Hi,

I'm not sure if this is the correct forum category to post in, but if it isn't let me know and I will post in a different one.

I was recently looking through a demo of my opponent in a recent comp game and I saw a nex shot that appears to miss, then in the next frame magically splatter me into giblets.

I don't understand what is going on, or even if it is a side effect of network latency, my lame rendering gpu, or something else. It might appear differently on someone else's computer when the demo is played back, in which case just say "Nothing to see here."

But on my computer, the sequence of events seems to be;
- crosshair is well below my feet
- next frame the nex fires (hear sound)
- next frame i am giblets
- next frame the trail goes through my giblets

I've slowed the demo down to 0.1 , I don't know if it can go any slower than that.

If you would like to watch and let me know, this happens at 5:30 on the timer, or 14:44:43 on the clock.

Demo can be downloaded here:
http://shaggy.mkzelda.net/tourney/seaso ... l_rage.dem

Thanks for any ideas or suggestions as to what may be going on.

flea

This is merely the antilag system at work. It happens in all sorts of shots. Heres two more that show it

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=oRPaLdEYeQU

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=gEOCnlRBijs

I'll have to take your word for it, as I can't see anything in those youtube videos.

Well, I don't have this problem in other games, so I guess I'll just have to go back to something I understand.

You should have used svn version with fixed antilag.

Alien wrote:You should have used svn version with fixed antilag.

Both clients were SVN, server was 2.4.2.

Are you saying that in SVN that wouldn't occur?

Thanks.

In svn, it does occur, but less visible.

Basically, the issue is a question of "philosophy" when doing antilagging. If you check against other games, you'll see one of these behaviours:

• Shot gets displayed first, later the enemy gibs: client-side immediate display, but the actual shot is done later on the server.
  Looks great from first person view, looks pretty odd from another player's view (as the server can't "push" the shot back in time, it'll displayed to the other clients at the "gib time" and possibly there isn't even a line of sight between the players any more.
  
  This is what most "unlagged" mutators for other games do.
• Shot gets displayed when the server "executed" it. Enemy gibs immediately after the shot (+/- 1 frame, happens depending on network packet size). Basically, the "truth" is shown to everyone.
  
  This is what Nexuiz does.

Green had said he'll try to implement the first method (as an option). We'll see how it comes out.

divVerent wrote:[*]Shot gets displayed when the server "executed" it. Enemy gibs immediately after the shot (+/- 1 frame, happens depending on network packet size). Basically, the "truth" is shown to everyone.

This is what Nexuiz does.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. Shot is played as a sound on the client when the server "executed" it, but often not displayed until 2-3 frames later.

In fact, look at this video
http://aussienexers.net/demos/amazing.avi
I recorded this from the same demo with cl_capturevideo on slowmo 0.1

Here is the sequence of events
- nex sound fires
- giblets
- NMY lands, turns, fires

In other words, I cannot trust my client to show me where the NMY *actually* is when he fires, or even when I return fire. How can I possibly aim at someone who is already two frames ahead of me?

flea

if you watch it in slowmo 0.1 there is a little delay between the sound and the nex beam , but if you watch it with normal speed everything is ok. I think thats just normal if you watch it in slowmo
probably you should record it! if i watch i can't see anything.

Mirio wrote:probably you should record it! if i watch i can't see anything.

Sry, wrong demo.
The above demo is from the NMY POV.

This demo(below) is from my POV. Even at normal speed I am giblets before the shot is displayed.

http://aussienexers.net/demos/2009-01-1 ... l_rage.dem

When it happened in the match I thought the NMY had actually shot while in mid-air, at an angle, which blew me away. But looking at both demos after the match, that wasn't the case at all, it's just that the display of model+nex trail was three frames behind the actual shot, and he was moving fast.

All I really want to know is if this is a result of something on *my* client, like crappy GPU or something, so I can possibly fix it. Or is it a nexuiz artifact that will/will not be fixed.

Thanks,

flea

You should record it, and upload it to Youtube or something. Too time consuming to sift through a demo.

torus wrote:You should record it, and upload it to Youtube or something. Too time consuming to sift through a demo.

Ummmm ....

http://aussienexers.net/demos/amazing.avi

flea wrote:I'll have to take your word for it, as I can't see anything in those youtube videos.

Well, I don't have this problem in other games, so I guess I'll just have to go back to something I understand.

