This thread is full of people not seeing the bigger picture. Wasting time on details that have already been addressed. Filling up the thread with repetitive doubt and bullshit.

Let me just clarify something to you want to be internet experts. I would consider Dokujisan much more knowledge in the field of web development and internet marketing than half you dolts who reply with your "I thinks". LEAVE IT TO THE EXPERTS.

Your shitty attitudes are just fueling the discouraging feeling most of us get when even trying to SUGGEST an idea. "It'll never work". Why because you're a pessimistic bitch? Bring something to the table other than your negativity or just keep your thoughts to yourself because YOU AREN'T HELPING THE PROBLEM.

"omg, just use the forum"

If you took your head out of your ass and focused your eyes on the first page of this thread, I already addressed this fact.



So, now that I got that off my chest. I'd like to study what I consider to be one of the largest contributors to many of the topics we've been arguing about.

Poor Management.

As far as I can tell, there is no real direction of the project. The official wiki is a crappy out of date, poor SEO, unmaintained piece of crap. The only "road maps" I can think of are the dev wiki, divVerents head or the svn commit log which some of you argue is "good enough". Which if you like living inside a closed box, I guess it is. But on the internet, if you're trying to promote an open source project. The chances someone will stumble upon the svn URL are slim to none if they are searching for a term like "recent nexuiz changes".

Everyone can go on thinking there isn't an issue but I think it's pretty clear that for a game this good, 2000 people in 3 years (forum members) is a little low.

Maybe we should rethink and listen to what Dokujisan has to say while he still has energy left to say it before he gets worn out from ingesting the heavy bullshit you're all trying to feed him.

having a look at the poll result, I don't understand why you guys are arguing anyway. The majority has spoken.

Ok Z. Now what you did was unnecessary. This thread is full of people not seeing the bigger picture? What do you really know that others know? Just because someone doesn't happen to agree with you you call them stupid and call them names and just go out and attack them without having proper arguments? Be civil, this is still a friendly forum, and to my belief up to know, a friendly although passionate argument.

Now I do not know what Doku is doing for a living, if he is a marketing person, both IRL and Internet, but with that I can also ask you if you know anything about the other people. If you don't you really shouldn't accuse them for anything, and certainly not call them bitches. I am also a web developer among many other things I do.

As for my case, I have listed the problems I see with this blog and I've come up with possible solutions, I've seen others do that too. Have you even read the posts?
But as to your point in your post, I honestly don't see it more than bashing and attacking people for no good reason. The only thing I got from your post is that you support Doku's idea.

My second point is the arguments were wasting time and my third point is there is poor management of these ideas.

[-z-] wrote:This thread is full of people not seeing the bigger picture. Wasting time on details that have already been addressed. Filling up the thread with repetitive doubt and bullshit.

And your pissing ppl off. Always a good idea make ppl angry.. err. Grow up.

[-z-] wrote:Let me just clarify something to you want to be internet experts. I would consider Dokujisan much more knowledge in the field of web development and internet marketing than half you dolts who reply with your "I thinks". LEAVE IT TO THE EXPERTS.

Right, even if this is true, and with that tantrum of a response rather then a sane argumentative one i doubt it. This is not a technical discussion, field expertise don't enter into it. Sure if/when its time to implement a solution such experience is valuable, or in form of suggesting other options that may be unknown or overlooked so far.

Dokujisan wrote:

For the purpose of listing development changes, a forum, news feed, mail list, blog, or a textile publicly accessible... is the the same thing.

If I'm gonna haul dirt, I'm gonna use a pickup truck instead of a hatchback, even though they both have wheels and a motor. The details and differences matter.

ai, I know why people so quickly shoot down ideas in the nexuiz community, and it's not because the ideas are always bad. I've seen lots of very good ideas get shot down. It's a common mentality that exists in this community, and it's unhealthy.

I think this topic is dead now. I hope it wasn't a waste of time and gets some gears in motion. Only time will tell.

When i compare these info flows i do so because they are all fairly simple one-way flows. By your logic any similarity or shared feature makes two things the same. And yes, if i where going to haul some dirt once a week and i already had a hatchback i sure would not go purchase a new pickup to do that.

