TDM (perhaps 1on1 also) weapon respawn time...

Have been playing a lot of TDM lately and it seems quite spammy, and i have thought about this for a long time, one of the main problems i see is when trying to gain control it's so easy to pickup a weapon around the map most of the time because the weapon respawn time is only set to 15 seconds which i think is pretty short...so it's very hard to control areas of the map or weapons and it's really starting to annoy me.

now im not asking for a change in standard nexuiz but perhaps for the ladder servers for competitive play, but i've put a poll up and will ask now if anyone is interested in helping to test a new time-limit out.

I'm suggesting a few new time-limits here, so people can vote / give opinions on this, thanks in advance.

Im not too sure on the respawn time in Q3 but as a note and guideline it is in ut2004 27.5 seconds.

Now im just asking to get some feedback to what other people think of the idea, and i posted this because I have quite a number of years playing TDM.

Also it would be nice like i said before if someone could get a server or two changed so that clans can test this out, both american and european.

I should also say that im not too fond of the amount of damage the laser does to one self as well, this is spoiling TDM in the same way at times, able to laser up to opponents change weapons and fire so often. I don't mind this happening but I do when it's so abuseable, I don't know if anyone agrees with me but i'd like to see the laser do more self-damage so that it is used reasonably...again im not asking for a change to nexuiz altoghether but perhaps a change for competitive play, thoughts please guys and girls

I voted for 25 seconds. 15 Secs is too short. If you control the RL or Mortar, it's no fun game for the other(or you are the victim). It might be better to extend the MH and MA too. Lots of good 1on1 players are able to control the MH's and MA. By this they get a lot of health every 30 secs. You have no chance against someone with 250/200 H/A. For this..... 45/60 secs looks good for me.

I am always ready for a tdm match.

I don't know about the respawn time. Never had any problems with the current 15 seconds respawn time, but perhaps I'll have more fun with a higher one.

I vote for 27.5, as 120 seconds and 30 seconds (the other items' respawn times) are no multiple of that, making it harder to control the regular items AND the special items, which is a good thing and makes the game depend less on lame repeating the same path over and over again and more on actual skill.

Chubby wrote:I voted for 25 seconds. 15 Secs is too short. If you control the RL or Mortar, it's no fun game for the other(or you are the victim). It might be better to extend the MH and MA too. Lots of good 1on1 players are able to control the MH's and MA. By this they get a lot of health every 30 secs. You have no chance against someone with 250/200 H/A. For this..... 45/60 secs looks good for me.

This would be possible, but we'd have to see how this works in conjunction with the weapon respawn time increased...It could be too long in nexuiz (the powerups i mean) because of the strength of the weapons, however it could also change the dynamics quite drastically...more defensive game e.t.c, This imo chubby would be a good idea if we had MULTIPLE armour values, but at the moment we don't otherwise you could put in place for example a small armour 50/75 something like that that respawns every 30 seconds and a bigger on that was every 45-60 for example, if we had an armour tier system.

divVerent wrote:I vote for 27.5, as 120 seconds and 30 seconds (the other items' respawn times) are no multiple of that, making it harder to control the regular items AND the special items, which is a good thing and makes the game depend less on lame repeating the same path over and over again and more on actual skill.

Excellent point actually divVerent.

Will make demo's of the games with 27.5 seconds weapon respawn time and post here when I have them.

Health and armor should have SAME respawn time. And for each health amount, same armor amount should be available to include in the map. Have no opinion about other things. (yes, yes, I like symmetry)

with how movement is right now, you shouldnt be having any issues controlling weapons even with a 15 second respawn time, 25/27.5 will be too high of a respawn time in nexuiz

TwEaK wrote:with how movement is right now, you shouldnt be having any issues controlling weapons even with a 15 second respawn time, 25/27.5 will be too high of a respawn time in nexuiz

hmmm, it is very hard to control a map tweak, we played some maps tonight with 27.5 it was OK, lots less spammier and control was seen more more, However i will test with different values, 22.5 and 25 also before i comment fully, I think you should test also

So here's my quick positives and negatives (from fisume one, although he only played one 20 minute map)

+ less spam in general, i don't mean spam of weapons, i mean less spam in general from players shooting all the time.
+When you got a weapon it was nice that you can pick up some frags, and shotgun did not feel over-powered because you didnt kill someone they respawn, picked up a weapon straight away dealt a lot of damage and killed you, made the shotgun feel balanced more and work better.
+Control with tactics is better.
+ Less RL self-detonation!
+ Felt like i had to go find ammo, and use my weapons better as i tended not to have more then 4+ weapons a lot of the time at once.

