The shot animation.. how the gun moves after your fired a shot.

I think everyone will agree that nex is the most abused weapon followed by rl and cryspam. Nex refire rate was lowered, damage slightly decreased. If switching time was upped a bit without breaking combos that would be no problem cause that increase will change nothing. Yet we need to check carefully which combos would be broken with 0.7 or 0.5. If none, so what's the f* problem. If yes, than we should discuss how this or that combo affects gameplay.

Anyone can use morfar's weapon data for comparison and post the results here.

Increasing the switching time (animtime) will break combos. End of story. Anyone who knows how to combo knows that. Increasing refire rate won't break combos per se, but it WILL prevent a nex/other/nex combo. As an example, at even its current rate if I fire a nex/mortar/nex combo in rapid succession, often times the second nex shot won't fire because the refire time hasn't passed yet (yes, I do combo that fast sometimes). I can live with the current timing because I'm used to it.

Decreasing the damage of the nex again is a viable option. I'm one of those people who loves the nex and have become quite good with it, but would rather see its damage decrease than its use in combos completely nerfed.

I know, I know. I'm just a lowly player who is supposed to be thankful that we have this great free game. Just remember that Nexuiz is about speed and combos. It's always been that way. Please don't mess that up.

Well as I see it, you don't necessarily break the nex/other/nex combo at all. You just fire 2 mortars or spray more with MG or whatever. See, that combo is still viable just not as fast.

ai wrote:Well as I see it, you don't necessarily break the nex/other/nex combo at all. You just fire 2 mortars or spray more with MG or whatever. See, that combo is still viable just not as fast.

... and if you cross your eyes you can claim to have two girlfriends, but most people will still see only one.

Okay here is my idea:

- Make the animtime 5 seconds long on the nex, and new animation will include random between the Macarena or the Electric Boogaloo
- Make the nex refire time 12 minutes
- Remove the mortar and rocket launcher; replace with paper airplane launcher and potato cannon
- Increase crylink damage to 1000, splash radius to 500 yards, 25 bounce count
- Remove the laser completely; replace with laser pointer only
- Shotgun now fires pancakes, MG fires syrup globs
- Electro remains but no longer fires anything
- Hagar now fires kittens (secondary fires kitten heads)

Looking forward to 2.5 with these changes.

OHSNAPPLE wrote:Okay here is my idea: [...]

+1

Xeno wrote:... and if you cross your eyes you can claim to have two girlfriends, but most people will still see only one.

Well, my statement is actually true, you can still combo with longer wait time with Nex, but of course, it won't be as fast.
Your comeback statement is only that of an illusion with the two girlfriends. This holds invalid.

OHSNAPPLE wrote:Okay here is my idea:
...
- Remove the mortar and rocket launcher; replace with paper airplane launcher and potato cannon
...
-

no no no, make the mortar throw little fish! Secondary could let them wriggle and flop around a bit, before they detonate. The new weapon model looks sooo fishy! I kinda like that.

If we can't settle for OHSNAPPLE's ideas, I'd say that taking the effectiveness out of the nex combos might not be an altogether bad idea, as most somewhat experienced players use nex combos only or almost only. In order to have more variety in gameplay, weakening the nex combos might be a valid option. Though I personally would prefer not to weaken them too much - say 0.5 animtime -, as I myself like nex combos (except I am no good at them, but anyway) .

Remember, weapon combos are a GOOD thing. It gives the game a nice bit of variety. I wouldnt mind the nex taking a damage nerf if I could still combo it quickly.

I've noticed this a lot from playing quake live. Weapon combos are rendered almost inert there because the time it takes to actually switch then get to fire a weapon is far too long. This bores me.

Nexuiz really is very speed and combo oriented and I personally dont want that to ever change because it would dull the game down to a large extent.