Now with that said, i don't thinks its a bad idea to make thinks better (duh) i just don't agree a blog is the way to do it, and nothing in this thread has convinced me otherwise. Personally i like the idea of a wiki much better, a community project to build, and better, a information database without the tediousness of looking thought a five mile forum/blog/... list. True there are both OUNS and the awkward nexuiz wiki, and both (the latter in particular) are not to developed. OUNS does show a small taste of what it could be thou, hell i even found some of my old stuff that i lost from my local commuter there

But seriously guys... I haven't got time (yet) to read through all theese fancy posts you've written, but I fear you're all arguing about nothing.
What Doku would like to see is some kinda community project, for the community. Similar to the Nexuiz Ninjaz or Xeno's Nexuiz guides, but those are all focusing on the technical side of the game.
I don't think the "developer blog" name is a good idea, I think that the "developer" (developers developers developers...) part was the confusing. I don't think Doku wanted div0 or esteel or Blub or [insert random developer's name here] should commit to these blogs. They are alreadysacrificing too much of their free time for the game (and for us, the gamers).
No, I think it's time we, the gaming community should do another step, like the Ninjaz did or Xeno or Shaggy. A few volunteerers should get toghether, and write articles about the buzz going around in the community in a few days by few days period of time. We'd funnel [(c) by Dokujisan] the news, and represent them in a few sentences long reports. eg. building svn, trying it, reporting the new features, keeping a sharp eye on the ladder and writing a few words about the matches (maybe this way the ladder gets even more attention), or wathing the editing part of the forum etc.

And about the question, that is what's the use of this... well... imho it's just like with Xeno's site or the Ninjaz: execatly nothing, if you don't use it. But they've done it, and proven to by handy, so why not start another NEWS oriented page? I honestly think this conversation goes nowhere, as soon as we don't try it. I say shut up, and write, volunteer and we'll see what'll come out of this. If someone likes it, they'll use it, if not, then oh well, it hasn't hurt anybody, so why not do it?

Btw. Fisume! has already sent me a mockup about the site (which I pretty much don't like, but that's ok ), but at least the news team is already forming. Like I said, I don't think there's a point in arguing or even talking about the necesserity about the news blog.
Imho enough of the talking, that goes nowhere. JUST DO IT.

I here now volunteer to the project.
Who's joining?

yeah! Enough of debating about it lets do it. We could sit around talking about it. Someone needs to get the ball rolling, lets get the snowball to grow ( patten pending, shaggy ).

Yes I am volunteering to be a part of this.

A quick list of things that must (in my view) be in the blog
1. Ladder Match results
2. Clan match results
(... almost turning into a news station)
3. Nexuiz clans - a growing part of the community
4. Nexuiz mods how they work etc
5. New features the devs are working on.

There could even be a nexuiz newsletter the blog would give a good start to it.
I hope I helped a little.

btw, thanks for the mention

thanks for the list shaggy

Btw. Fisume! has already sent me a mockup about the site (which I pretty much don't like, but that's ok ), but at least the news team is already forming.

I'll ask around in irc. I am sure -z- or Green can give me some tips

shaggy wrote:A quick list of things that must (in my view) be in the blog
1. Ladder Match results
2. Clan match results
(... almost turning into a news station)
3. Nexuiz clans - a growing part of the community
4. Nexuiz mods how they work etc
5. New features the devs are working on.

If it's going to be a site like that I hardly believe it is a 'blog'. That's actually the most ridiculous thing I've heard so far. I don't necessary disagree with the list, but the name 'blog' for such a site. It would be the FIRST to be called like that and also people would point and laugh. It's a community site, a fan site or whatever else you wanna call it.

Anyway to my actual point:
To Shaggy and Brutail, I think you missed the point in the argument (so yes, please read up Brutail ). The point was not, 'why don't we just do it', the point is that people don't want to waste their time on something that could potentially fail and go nowhere. I mean I would also like to contribute somehow, but not unless I'm positive my time won't go to waste. I wasted so much of it on pointless projects before and I don't do that anymore. And as long as this is a 'blog' I will never have confidence in this project unless it's almost but complete. I like the 'wiki' idea instead of the forum (the forum was one example and tried to make a point with that).

