I am leaving - for real now

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Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:50 pm

  • In the last months, stress against me from the Nexuiz community as increased very much. I won't do the mistake of naming the people again, but let me just mention some things in some random order without respect to severity:

    • At least two people talk down on me and others for simply having another opinion than their own.
    • Nexuiz once had a very nice community, of people loving the game, helping with developing it and playing respectfully, honorably and politely on the servers. This has changed in all these points. People insult each other on the server, complain about new features all the time even if they are just options, stopped helping with developing, and call each other "gay))", typefrag, teamkill and even votekick others on the servers.
    • One guy other than me finally starts doing impressive work for the project, and gets accused for stealing work from others on no valid grounds. Further investigation on the issue led to everything getting cleared up.
    • Two members of the Nexuiz community started advocating use of drugs to improve gaming performance. Sorry, but this is something I am strictly against - it should be up to anyone what to hurt his body with, so if some drug makes you play better, not taking it before serious matches should be considered an elementary rule of etiquette. The last thing I want to see is the game I play publicly associated with drug use and "junkies".

    All this has been impacting my mood in real life too, as it simply is too much pressure for a single person. Thus, I leave.

    Many thanks to the few people who actively help me:

    • esteel, although he has mostly stopped developing, he's always nice to people and helps others with their problems.
    • LordHavoc, our great engine developer. The engine is getting more perfect every day. Too bad he hasn't got much time for it any more - but I can't blame him, he's got other projects (DarkWar), real life, and an employment contract.
    • MikeeUSA, who gives tZork the chance to reload his ban hammer :)
    • MirceaKitsune (sorry if I am misspelling your nickname), who also started on the menu code base. I do not see enough experience in him yet to give him commit access already, however, I suggest him to work together with Ronan.
    • Ronan, who came quite as a surprise, as he started with the hardest part of the Nexuiz code base first - the menu. Way to go. I think he should get commit access soon. Maybe someone should teach him about svn first, I do not know how proficient he is with that tool yet, but teaching him how to best use it should be a matter of about half an hour, most likely less.
    • the PeaceBrothers clan, one of the few clans that stayed true to themselves all the time. I will stay a PB, and of course continue playing.
    • the other clans that at least somewhat stayed true to themselves, like MoN, Dave, nsb, BOT, CON, LDB
    • Tenshihan, who makes the greatest sounds ever, and now also has explained how he makes them. I suggest some people start trying his methods. Sure, a recording studio isn't easy to afford, but I greatly recommend anyone to learn making sound effects (i.e. creativity to find the right thing to make the right noise), audio recording and editing from him. He's a nice guy, and if you talk to him politely (and not too much at once), he'll explain his methods in detail to you, just like he explained on the forum how to make a gib sound with (IIRC) a piece of cloth and a mouthfull of water.
    • tZork, Strahlemann, C.Brutail, Clueless Newbie and now sev for their great maps that set new standards in Nexuiz.
    • XSAX LTU, for changing his nickname all the time, being still very easy to recognize)), and having evolved from a badly insulting noob and punk to a more or less funny player.
    • and everyone else who is actively working on the game


    You'll sure see me on my or the PB servers in the future. But I will no longer take the responsibility to add features (other than PB features or PB mods), or fix bugs. That is the part of others now. Sorry, but that's it. I'll sure stay a bit in the background, but don't count on it.

    As for the future of Nexuiz - I think we should release Nexuiz with its current feature set (i.e. a feature freeze), maybe add one or two maps, and wait for Tenshihan to complete the sounds, then release it as Nexuiz 2.5. Including TraK's textures can be postponed until we have a high quality map using them.
    1. Open Notepad
    2. Paste: ÿþMSMSMS
    3. Save
    4. Open the file in Notepad again

    You can vary the number of "MS", so you can clearly see it's MS which is causing it.
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    divVerent
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Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:01 pm

  • :cry:

    I just can't believe this :cry:

    Anyway, thank you for your work mate. You'll leave a very big hole - in every aspect I can think of.
    Gl hf with whatever you'll do in the future.
    "One should strive to achieve; not sit in bitter regret."
    WE ARE NEXUIZ.
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    C.Brutail
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Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:02 pm

  • Good luck, I hope you'll still add something at your leisure time. Anyway, don't feel obliged and thanks very much for your work.
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Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:14 pm

  • Sad but understandable. I think we owe you a big thank you (the others as well).

