I was wondering if there is such a thing as a jetpack clip in the works or something like it . say i built mentalspace and it was on a sever using jetpack . wel now the hard work i put in the map is now useless . so i build mental re-space with jetpack clip in the center . now people will have to interact to cap .

I see some usage for such a tool in places . So im wondering if there is an existing brush or something of the like somewhere .

Now im not knocking the jetpack at all . i think it brings new fun to some maps and definately new dynamics . its just that some maps have become broken due to its use . so therefore i thought i might bring up the discussion . what do you guys think?

It would probably appear more like a bug than like anything else.

What you already can do, is use target_items to make a field that kills all your fuel. I'd probably prefer that over real "jetpack clip" as what would happen if you jump inside that clip, and THEN use the jetpack while inside? Would you get stuck?

target item feild ? can you elaborate more on this ? if i could use an alternative way and be creative that would suit me

the clip i was thinking about would just shut off the jetpack kinda like an electro magnetic pulse would shut down a car . you still have the previous momentum but can use the JP in the clip feild . i dunno i was just spawning ideas .

Something that just makes you drop out of the sky could be quite funny. Some sort of effect similar to the crylink, just cause the person to drop straight down.

jetpack has really ruined my nexuiz experience , i only have 2 servers i can play in . one has the jetpack the other is old school gameplay . it seems new players like the jetpack and dont care to move on thier own . the other server barely has anyone on it ever . so boredom has struck and the only thing to do is camp on the jetpack server . im really thinking of quiting nexuiz and so are others . it seems like evrything else has an emidiate couterpart to null and void / or exploit a weakness . exisiting maps have nothing to keep from breaking maps with jetpack . and they also have nothing to keep using it on any new map period . there needs to be a clip or something .

You should contact the server admin... The jetpack is turned off by default, and I believe there can be fuel settings preventing big abuses.
I guess that jetpack server has loads of fuel? That would be as stupid as making a server with all weapons, infinite ammo, hook, and reverse CTF with zero gravity


Err

I hope noone thinks that's a good idea. Ew.

ya go check o8 nexican . 99 fuel , camping rifle spawns in place of nex . and the rocket gets spawned by the tag . so ya how do you swat a fly with a pebble (nex) . 300 point fraglimit . long boring games . server adim doesnt care about anything unless it happens to him . but it is a popular server WOW . i guess people dont mind racism and fowl language as long there is a jetpack

Here's my take on the jetpack - as much as the hook gained criticism before, the jetpack is far worse. While the "hook was for n00bs", it did require a certain skill that was different than traditional skill. The US pub ctf scene is hurting badly. hoctf has become a great server for those who go there, but only while players are online. Shutting down Nexican would be terrible on the other hand, as that is the primary server for all the new players. The admin of Nexican will not change the rules, he is the one who decided the default jetpack settings weren't enough to make use of the jetpack so he lowered the fuel usage to minimum and also made the fuel regenerate quicker. The rifle spawns more like 3/4 of the time instead of the 1/2 it's supposed to, and when the admin plays his server it's likely that he will have a nex every spawn, even before picking one up. I'm not going to go throw accusations, but I quit playing there. The server is hurting the Nexuiz community, though, since the n00bs come to hoctf and play 1 or 2 maps, say it is boring, then leave. We are getting greater numbers of players, but we're picking quantity over quality. Somehow we need to push servers like hoctf, hodm, dm ga, and dm ca so players actually get a sense what competitive settings are like. Doku has made great pushes towards servers that "everyone" likes and agreed on, but they're empty way too often and we have to resort to crap if we want some company.

As for target_items: you can do, e.g.:

"classname" "target_items"
"spawnflags" "1"
"ammo_fuel" "-1"

I.e., in radiant, make a brush is common/trigger. Turn it into a target_items entity. Click the "and/min" checkbox, and make a new field called ammo_fuel and set it to -1.