But yeah, even if creating another site with those things Shaggy listed, it still would be 'another source'. See Doku, you cannot get away from that
Don't you think that if a site like that was to be created couldn't the existing sites make something out of it? Possibly the official Nexuiz site or ninjas or xeno? I don't know, I'm just speculating so no need to hammerjack me for this suggestion. I still don't really know how you guys have planned this and want to go about it so.
But furthermore, I agree with tZork, I pretty much see the things as he does.

I understand the fear about the useless work. I'll read up, once I get an hour or so free time (man, I've just finished my exams on thursday, and I need to pack up my stuff to move to the collage, I can'§t count the IRL works to do ).
Ok, let's forget about the blog idea.
I was wondering more something like the planet system, as news portal. Take planetquake.com for exmaple. There are always some news around about quake, about upcommming maps, mods, tourneys etc.
I like the idea of intergrating this into Xeno's site or the Ninjaz, but I think it's their decision, because I think the migration would be a lot of work.

So, I was thinking about this:
There would be several news committers, who's roll would be to gather all the information they found about the game. Eg. one of us watches the forum's editing part, writes some words about what's happenening, and post it on the site. Info won't appear, because there are other news member, who need to write their articles too. Eg. another guy watches over the ladder, and other tourneys. Another one or two person build svn clients on a day by day, read the svn commits, and write a few words about what's new etc. Another one could gather some questions, and make an email interview with somebody from the developers, or the community etc.
Now, about the technical side, imho the articles could be tagged, and one could search with the tags inside (eg. Leileilol makes another model, we write an article about it, and tag it with: b00bies . Tag b00bies would apper inside the tags, and one could see there's an article tagged with the word b00bies. Follows the tag, and finds the article that redirects him to the editing thread, where Leileilol's fresh new model is.)
Aaaand, imho to make sure people visit the forum, there could be no commenting avaible on that site, but here, on the forum (eg. In the already presented News cathegory, with regular forum threads: Nexuiz News: Issue n#x date: yyyy.mm.dd.)
And, part of this, a newsletter could be sent too, eg. containing the new articles title and maybe the first few words of it.

ai wrote: I mean I would also like to contribute somehow, but not unless I'm positive my time won't go to waste. I wasted so much of it on pointless projects before and I don't do that anymore. And as long as this is a 'blog' I will never have confidence in this project unless it's almost but complete.

Now I'm not trying to hammer jack you I'm just saying that I don't see the sense in what you said. But I do agree with some of what you have said.

See in my view this is like saying, I'm going to the races to bet on some horses, but I'm not going to bet on anything that could lose. I want to be 100% sure I'll win!

This is what I see those two points to mean.
1. If the horse is sure to win the payoff will be poor.
2. The whole point of going to these places is to take some chances and not be hold off on any bet because the horse may fail.

But it is true if people could see the future and see that what they're going to do will fail they will not do it and that makes 100% sense.

I hope you see what I mean, I'm not trying to start up an argument about a whole new thing I'm just trying to tell you how I understood what you said. Some other person may read it and have a completely different interpretation than mine.

I would just like somewhere that I can get updates and news

tZork wrote:Right

If you took 2 seconds to read why it failed, you'd see it's because of simple reasons, missed close tags and &'s instead of &. It obviously doesn't dock me points on google.

Consider Nexuiz Ninjaz Beta, final products validate.

Not that I was even calling myself an expert, I was referring to Dokujisan.


Despite my patronizing attitude in my previous post, my words were meant for the benefit of the community. But I suppose we can ignore the issues and continue with business the usual Nexuiz way.

@Shaggy: Yeah, I see your point and it's fine by me. I just don't bet anymore, I almost always need to be certain a project will lead somewhere, unless it's something I'm really invested in and love to do. I just go to the races to look at the competition, not bet myself

@Brutail: Your idea is nice and all, but it sounds awfully like a lot of work and that a lot of people need to be there to make it happen. I'm not so sure that is doable. I don't know Xenos or the Ninja community, perhaps there are enough people there to help out. But that kind of project would need lot of management and someone to organize the whole thing (by sacrificing his/her own time), and the thing is that people might help out at first, but after a week or a month it's probably dead again. That's what usually happens, same thing happened with the ladder. Many people signed up and started playing, but soon enough it pretty much died out.
But I truly do wish for your idea to succeed, or something similar.

ai wrote:I almost always need to be certain a project will lead somewhere, unless it's something I'm really invested in and love to do.