- can feel like you are waiting a long time for a weapon to respawn if not used to it.
- have to gain control back if you lose it (not a negative to me, but i can see how it might be in some people's eyes so ive put it here)


+ / - may make you play a bit more defensive at times.
+ / - Need to cherish your weapons more.

however i can only speak for myself on this matter, ai and morfar played so hopefully they will give there views also. And still need to test a few more times.

divVerent wrote:I vote for 27.5, as 120 seconds and 30 seconds...are no multiple of that...

well, but this would apply for 25 as well right?

I have never seen the need for this change. I can not vote or even have an opinion about this before I played with different settings. I will try to do this.

planetnexuiz.de:1338 is running 27.5 second respawn at the moment if anyone wants to test, i must stress that this is for competitive play not a change i am asking for in just standard nexuiz.

Here are my views:

The action went down a bit and you definitely play more defensive as you don't have access to all the weapons as much so you wait till you get one or try to sneak behind the enemy while your teammate attacks from another front. I used this trick a lot.
I think it's good that the game has become more defensive and not going straight for the enemy all the time. Retreating and regrouping is also a strategy it this happens a lot more.

You indeed will cherish your weapons a lot more. I also found shotgun to be a LOT more useful. It is indeed a valuable weapon.

You tend to use any weapon you get now and not just wait for either Nex, Mortar or RL, but you indeed use Machine Gun, Crylink and even electro if it's available on the map. So more weapon variety. Which in my opinion shows a lot more skill in the person as he/she will need to get rounded will all the weapons and not just specialize in those first 3 mentioned.
This also bring fourth a lot more interesting matches/games and you'll have to "strategize" more.

I also believe this will enhance teamplay after thinking about it for a while. Because it's hard for someone to have more than 4-5 weapons at a time, you will need to share the weapons with your teammate. Being careful so that you won't take double if your teammate doesn't have that weapon, but still be sure that the enemy doesn't get it either.
So you might probably want to divide certain weapons between each other to compensate for each others weak side.

My aim got better with Mortar as I had to use that a lot more than Nex cause Kojn's such a dilly dally when it comes to taking it from the enemy. I've already brought this up but, once you DO get Nex you make sure that you don't miss or die as getting it again might be a hard task. So again, you play more defensive and carefully.

So to sum it up. Do I like this respawn time? Yes I do. I had a lot more fun playing this than normally actually.
It was more challenging yes, but a lot more fun too. Better gameplay overall and I think it would be a lot more fun to watch matches and tourneys this way.

ai wrote:You indeed will cherish your weapons a lot more. I also found shotgun to be a LOT more useful. It is indeed a valuable weapon.

You tend to use any weapon you get now and not just wait for either Nex, Mortar or RL, but you indeed use Machine Gun, Crylink and even electro if it's available on the map. So more weapon variety. Which in my opinion shows a lot more skill in the person as he/she will need to get rounded will all the weapons and not just specialize in those first 3 mentioned.
This also bring fourth a lot more interesting matches/games and you'll have to "strategize" more.

That is what i wanted to happen, the fact that in the games i saw people using MG more, i saw people using mortar more, not just spawn get any weapon so often and using it, and a lot more using one weapon in a certain situation which = not so much gun-ho charging in.

I also had to do the exact same thing, and this is how TDM should be like imo ...it really did remind me of when i used to play in my other games.

Sometimes id get a nex and i hit more actually, because i took my time, ran out of ammo tor was low on it, then played careful and got some more. I'd die sometimes getting killed 3-4 times in a row, lost control a little bit, then fought over the weapon/s and got a little 3-4 spree of my own going for example, it swung both ways especially on stormkeep except for my talking in mid-game which i will apologize for here.

Ive also played on an american server with it now also, any americans who want to play a clan-game or whatever ill be happy to play with you as long as people give it a shot and test it out.

In time i will get people to try other values also.

Shotgun secondary should be one shot

Shotgun secondary should be one shot

What other aspects of this would be implemented? Refire times and damage dealt for example? What good will it do for the gameplay discussed in this topic?

