized. It's more concise. It's like comparing a cargo ship and a tug boat. Yeah, they both float on water, but they have different uses.

What's so different than having a blog and posting stuff there and having a forum sticky which is locked and post stuff here?

I've already answered that...a lot, but I will add to it. A sticky thread should really contain a message specific to the forum that it is in. A sticky thread shouldn't be a replacement for a knowledgebase, a wiki or a blog. Other mechanisms handle those functions in a better way and allow the information to be subdivided by keywords, allow for comments to be made without getting in the way of the content, they don't fill up the top of a forum with tons of threads which causes people to have to scroll past to get to the new threads, etc.

I do think the "comment on this blog entry" option should (or could) link to a topic under the Alientrap development forum. So each blog entry would automatically create a new topic on the forum for comments. Not a sticky thread.

If you want to go further with the idea, the blog entry (and the discussion thread) could both link to an entry on the Nexuiz Wiki to house additional details at length about whatever that project is. Each of those three entities would have separate functions.

Blog = quick summary.
Forum = Discussion.
Wiki = Knowledgebase.

But that's an ideal scenario.

Now I'm not saying this blog thing is a bad idea, it's actually a really good one, it's the execution of this blog that is in question.

If you thought it was a good idea, you wouldn't be making suggestions like using a sticky thread on a forum.

EDIT: Just saw your last post which wasn't there before. I have a simple solution, the search function on these forums.

The search function of this forum, quite frankly, sucks. I'm usually more successful in using google site:alientrap.org to find things on here. Even so, forum searching is not the same thing as a tag system. They function differently.

Now of course, I don't know your idea for this blog, but what I have in mind is a totally new site, if so maintenance will be needed. If I'm wrong please state your vision of this blog so I fully understand how you intend it.

I like the idea of a complete information repository for Nexuiz, which could include something like a blog. The community already spawned a knowledgebase in OUNS, but OUNS only exists because the official WIKI isn't maintained. IMO, all of these side projects should be absorbed into the core of the neuxiz.org site...but that just does not happen.


I was just discussing this with pavlvs on the nexuiz.ninjaz IRC channel....

17:24 Doku-Work> I'm playing around with dokuwiki and I'm liking it quite a bit so far
17:24 Doku-Work> it would be a nice replacement for OUNS
17:25 pavlvs|ATwork>
17:25 pavlvs|ATwork> :o
17:25 Doku-Work> or the alientrap wiki...or both
17:25 pavlvs|ATwork> heh
17:25 pavlvs|ATwork> you think ouns needs replacing?
17:25 pavlvs|ATwork> laientrap i can see
17:25 Doku-Work> yeah
17:25 Doku-Work> the guy who runs it (I always forget his name) even told me that he always thought ouns would be a temporary thing
17:25 pavlvs|ATwork> 4m/amoebios
17:25 Doku-Work> and that he expected something else to replace it later on
17:26 pavlvs|ATwork> ah interesting
17:26 pavlvs|ATwork> thing is, he does a ridiculously good job of it
17:26 Doku-Work> I like a lot of the dokuwiki features
17:26 Doku-Work> it has a blog plugin
17:27 Doku-Work coughs
17:27 kamar_> ....
17:27 pavlvs|ATwork> :D::DD::D:DD
17:27 Doku-Work>
17:27 kamar_>
17:27 pavlvs|ATwork> when can i starttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt
17:27 pavlvs|ATwork> i really want to do this
17:27 pavlvs|ATwork> (if i havent made that clear )
17:28 pavlvs|ATwork> devblogdevblogdevblog
17:29 Doku-Work>
17:29 Doku-Work> Here's what the blog display looks like by default
17:29 Doku-Work> http://demo.chimeric.de/plugin:blog
17:31 Doku-Work> if there were an official Nexuiz wiki, then OUNS wouldn't be needed, and various people from the community (including amebios) could help maintain it
17:31 Doku-Work> I mean a proper official nexuiz wiki
17:31 Doku-Work> and if it were done using dokuwiki, then you would have your dev blog
17:32 Doku-Work> would = could
17:32 pavlvs|ATwork> <3
17:32 Doku-Work> dokuwiki doesn't use a database, so it's incredibly easy to setup
17:33 Doku-Work> I set it up in about 3 minutes, and an additional 30 minutes to browse through plugins and install them
17:33 Doku-Work> http://www.dokuwiki.org/plugins
17:33 Doku-Work> I personally don't like a completely open wiki system
17:34 Doku-Work> but there is a captcha plugin and a moderator acceptance plugin for guests adding content, or you could just only allow specific users to submit to certain pages
17:35 Doku-Work> it has plugins for youtube vids, flash media player, javascript gallery display (lightbox), etc
17:36 Doku-Work> and it has the name "doku" in it...so it must be cool

I'm agreeing with doku here. We have so many bikeshed arguments here, and I'm really starting to get sick of it.