When someone flies into it, he'll lose all his fuel and fall down like a rock. This can be VERY annoying - so PLEASE make this thing visible by adding some decoration (e.g. a force field texture) so jetpackets see what to avoid.

Still, at the default settings, the jetpack should not be that bad as fuel is depleted quite quickly. One actually has to watch the counter. Why the Nexican admin made it use much less fuel is beyond me. Why have fuel at all then, is what I would ask.

Grasshopper wrote:server adim doesnt care about anything unless it happens to him . but it is a popular server WOW . i guess people dont mind racism and fowl language as long there is a jetpack

Server admin is American, he respects free speech as long as it doesnt happen to him.
I have similar rules: people can say whatever they want on my server (I don't have rules, as a rule).

If you have a server and you need people on it, park a client or 2 on that server, if it has a good ping you'll have a bunch of people playing quickly.

As for the argument that X is hurting the "nexuiz society" because Y, thusly we must push out X is the same argument used to justify government tyranny (which never is to help the people in the society, just to force them to pay another tax to some entrenched intrests.)

IE: If peeps like nexican, they like it.

Well, it seems America is going through a bad case of radio-bogenitis.

It will cure on its own, eventually... Don't let that affect your attachment to the game.

thanks mr buogo for the wise words . thanks div for the heads up on the clipp . i will test it out and see if can set an entire field around any map i make and clearly state jetpack null and void . reason being is that anyone using jetpack shouldnt be able to skip the good parts unless the map is specifically made for it

In that case, rather set g_jetpack to 0 in your mapinfo.

The whole point of the jetpack is getting to places to which you otherwise can't or not that easily. If you don't like it, don't enable it. If you do such a workaround, your map simply won't end up on that server at all.

A less insane option would be using the mapinfo to set a higher fuel consumption and slower regeneration. Then you will have chances to actually play your map.

I have heard some discussion that I would be in favor of - making the jetpack an item. This would prevent abuse of it and place it where it was intended. Past that I will just not lay servers that allow the jetpack to work like this.

It already works like that, but the only maps that currently contain it are mikeeusa's.

Once the item is placed on like 10% of the maps, the mutator option will lose interest.

If we have a problem with a growing wave of (non-default, unofficial) (nearly-)unlimited fuel jetpack usage, then it is just that- our problem.

Why? Because we have stuck with too many movement "features" that look a hell of a lot like exploits or bugs outright, or when used in combination. For instance, while not really realistic, ramp jumping is fun, useful and not really imbalancing as is bunny hopping to a lesser extent; but then you have some extreme weapon jumping wherein folks who've developed its trick can move through maps very, very fast, as well as so-called "strafe-jumping" which is just a pure exploit in (very shabby) feature's clothing.

There are two problems with this combination of things. One is that a veteran player well practiced in all these tricks can do a really good job of being extremely difficult to hit and nearly impossible to keep up with or kill, by anyone who doesn't have veteran aiming and weapon usage skills. The other problem is that playing the game in this super-mobility fashion offers kind of odd gameplay (shooting walls to bounce off them all the time, using complex motions and key-combos to simply move forward faster, rarely ever being able to look in the direction you are going in, etc.) that most newer FPS players don't like, when and if they actually come to understand it, so they don't really have any of the motivation needed to get good with it and 'join the club'.

Thus the masses, initially attracted by a free game with high quality graphics, tend to want to get around these nitchy, elitist mobility gameplay mechanics. This can be done either by removing them outright for some servers, or much better, adding a flashy, easy to use/understand and even faster way of getting around- the unlimited (or nearly so) jetpack!

One imbalancing hack deserves another.

Well, I am just against UNLIMITED jetpack. By default, g_jetpack already is nearly unlimited if you use it right. 100 fuel divided by 8 fuel per second = 12.5 seconds of jetpacking. If you just use it in short bursts to get insane speeds after changing direction and losing speed, this lasts nearly forever. If you just go full throttle forward or upward, the speed limit of the jetpack kicks in and fuel usage sinks to about 5 fuel per second = 20 seconds of "noob flying".