You could still fight back having no weapon to pick. Damage could even be decreased.

1) The server planetnexuiz.de:1338 has an item respawn time of 25 seconds, not 27.5 seconds.
2) I setup the server to have 8 player slots, with 6 players allowed to play at the same type. The gametype can be changed by voting, enter "vcall tdm" or "vcall ctf". I setup the server to be more ladder-server-like in general.

First of all you need to know that this changed respawn time affects:
- weapons
- ammo
- health (5 hp, 25 hp)
- armor (5 armor)
- I haven't looked into how the 50 health/armor are affected, I believe they have their own setting

Actuallly while trying to get some sleep I thought about it. Two disadvantages:
1) Having different settings in ladder compared to original settings is something I don't really like - it forces players to change their style when playing ladder/non ladder matches.
2) Good players with a built-in clock work will now rape weaker players even easier. There will be games were one team has all weapons AND items all the time, and the other team can decide to use laser or shotgun.

The advantages OTOH were already mentioned. It is likely to reduce the amount of spam. Of course the better team with superiour item timing will still get enough items/ammo to spam and the weaker team will have even more disadvantage because of this.

But as I've said before, I have to test it myself first.

GreEn`mArine wrote:1) The server planetnexuiz.de:1338 has an item respawn time of 25 seconds, not 27.5 seconds.
2) I setup the server to have 8 player slots, with 6 players allowed to play at the same type. The gametype can be changed by voting, enter "vcall tdm" or "vcall ctf". I setup the server to be more ladder-server-like in general.

First of all you need to know that this changed respawn time affects:
- weapons
- ammo
- health (5 hp, 25 hp)
- armor (5 armor)
- I haven't looked into how the 50 health/armor are affected, I believe they have their own setting

Actuallly while trying to get some sleep I thought about it. Two disadvantages:
1) Having different settings in ladder compared to original settings is something I don't really like - it forces players to change their style when playing ladder/non ladder matches.
2) Good players with a built-in clock work will now rape weaker players even easier. There will be games were one team has all weapons AND items all the time, and the other team can decide to use laser or shotgun.

The advantages OTOH were already mentioned. It is likely to reduce the amount of spam. Of course the better team with superiour item timing will still get enough items/ammo to spam and the weaker team will have even more disadvantage because of this.

But as I've said before, I have to test it myself first.

yes you should really test before hand, and you can just change the weapon respawn time (or so i was told anyway he worked ok), not all the items as well, why has this been changed? and when i played yesterday it was definitely 27.5 for weapons anyway cause i checked, maybe its gone back to 25, ill recheck

I'm also starting to wonder who's actually played a clan-game properly and voted..

I dunno what the respawn value was yesterday. Today when I looked at the server config file, it definetely was 25 sec

The only way I see in the default configurations (which lists all Nexuiz custom cvars) to configure the weapon respawn delay is g_pickup_respawntime_short, and this affects items as well (as I posted above). I don't see a way to influence weapon respawn delay only (or weapon + ammo respawn only)

GreEn`mArine wrote:I dunno what the respawn value was yesterday. Today when I looked at the server config file, it definetely was 25 sec

The only way I see in the default configurations (which lists all Nexuiz custom cvars) to configure the weapon respawn delay is g_pickup_respawntime_short, and this affects items as well (as I posted above). I don't see a way to influence weapon respawn delay only (or weapon + ammo respawn only)

ok well it was definitely this setting anyway g_pickup_respawntime_short, worked out fine anyway if your on later let us know ill test with you.

Also tried 25 seconds for 2 maps and seems to work just as well, so i guess it's down to personal preference what people prefer (who have played both settings).

My personal experience says 27.5 but I didn't play full out when testing the 25 sec respawn so my experience didn't quite compute as how it should have :p

Playing the matches with longer weapon-respawn where less spammy and more tactical I guess.
But I felt no difference between 25 and 27.5 secs.
Right now I think I like 25 secs more.

I'd agree for this change no problem even without testing. Not sure about 1v1, but for TDM, definitely. Advantages were mentioned already so I won't bother with that. The only issue I can imagine would be too many annoying shotgun fights, but from what you guys mentioned it's not that bad. Personally I'd make shotgun weaker, would make things even more strategic, but I can live with how it is right now I suppose.

I voted for 25 secs (TDM). it was fine.