Anybody who thinks a blog is a bad idea knows nothing about how open source projects function, and therefore should be quiet in these kinds of threads. The user isn't always right, and a line has to be drawn somewhere.

What we need a dictator. This person will decide what is best for the game, and someone who is willing to step into a thread and say "ok, this idea has potential. If you guys don't figure it out amongst yourselves in X days, I'll decide for you, and you have to live with my decision".

We also need a real bug tracker. Something that patches can be submitted to, tickets can be associated with milestones, and tasks can be assigned to devs. This way, we have a clear idea of what's going on, what is planned for each release, and what each release's target date of completion is.

This is just getting out of hand, and I don't want it to get to the point where Nexuiz has to be forked. That would just waste everyone's time. So, if the developers (NOT THE USERS) would like to comment on my idea, please speak now.

Doku, I don't think I've ever seen you fight so hard for something.

I completely agree with the three of the statements.
1. We need a blog
2. People on the AT forums shoot ideas down
3. We need someone to take charge (like a dev)

Psychcf and Dokujisan both make great points. Some people on these forums really need to look at how critical they are.

Doku, I approve your idea (not that my two cents matter )

Dokujisan wrote:

I do fully understand what is being proposed, trust me.

No. you keep saying that, but then you contradict yourself. I don't think you fully grasp what is being proposed.

Open your mind just a tad (with a tad I mean a lot) Dok. I DO, and I say it again just in case you already forgot, I DO and I DO understand what you mean. I DO understand this blog idea but YOU apparently do NOT understand ME. I have never contradicted myself even once during this whole convo, I think you should look into what contradiction really means.
Anyway, with opening you mind I say, take a look around you. This forum CAN be used as the main place to get info. It's actually you who have a bad attitude against critiques and suggestions to your ideas. Yes we shoot down ridiculous ideas and stuff people come up with that are not needed.
However, this blog, if you haven't noticed, hasn't been shot down. Esteel and Green marine like it, many other people do, including me.
No matter what you tell yourself but adding a blog WILL add to the 'sources', it's like you're trying to deny that the sky exists. However (notice the 'however'), HOW this source is used is different, I've said that before and I just said that again.
In that manner, TAKING one of such sources and MAKING it into a funnel, it's the exact same thing only that it doesn't add to that count.

Anyway, I'm getting tired of this convo as you have such a twisted way to see the reality and are blind even to the most simple and logical things. I just don't wanna repeat myself to someone who tells people what they actually know and do not know, when he doesn't even know.

PS. Have you ever stopped and wondered WHY people shot down certain ideas?

Psychcf wrote:Anybody who thinks a blog is a bad idea knows nothing about how open source projects function, and therefore should be quiet in these kinds of threads.

You kidding me? I hope you don't really believe that. I know what an open source project is and how it functions.
Another person coming and telling others that he knows better what they are thinking and knowing than they themselves.

"Anyone who thinks god doesn't exist knows nothing about the truth and religion, and therefore should be shot."
This is exactly a copy of your statement above. Your statement is false and if you don't know it then it's you who should be quiet.

Psychcf wrote:What we need a dictator.

Exactly what the open source projects needs, a one man leader who decides everything which everyone should be deciding. You just contradicted yourself there my friend.

---

So, what have we learned?
I have learned that, no matter what happens, this blog thing most likely will come to see light. However, who maintains it and adds to these blog posts most likely won't be a dev. Meaning, this blog will turn out like OUNS, yet another unofficial place to get info for Nexuiz. Unless it's actually the devs, or someone officially appointed from the devs to be a reporter for them steps up, this will, no matter how you see it or what you're trying to tell yourself, be yet another unofficial source place.

Good luck, and in the future, please try to see why people shoot you down.

first off, tracker is here:
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81584
has been for some time.

Sometimes, there is a part of me that wishes Nexuiz would fork, because I believe more could be done.

By all means, forked or not, you are always free to do any changes your heart. head or other body part desires. So plz do, im looking forward to checking out these changes. In the meanwhile the few ppl actually making things happen are busy preparing the next release. Its easy to sprout ideas and support em when you don't have to be the one realizing them. But since all the sources you need are available to anyone, if you believe enough in some idea even when others don't you can do it yourself.

SCNR

Anybody who thinks a blog is a bad idea knows nothing about how open source projects function

what the... f/oss projects had been around for a good many years before some cyberfag renamed hes guest book to "blog" in a futile attempt to be cool. how the the [insert profanity here] can you see any kinda validity in this argument?

[rant]
Let me share my thought on this subject of "to blog or not to blog ".