Why that server admin reduced fuel usage is beyond me. But also, IMHO it does not break the game much.

Flying Steel wrote:Thus the masses, initially attracted by a free game with high quality graphics, tend to want to get around these nitchy, elitist mobility gameplay mechanics. This can be done either by removing them outright for some servers, or much better, adding a flashy, easy to use/understand and even faster way of getting around- the unlimited (or nearly so) jetpack!

Yea, the jetpack rocks .
When it's enabled on a server it really gets rid of frustration "I want to go there... oops I fsced up and am back on the ground gotta try again for another 5 min" to "once I get more fuel (or it regens) I can get there".

Ofcourse, not every map is good with jetpack, but alot are (It doesn't really break many (or any) of my maps) (I learned a long time ago that to "protect" an area tall walls don't suffice: you need it totally enclosed).

divVerent wrote:Well, I am just against UNLIMITED jetpack.

I know, and I too prefer the jetpack with the current settings; obviously I liked them so much I wanted to see them in the GH as well.

I was just giving what I feel is one of the big and legitimate motivations for why folks choose such a crazy setting- as a way of marginalizing almost over the top and even more gimmicky and oddly difficult available means of getting around at highest available speed while being highly evasive. So folks who want to get rid of one should also want to get rid of the other, or else it is probably just their own personal bias at work, imo.

By default, g_jetpack already is nearly unlimited if you use it right. 100 fuel divided by 8 fuel per second = 12.5 seconds of jetpacking. If you just use it in short bursts to get insane speeds after changing direction and losing speed, this lasts nearly forever. If you just go full throttle forward or upward, the speed limit of the jetpack kicks in and fuel usage sinks to about 5 fuel per second = 20 seconds of "noob flying".

Why that server admin reduced fuel usage is beyond me. But also, IMHO it does not break the game much.

I far as I see it and use it, the JP is air cover. It takes the fight to the enemy faster, for longer (greater survivability through becoming a faster, smaller target) and in some cases more effectively (example- grenade launcher works much better when used from above).

tundramagi wrote:Ofcourse, not every map is good with jetpack, but alot are (It doesn't really break many (or any) of my maps) (I learned a long time ago that to "protect" an area tall walls don't suffice: you need it totally enclosed).

Yeah, what I said above actually applies the most to larger open maps like most of yours.

Here is my view on the jetpack.

I constantly see the jetpack being used as a way for newbies to bail out when they take too much damage. If they screw up in a manner that would normally get them killed, let them die. How are they going to learn, if they do not suffer from their mistakes? Many people on Nexican don't even bunny hop, as they let the jet pack do it for them, and some of them don't even laser jump, because they have a trusty jetpack to help them out.

For now, I'll call the the Jetpack "Nexuiz training wheels for movement newbies".

The jetpack is sadly taking away a reason for newbies to learn how to move, bunny hop, strafe jump, laser jump, and other very useful movement techniques; because they have a single button to do it for them.

I strongly encourage mappers to nerf or disallow the jetpack in their maps (or areas in them) where they feel it would be abused or become detrimental to the experience of the map.

When mappers start doing that, I'll remove the means to do so, as the jetpack NORMALLY is not game breaking.

On the other hand, I may just as well limit the range of jetpack fuel consumption, so one cannot set it as low as the server you are complaining about currently does. Also, at the default jetpack setting, you need skill to use it to be fast, e.g. because the upwards speed is quite low. Usually, to get out of a fight, jetpack alone gets you nowhere, but if you combine it with a laserjump, it's great.

divVerent wrote:When mappers start doing that, I'll remove the means to do so, as the jetpack NORMALLY is not game breaking.

I hope you're not thinking about removing the mutator jetpack at some point?