Like finishing up a nearly complete flag model? That is in the realm of your expertise, is it not? Even if it's not the way everyone wants, it's an improvement over what we currently have. There are plenty of people wanting new flag designs. I think there is more than enough ideas, information, mock-ups and even incomplete models for you to make an artistic decision. I don't understand what you're waiting for, talk is cheap.

ai wrote:@Brutail: Your idea is nice and all, but it sounds awfully like a lot of work and that a lot of people need to be there to make it happen. I'm not so sure that is doable. I don't know Xenos or the Ninja community, perhaps there are enough people there to help out. But that kind of project would need lot of management and someone to organize the whole thing (by sacrificing his/her own time), and the thing is that people might help out at first, but after a week or a month it's probably dead again.

This is what I was referring to with "poor management".

ai wrote:That's what usually happens, same thing happened with the ladder. Many people signed up and started playing, but soon enough it pretty much died out.

I think there were a lot of other issues with the ladder, like the promotion, the application, the design, the clarity, etc.

[-z-] wrote:

ai wrote:I almost always need to be certain a project will lead somewhere, unless it's something I'm really invested in and love to do.

Like finishing up a nearly complete flag model? That is in the realm of your expertise, is it not?

Not sure what you're getting at but the short version is that yeah, I need more info about the flag concept before, at least I, start to model one. There's nothing stopping other modelers to create that flag though.
That's how paranoid and careful I am about my time. I literally wasted years on projects that didn't lead anywhere in the past and without any compensation. I don't want to throw away more of my time.
I like Nexuiz though and the community so I'm actually considering of creating stuff for this purpose, but my paranoia kicks in.

ai wrote:There's nothing stopping other modelers to create that flag though.

Except the knowledge that zuriastrad is lacking to finish and asking for help on?

ai wrote:bullshit, bullshit, bullshit.

You're scared you're going to waste 2 hours to finish a flag model that's a vast improvement over the current one?

[-z-] wrote:

ai wrote:There's nothing stopping other modelers to create that flag though.

Except the knowledge that zuriastrad is lacking to finish and asking for help on?

ai wrote:bullshit, bullshit, bullshit.

You're scared you're going to waste 2 hours to finish a flag model that's a vast improvement over the current one?

Put up or shut up.

I'm not sure, but I feel you have a problem with me and my ways. Anyway, please don't litter this thread anymore with that and if you've got something to say or feel you need to workout feel free to send me a PM. That way other won't get involved. Or you could start a new thread in the 'Alientrap - General' category about 'ai not letting his time go to waste' or something, I really don't mind.

I'm not gonna respond to anything that doesn't relate to this blog/site idea in this thread from now on.

PS: Morphed is a modeler too, he has created great models before. You could ask him. He's usually on IRC.

tZork wrote:Right, even if this is true, and with that tantrum of a response rather then a sane argumentative one i doubt it. This is not a technical discussion, field expertise don't enter into it. Sure if/when its time to implement a solution such experience is valuable, or in form of suggesting other options that may be unknown or overlooked so far.

http://www.mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2004/06/march-to-your-own-standard

@Brutail: Your idea is nice and all, but it sounds awfully like a lot of work and that a lot of people need to be there to make it happen. I'm not so sure that is doable.

If all people would think like this, we won't even have Nexuiz
Yes, I have a lot of unfinished projects for myself too (eg. like Noobmaps, I still haven't fogrgotten about that or better yet, Facing Worlds 2008/2009 (!) ) , but I'm sure with a little enhusiasm and a bit of sacrifice, it's managable and doable.
This game is all about sacrificing your free time, if you want to get deeper into it... and who won't like to take part in something, that makes Nexuiz better?

A small joke on the blog SCNR

http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20040612