Go then, leave nexuiz, don't let the door crush you on your way out.

"DO WHAT I SAY ORELSE I WILL NOT PLAY NEXUIZ"

No Flea: don't play nexuiz then. I don't care if you play the game, only you care.
Why do you think ANYONE cares what you do for recreation.

The only possible reason anyone would care if you left is if you PRODUCED SOMETHING and there was then a chance of you producing no more. You produce nothing thus your absence will not be missed by ANYONE.

So go and leave in a tizzy. No one will care. No one does care.

tundramagi wrote:Go then, leave nexuiz, don't let the door crush you on your way out.

"DO WHAT I SAY ORELSE I WILL NOT PLAY NEXUIZ"

No Flea: don't play nexuiz then. I don't care if you play the game, only you care.
Why do you think ANYONE cares what you do for recreation.

The only possible reason anyone would care if you left is if you PRODUCED SOMETHING and there was then a chance of you producing no more. You produce nothing thus your absence will not be missed by ANYONE.

So go and leave in a tizzy. No one will care. No one does care.

This kind of talk is not appreciated here and it will benefit no one. Either say something to help or don't say anything!

Anyway, this is just a visual issue. Unlagging in Nexuiz works by retroactively adjusting the aim, which sometimes look weird.

Also, it CAN happen that the nex shot appears in another network packet than the gibbing.

In any case: if antilag is enabled (which it is on most servers), it counts where the enemy was when you hit the trigger. The shot is drawn later, but the time when you clicked is what counts.

ai wrote:

tundramagi wrote:Go then, leave nexuiz, don't let the door crush you on your way out.

"DO WHAT I SAY ORELSE I WILL NOT PLAY NEXUIZ"

No Flea: don't play nexuiz then. I don't care if you play the game, only you care.
Why do you think ANYONE cares what you do for recreation.

The only possible reason anyone would care if you left is if you PRODUCED SOMETHING and there was then a chance of you producing no more. You produce nothing thus your absence will not be missed by ANYONE.

So go and leave in a tizzy. No one will care. No one does care.

This kind of talk is not appreciated here and it will benefit no one. Either say something to help or don't say anything!

He was helped, he "disagreed" with the help and explainations given.

So now I try to help him put his threat of leaving nexuiz in perspective: you, I, others ... lose nothing if he leaves. He's allready _threatening_ the 'nexuiz community' just because he doesn't understand some game mechanics. This is worse than oblivion's threats about not making anything if you don't do what he says: flea is threatening to not _play_ nexuiz (he doesn't pertend to be interested in making anything for you, or the nexuiz community).

It is rediculous, this person is threatening not to play if you don't do what he wants...
Not even "not make stuff for nexuiz (even though havent made anything original yet for it, just have the ability to)" threat that was successful in the past by another person. ... this is a "not going to _play_ nexuiz" threat. He threatens to withhold his presance from the online community as if that was such a valuable thing (who knows, he doesn't show any evidence either way, he just threatens and complains immediatly).

@Tundra:
Still, no matter what he or anyone else says. Talking like you did is STILL not appropriate. Just keep it to yourself and ignore whatever you think is unworthy. No need to make a big deal out of stuff like this and 'attack' them. That's how conflict starts, and we don't want conflict.

Oh, I thought you only PMd this outburst to me.

tundramagi wrote:Go then, leave nexuiz, don't let the door crush you on your way out.

"DO WHAT I SAY ORELSE I WILL NOT PLAY NEXUIZ"

No Flea: don't play nexuiz then.

OK.

tundramagi wrote:It is rediculous, this person is threatening not to play if you don't do what he wants...
Not even "not make stuff for nexuiz (even though havent made anything original yet for it, just have the ability to)" threat that was successful in the past by another person. ... this is a "not going to _play_ nexuiz" threat. He threatens to withhold his presance from the online community as if that was such a valuable thing (who knows, he doesn't show any evidence either way, he just threatens and complains immediatly).

Okaaayyy ... seems like you read a lot more into what I said than what I actually said, but that's why I just ignored your private message, as I thought you were just a little unhinged, but I can see how you have a valid point.

I asked a question, didn't understand the answer, and then really didn't know how to proceed from that point, so I gave up.

Well, enjoy Nexuiz, the spider bot looks great, the new physics has pros and cons, but overall I think the game will grow, despite the attack dogs launching when someone asks a question.

Flea.