On the other hand, I may just as well limit the range of jetpack fuel consumption, so one cannot set it as low as the server you are complaining about currently does. Also, at the default jetpack setting, you need skill to use it to be fast, e.g. because the upwards speed is quite low. Usually, to get out of a fight, jetpack alone gets you nowhere, but if you combine it with a laserjump, it's great.

This seems like it would be quite pointless, not only because of the OS codebase, but since the folks who run crazy servers aren't hurting anyone. Those who don't like their settings can just go elsewhere. I myself only go to the server in question when I'm in the mood for alot of flying around and difficult shots, which is very rarely, but that certainly isn't subtracting from my experience; there's plenty more servers out there with more balanced settings or default settings.

AnArKiSt wrote:The jetpack is sadly taking away a reason for newbies to learn how to move, bunny hop, strafe jump, laser jump, and other very useful movement techniques; because they have a single button to do it for them.

So what?

Is it bad to have a more simply, easy and elegate interface to accomplish the same ends?

If the jetpack just allows more folks to be as fast, and you're finding that this level of equality is detracting from your enjoyment of the game, then that is because either:

1) Nexuiz is still set too fast (either for your tastes or balance altogether).

2) You derive most of your satisfaction from 'owning noobs'.

But neither scenario reflects badly on the jetpack itself.

Can we make a jetpack weapon?

A jetpack "weapon" would be perfect. You could make a flamethrower out of it or something, that would add a nice new effect, like a damage over time effect. You could set somebody on fire, and they'll take an amount of damage based on how long the fire is supposed to last and the damage it does per time interval. It would also be cool if the fire effect could be removed by swimming.

Just a thought.

divVerent wrote:When mappers start doing that, I'll remove the means to do so, as the jetpack NORMALLY is not game breaking.

On the other hand, I may just as well limit the range of jetpack fuel consumption, so one cannot set it as low as the server you are complaining about currently does. Also, at the default jetpack setting, you need skill to use it to be fast, e.g. because the upwards speed is quite low. Usually, to get out of a fight, jetpack alone gets you nowhere, but if you combine it with a laserjump, it's great.

Why? Why shouldn't a server admin beable to set the consumption as low as he wants.
If you put restrictions it it will just be removed in the quake C by the admin.

Why should, just because some players are being pwnd by jetpackers on some server... should the jetpack be nerfed. These "eliete" players who complain all the time... they're not the masters of us all.

They think they are ofcourse.

But why shouldn't a server beable to set jetpack consumption to whatever they want?
That's one of the good things about nexuiz: you can do just about anything.

Often i set consumption to nothing and we have dogfights.

AnArKiSt wrote:Here is my view on the jetpack.

I constantly see the jetpack being used as a way for newbies to bail out when they take too much damage. If they screw up in a manner that would normally get them killed, let them die. How are they going to learn, if they do not suffer from their mistakes? Many people on Nexican don't even bunny hop, as they let the jet pack do it for them, and some of them don't even laser jump, because they have a trusty jetpack to help them out.

For now, I'll call the the Jetpack "Nexuiz training wheels for movement newbies".

For now, I'll not care what childish names you proscribe to various features.

As if what you or I called something mattered at all.

AnArKiSt wrote:The jetpack is sadly taking away a reason for newbies to learn how to move, bunny hop, strafe jump, laser jump, and other very useful movement techniques; because they have a single button to do it for them.

I strongly encourage mappers to nerf or disallow the jetpack in their maps (or areas in them) where they feel it would be abused or become detrimental to the experience of the map.

It is not your, nor the mappers decision as to weather or not the admin of the server will enable the jetpack mutator.

Infact, I am feeling the need to make a map that abuses the jetpack to the greatest degree possible, then post it here, and then bask in the hate.

I don't understand why you feel the need to dictate what other people do with their servers.
It's like you think that the "nexuiz society" should be some way and you intend to make sure it is that way.

Go build a map.