OHSNAPPLE's idea sounds like a fun mod

There's nothing wrong with the weapons :/

OHSNAPPLE wrote:Okay here is my idea:


- Make the nex refire time 12 minutes
- Remove the laser completely; replace with laser pointer only
- Shotgun now fires pancakes, MG fires syrup globs
- Electro remains but no longer fires anything
- Hagar now fires kittens (secondary fires kitten heads)

you made my day

im kindof worried about people camping in base . here you are going in grabbing the flag and 5 guys are shooting at you and you cant laser out or rocket jump . much less defend your self reasonably . those situations happen sometimes . your backup has died and and you are left alone in enemy territory . maybe add in rocket packs like zymotic if weps are reduced to compensates for speed lasering / defending.
another aspect is it takes skill to get wepon combos down efficiently . i was proud to see myself overcoming that obstacle and actually beating opponents whom i thought were fast . now i have move my sights to even more efficient opponents . i have trained a long time to get where i am now . i have friends always trying to get me to play unreal or quake . but it is too slow for me . even now in nexuiz i get too amped about playing and switch wepons 2 or 3 times before i get a shot off . if anything speed it up i love that people only seem to limited by skill and not enviorment . nexuiz has less limits compared to other games . i dont even play playstation or x box anymore .

Long timeout will not 'weaken combos' despite whaveter devs might think. People will simply stop using nex in close combat (the same way as CR, since it reloads on evey switch) and invent new combos. The only way to weaken nex is to make it deal 70 damage, so newly spawned player needs 3 shots to kill.

Anim time was shorted a long time ago.. that thread did not have activity for almost a month grasshopper

Doh!

I'm honestly confused to hear that the nex was changed again. It was far too powerful when there was a glitch some months ago, which I had illustrated by showing a "double nex" video (reload time could be shortened by switching to another weapon and back to nex). Ever after the last change for the better I never felt there was any type of "abusing" the nex at all. I entirely second what Green said: Nexuiz (to me) is a fast paced game, and the best way to avoid people using nex (or other) combos is this:
1. Learn to predict their actions.
2. Learn to move real fast
3. Learn to stack.
4. Learn to spawn frag (which is not easy enough to count as abusive behaviour, as you only need one frag to turn things around).
5. Learn to break combos.
6. Learn the combos yourself.
7. Take advantage of the under-rated weapons.

Especially point 7 is something to have in mind: Whenever I play against real good players like kojak or bundy I'm impressed by their creative use of those weapons. It can can become a real pain in the ass. -- So, what exactly is "abuse"? RIGHT NOW it's only taking advantage of what the game gives you - and there will always be players who find really nice combos. If you slow everything down, it will be slower combos, i.e. you die slower - but you definetely WILL die as long as you don't increase your skills. I totally agree with calling 2.4.2 the version with the best balance yet.

So, in a nutshell it's all about deciding, if you want a fast arcade game or a kind of tactical game as there are quite a lot out there.

I prefer the fast-paced game. That's the #1 reason why I've been playing nex for almost three years now. Seriously.

PS: I really appreciate the effort being put in making the game better and better. But some things shouldn't be changed just because they can be changed. Another example for this that annoyed me personally are the weapon sounds (e.g. mg = toy gun) and the new announcer who is in danger of losing his special charm with every version ( e.g. "amazing" instead of "yoda ...").

PPS: Instead of thinking too much about weapons you should take into consideration that most hardcore players reduce the graphic settings drastically (including the background which makes aiming much easier) while increasing their fov to around 110 degrees. I do this myself and wouldn't want it to be changed. But as a matter of fact this is by far more abusive than any weapon combo ... some popular games don't allow certain settings like this to be reduced for a reason ...

Well sorry, but two posts up i noted that this was LONG changed back to the old 2.4.2 settings!
And if you do not belive me, try for yourself: http://forums.alientrap.local/viewtopic.php?t=4448 (Nexuiz 2.5 released!)

esteel wrote:Well sorry, but two posts up i noted that this was LONG changed back to the old 2.4.2 settings!

Hehe, I read the whole thread, except for this little bit ... unbelievable

Anyway, I think my message also contains some general thoughts on how to deal with the balancing issue in general.