For the purpose of listing development changes, a forum, news feed, mail list, blog, or a textile publicly accessible... is the the same thing. information. or rather information channels. This is similar to the "Damn, 50 TV channels and nothing to watch". more channels when the content is not enough to fill the current channels are not the way to make things better (anyone whanna watch the 97135th re-run of M.A.S.H. tonight?).

If the information at hand is hard to manage due to it being scathed over many sources, organised in nature etc what's needed is either a system that can sort and compose teh information or a system that _replaces_ (some of) the other.

Only if the Information available is already sorted and distinct and saturating current channels a new one is needed.

another thing to remember is regardless how you reshape the channels, flow, access forms etc. of information, your still dealing with the same ppl as its source/receiver. if they hated your idea of a diaper launcher before a blog, its a good bet they'll still hate it after a blog.
[/rant]

For the purpose of listing development changes, a forum, news feed, mail list, blog, or a textile publicly accessible... is the the same thing.

If I'm gonna haul dirt, I'm gonna use a pickup truck instead of a hatchback, even though they both have wheels and a motor. The details and differences matter.

ai, I know why people so quickly shoot down ideas in the nexuiz community, and it's not because the ideas are always bad. I've seen lots of very good ideas get shot down. It's a common mentality that exists in this community, and it's unhealthy.

I think this topic is dead now. I hope it wasn't a waste of time and gets some gears in motion. Only time will tell.

ai wrote:

Psychcf wrote:What we need a dictator.

Exactly what the open source projects needs, a one man leader who decides everything which everyone should be deciding. You just contradicted yourself there my friend.

No, I haven't. Every project needs a leader. Maybe 'dictator' has negative connotation, but the meaning remains the same.

As for the comments about the blog not having to to with OSS, here's what I think.

There's three parts of a successful OSS project. Making improvements, fixing bugs, and publicity (letting the public know about what you're doing). Most projects have some sort of blog (or something that has the same functionality, forum, etc) that digests development activity completely. This is important, because otherwise users may think nothing is happening.

Nexuiz doesn't have a dedicated forum for this (or the users don't treat it as such), so the stuff documenting development activity gets mixed in with feature requests and other stuff.

So the solution would ether be to restrict thread creation to moderators, or to create a blog and leave the development forum as-is. If we go with forum restriction, we should have a script pull from that forum's feed and display it on the front page, as well as putting that feed as a link somewhere.

@Psychcf:
I meant that the contradiction you made was based on whole your post, not just that line.
I know projects needs leaders, I if anyone should know this (being a 3D artist, working with projects for work, communities and other development projects). I know what you meant with a 'dictator' but the term and the word you used is wrong. Instead you might want to say what Nexuiz need is democracy, and frankly that's what is has. A dictator doesn't listen to anyone but does as he pleases, gives orders and just go on with his stuff. A leader does not act like a dictator, cause he in fact does take the advice from others and also sometimes lets other people vote.

That's why I said you contradicted yourself.

Dokujisan wrote:ai, I know why people so quickly shoot down ideas in the nexuiz community, and it's not because the ideas are always bad. I've seen lots of very good ideas get shot down. It's a common mentality that exists in this community, and it's unhealthy.

I think this topic is dead now. I hope it wasn't a waste of time and gets some gears in motion. Only time will tell.

I think thats not true.. as i mentioned in an other topic, people need to be sure about a thing to put lots of work and hours into it. If ideas get judged by others they can prove themselfs to be worth working on.
Despite i think people like divVerent showed support for your idea and he presented the current state of the development via the new file changes-since-last-version which IS/will be updated as Nexuiz goes its way to the next version and i pointed you to a link that will always show the current version of that file! Its a good way to stay informed about what is new and needs testing on some of the svn test servers!
As for stuff being done by others AI mentioned that for example the chat dialog was not even shown in the 'screenshots of what you are doning' thread or at least it was missed by several people on irc/forum. I agree that it would be nice to get people to share info on what they are doing but i also agree that having too many places to look for would be bad.

And why do you stick so close to your idea with the blog? Why not just use the ouns wiki or the nexuiz wiki (or ask for the pwd for the alientrap wiki) and start with a simple page? They already exist and sometimes people just need to be pointed to something to use it. Despite people only have limited time, why not just start with an small page in one of the wikis and copy/paste most the info from this thread there? I"m sure people would help then. Wikis can be edited by several people and thus are clearly better for this then a forum post but i see no reason to think blog all the way just because its a cool word..

I think you might mistake critique for an attack on your idea. The idea is good, making sure its easier to be informed about what new and what people work on. Other people pointed out that there are already several ways to stay informed or that some should try a bit harder to inform others.
Maybe this discussion shows that some of the 'ways to stay informed' need to be shut down and a new one started (be it a blog or wiki or what ever). Or maybe simply that there is currently noone with enough time to do it and there needs to be someone to stepup and start with it.

Beg your pardon but this thread is anything but dead!