    It's too bad that things like people with bad firmware (I'll try not to call them bad things) and other community-related issues impact a game that has always lived off its wonderful community. I do hope however that things will get better in due time.

    It's nice of you to state your reasons so clearly and also give some examples of what people should do.

    Looking forward to seeing you around and also seeing more from the upcoming developers (two or three of them you already mentioned). :wink:

    *laserjumps*
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    BusterDBK
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Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:19 pm

  • sad to hear but understandable especially with the 2 drug using guys.
    you did great work for the game and the community .
    the fun stuff you have made was incredible.
    Aneurysm 4 the win !!!!! :D
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    cortez
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Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:31 pm

  • Patience and misunderstandings are the two words that come to mind. The love is there, just not in the way you want it or need it. Just because someone has different views on things doesn't mean they don't share the same common goal. Looking at some of these things on surface level, it's no wonder you let it get to you.

    You have to believe in your heart as hard as it may be, that there are people out who care in different ways. Different perspectives from different minds with different goals but a common love for the game. Without this combination, these ideas wouldn't be coming together in the way that they do. The most negative of energy can bring upon the most positive of change if you just give it time.

    You are undoubtedly one of the strongest forces to ever be associated with this game. Your selfless contributions have changed the face of the game and for many our understandings. The depth of your knowledge in the game, in the engine and in the tools you work with is ever apparent in the game.

    A vacation is certainly a good idea. I hope to see you clear your mind. You've had too much unwarranted stress for one man to take. Though for the sake of Nexuiz, the Quake related development community and open-source on the whole, you come back. With a clear head, a fresh perspective and an open heart. You are one of the most inspirational, committed and knowledgeable developers I've ever come to know.
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    [-z-]
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Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:32 pm

  • divVerent, thank you for your time and devotion to developing Nexuiz over these past couple of years. Me and many more have had (and continue to have) a lot of fun with this game, which wouldn't have been what it is without you - make sure you never forget that fact!

    Have a blast doing whatever else you pick to fill your time with!


    To give a bit of perspective to divVerent's importance for the development of Nexuiz, heres a stat from the subversion repository:

    Out of 4443 commits, 2236 were made by div0. Additionally, about 7% of the total commits for the darkplaces engine upon which nexuiz runs were by divverent.
    Whenever You go, then You aren't.
    kyre
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Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:07 pm

  • Understandable- we can only thank DivVerent for what he's done. Considering the amount of enjoyment I've gotten from Nexuiz (more than any game I've ever bought, possibly), I'm extremely greatful for Div's work. (Speaking of Mikee, I doubt he will be around anymore now that div0 has left :P)

    This does NOT have to mean that Nexuiz is a dead project. On the contrary- here we have an opportunity to re-organize and consolidate our effort. Yes, the codebase is at least temporarily frozen, but there are many other things that can and SHOULD be worked on, especially on the art side.

    I've thought we should freeze development for a while, so that people could make content to catch up with the code.

    Truely, the amount of progress Nexuiz has made in recent months has been astounding. We have lots of stuff to work with, from better support for modeled maps (LOD, hole fixes, texture blending), to fixes in the core game. Now is the time to work on building stuff for this new code.

    Only when the potential for advancement has been used up will I leave, and I don't believe that time is now.

    Yes, there are people who have fueled internal conflicts- in my view, that only highlights the importance of re-organization. As much as I like democracy, I don't believe that game development can be done effectively with a democracy; it results in unsatisfactory compromises, and a lack of direction. Even more important than that though is the necessity of maintaining a spirit of respect and camaraderie.

    In conclusion, I've written a short cinquian in honor of div0's work.

    div-0
    code forged
    before the eyes
    in mutually exclusive
    sublimity
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    torus
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Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:07 pm

Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:11 pm

  • As long as you still show up every once in a while somewhere on irc, {X}, or nex servers (=~ s/or/and/)...
    I guess I can just say thanks for your awesome work ...

    :(

    I can do some work for the game, but I'm not as skilled, and don't have much time while the uni semester is going on, but I'll try to do what I can
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    Blµb
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Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:28 pm

  • *salutes*

    Many thanks for everything you have done. Nothing would be the same without you and it will be tragic to see you go.
    Possibly not the worst mapper in the world.

    A blog of random pish:
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    Sepelio
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Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:52 pm

  • Good thing that you'll keep on playing heh :)


    Thanks for your fantastic work on the game, I hope Nex will get new developers who will keep up as you did ;)
    Meh.
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    Mr. Bougo
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Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:27 pm

  • Thank you very very much divVerent
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    mand1nga
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Sat Nov 15, 2008 12:28 am

  • Something I was thinking about:

    Will Nexuiz with new devellopers, still be Nexuiz? Div0 is one of the most important devellopers of Nexuiz.

    And I'm thinking about leaving the game too. I need something new. My movement and aim won't improve, and they both suck. The harder I try, the more I fail. This makes me mad. I need improvement, otherwise I don't enjoy something. As many of the NN users know, I have problems with my parents. They told me to delete nexuiz from my imac. It's maybe better to quit.
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    Chubby
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Sat Nov 15, 2008 12:42 am

  • :shock: :cry:

    You will be missed!
    Thank you for the many many hours you put into Nexuiz.
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    Silica Gel: Do Not Eat
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Sat Nov 15, 2008 12:48 am

  • Chubby wrote:And I'm thinking about leaving the game too.

    That would make "Infinity Community" a bit of a misnomer.

    Some times when the going gets tough, you need to try looking at things from a different perspective. Life may be telling you to try looking at the same problem from a different angle.
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    [-z-]
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Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:46 am

  • I'm really sorry for this bad news...

    div, now what should I do with the code related to the new text colors I'm working on for 1-2 weeks? I'm spending a lot of time to do it and perfecting it. I've asked u 3 days ago via pm to give a mail address so I can send u the diffs but u didn't reply. Now I understand why.

    But np.

    Only I hope that my work, that i guess many players want, should be inserted in Nexuiz 2.5. If not I'm gonna be even more sad for this situation.

    To whom should I now give the code?!?!?
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    terencehill
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Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:52 am

  • I have mixed feelings about this. I think it's unfortunate that divverent was driven to this decision (although, I certainly thought this day would come soon).

    But I'm also a little bit happy because this will force the Nexuiz community to adjust, and that is good for everyone.

    I was just chatting with -z- about this in IRC. We (the Nexuiz community) need to push to attract developers to the project (something other than just posting on the Nexuiz forum). I would like to be involved in organizing this push. I have some ideas that I've been batting around in my head over the past weeks.

    Divverent, I don't blame you for this decision at all. But I hope you are still involved to some degree in the future. All of your hard work and time spent have been appreciated. If I had a wish, I would ask you to set some time on the side to improve documentation for Nexuiz code (at least the more difficult spots) to help other developers jump on board a little faster. Just a suggestion for if/when you feel that you miss working on Nexuiz stuff ...weeks or months down the road ;-)
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Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:57 am

  • Thank you for all of your hard work, div. It's extremely sad to see you leave but with the situation the way it is, it's understandable. I'm sorry that it has come to this but thank you so much for everything you have done!
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Sat Nov 15, 2008 6:06 am

  • terencehill wrote:To whom should I now give the code?!?!?

    Use community patches sticky.
    Alien
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Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:08 am

  • Well, there is nothing more to say than thank you divVerent, for all the work you have put into the Nexuiz project, including NetRadiant.

    torus wrote:This does NOT have to mean that Nexuiz is a dead project. On the contrary- here we have an opportunity to re-organize and consolidate our effort. Yes, the codebase is at least temporarily frozen, but there are many other things that can and SHOULD be worked on, especially on the art side.

    I've thought we should freeze development for a while, so that people could make content to catch up with the code.

    Truely, the amount of progress Nexuiz has made in recent months has been astounding. We have lots of stuff to work with, from better support for modeled maps (LOD, hole fixes, texture blending), to fixes in the core game. Now is the time to work on building stuff for this new code.

    I agree with this. I am currently working on a new map that could be added to the core game (maching quality, style and license).
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    sev
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Sat Nov 15, 2008 9:19 am

  • Wow. Sorry to see you go. :( I never really thought about it, but I guess it's not supprising that all this would be too much for one person. I think that part of the problem (the problem being the lack of devs) is the lack of some type of official framework. We need something like a community contributions subforum with a stickied wishlist. Not only will this get people to contribute, but people can make the gradual transition of user - contributer - dev (code dev or otherwise) rather than the quantum leap of user - dev. And we NEED to have the official bug report site under something other than the search button! Also, like Torus said, the community is too large now to put everything to a direct vote. As for the asshats, they just need to done away with quickly before they cause a big downward spiral. Sorry things didn't work out for you.
    Last edited by MRB 255 on Sat Nov 15, 2008 9:58 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Sat Nov 15, 2008 9:27 am

  • :(

    Sad to see you leave, but I understand too, that all this has been putting too much pressure on one person. Thankfully, we'll still see you, a very nice person, around ingame and IRC.

    Thank you for your contribution to this awesome game, whatever will happen to it now that we don't have a developer anymore... :cry:
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    FruitieX
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Sat Nov 15, 2008 9:45 am

  • Thanks for everything Divverent.
    I hope you can find something to do with all that time,
    because from watching alientrap irc I can't see how you do anything else.
    A huuuuuuuuuuuuuge amount of work,
    for which we are all in your debt.
    Three cheers for Div0
    hip hip........
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    Rad Ished
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Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:54 am

  • Sad to see it had to come to this divVerent, but I understand and support your choice. Working on something like this should be, imo, mainly fun. when it stops being that its time to stop back for a while or leave. A big tnx for all your efforts and good luck in whatever things you decide to spend your time on. I cant say that I don't have similar thoughts. I am inclined to agree with Dokujisan, maybe what this community needs to evolve is a void for ppl to fill. But nuff abt me. If you ever need a hand with something you think I may be able to do, ill do my best.
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    tZork
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Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:49 pm

  • See you soon. :) I guess and hope so.
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    Mirio
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Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:53 pm

  • Well, I simply no longer feel obliged to fix bugs, etc. Others can and should do that now. I can of course still help - but I'll act in the background only. And mostly from my workplace (from where I won't start the game, but helping with coding etc. can be done from there just fine).

    Doing a code freeze (or actually, feature freeze - bug fixes, why not, and Tenshihan's sounds should get completed and included) and doing a release this year would be a very good idea either way.
    1. Open Notepad
    2. Paste: ÿþMSMSMS
    3. Save
    4. Open the file in Notepad again

    You can vary the number of "MS", so you can clearly see it's MS which is causing it.
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    divVerent
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Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:14 pm

  • I hope I can manage to fix the flags before the release. I have some problems with getting the animations to work, but I'll see if Morphed cannot help me on that front.
    I think I'll be able to finish the portals model next week if not sooner.

    It feels kind of empty when one developer leaves, but on the other hand, making it more casual can be a very good thing as well. Good luck Div.
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    ai
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Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:22 pm

  • What about the csqc/packetloss -> crash bug? Doesn't this bug have to be fixed before a new release can be done?
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Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:07 pm

  • That bug is fixed already. So our showstopper is gone, all we really need for 2.5 now is Tenshihan's sounds getting complete and good.
    1. Open Notepad
    2. Paste: ÿþMSMSMS
    3. Save
    4. Open the file in Notepad again

    You can vary the number of "MS", so you can clearly see it's MS which is causing it.
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