That your aim with SG and MG at short distances got worse is certainly the placebo effect, as the shot antilagging is handled the very same way as before. If this is at all antilag related, the nex would not hit either. Some even say the rifle does not have this problem, which proves this is placebo as rifle and MG use the exact same code.

And ballistics by default only change the path of the bullet, not the time. And that does not matter at all at short distance.

Stop spreading lies all the time. Someone started it, and people start believing it even though it makes NO SENSE AT ALL.

alpha wrote:What is your skill level dude?

I'd have to place myself as an intermediate level player. If I want to do something in the game, I know how to do it, now I just need to learn how to make it more health, armor, ammo, and time efficent.

divVerent wrote:That your aim with SG and MG at short distances got worse is certainly the placebo effect, as the shot antilagging is handled the very same way as before. If this is at all antilag related, the nex would not hit either. Some even say the rifle does not have this problem, which proves this is placebo as rifle and MG use the exact same code.

And ballistics by default only change the path of the bullet, not the time. And that does not matter at all at short distance.

Stop spreading lies all the time. Someone started it, and people start believing it even though it makes NO SENSE AT ALL.

Im not so sure its placebo. I experienced severe lacks in antilag (or whatever it is that makes things go wrong) numerous times lately. Its hard to reproduce and i haven't really had time to do a in depth examination of this. here's what I noticed so far: Nexgun seem to be the least affected. CR primary next, cr secondary seem okish most of the time. machine-gun is often really wired, secondary of it somewhat better. shotgun is total gamble. countless times i fired more or less point black without a single hit. secondary seem particularly broken. at the same time some ppl say they have no issues at all with these weapons, which is rather confusing. The only theory I have based from my observations so far is that is seem to be connected with RPS; the more the worse it gets. And since ping 0 (local games) work fine, it seem to be the antilag that's faltering.

Even more proof that it is placebo... and very obviously not ROF related.

It COULD be more related to the spread of the weapon. But actually, I suppose it's the spread that reduces the hit rate just like it should, and no bug.

Point blank without a hit is the same for all weapons - it simply means antilag is far from perfect. But it is independent from the weapon.


UPDATE: There was indeed a bug with antilag for point blank shots. They went through the target, because the shot origin was inside them. Fixed, by also considering antilag for shot origin calculation.

The problem has NOTHING to do with ballistics, but with the new weapons having shot origins farther away from the player.

Doesn't the machine gun still have a high dps? So, isn't it still good in the ons mode and in other cases where the target has a lot of hp?

for dps, hagar is best.

Uzi dps now:
primary = 20 damage, 0.1 refire = 200 dps
secondary = 35 damage, 0.2 refire = 175 dps

Hagar:
both = 37 damage, 0.15 refire = 247dps

Also, for destroying targets, consider riflle:
secondary = 35 damage, 0.12 refire = 291dps (but only in bursts of 8 shots, i.e. total 280 damage)
e.g. empty the rifle on a target, then continue with something else and reload the rifle later

divVerent wrote:That your aim with SG and MG at short distances got worse is certainly the placebo effect, as the shot antilagging is handled the very same way as before. If this is at all antilag related, the nex would not hit either. Some even say the rifle does not have this problem, which proves this is placebo as rifle and MG use the exact same code.

And ballistics by default only change the path of the bullet, not the time. And that does not matter at all at short distance.

Stop spreading lies all the time. Someone started it, and people start believing it even though it makes NO SENSE AT ALL.

Nex doesn't hit on the model either. Which is why I said it MIGHT be broken. I have to shoot generally behind people to hit them, on all models. Either way it could be my ping or whatever, however it was fine a point back in time even while playing on US servers. Now it doesn't work on german ones. Also I'm not the only one that noticed the problem.

Its funny to see however that "balancing all weapons" can only happen with weakening the actual weapon thats under the scope, I mean since 2.3 every weapon got much weaker, and this tendency keeps on continuing with the further weakened nex and rl I guess in Nexuiz 3.0 we will all be shooting with paperball-launchers, causing only mental damage for the attacked person
Also weaker weapons mean longer fighttime that slows the pace of action.

If a too weak weapon is improved, nobody complains - because nobody got "attached" to the weapon because it was weak. So nobody notices, and people claim "weapons are always made weaker".

If a too strong weapon is reduced, people immediately complain - obvious, because due to the weapon being too strong, they got attached to it.

So you are suggesting that instead of reducing damage of a too strong weapon, ALL OTHER weapons should be made stronger to match it? That would take ages, and it is much simpler to just reduce damage of the too strong weapon.

divVerent wrote:If you HAD one weapon which is way weaker than all others in the stats, you'd improve it (unless it's the shotgun

Except that you know you're wrong but your principles do not let you to fix it.

There is merit to having weapons that can have a reasonable chance kill eachother but in diffrent ways. It's the reason chess is so fun (though there is a mega weak weapon (pawn) and a mega strong one (queen bee)), most of the pieces do have pluses and minuses that make them similar in killing power, but tactically useful (or useless) depending on the situation. (To unlock a weapon's full damage you need to know where and when and how to use it.)

I had a match (1 v 1) on atcs and this was shown. It was a very hard match and at the last second he beat me in captures 3 to 2. In that match I choose the weapon based on the spot in the map my opponent was occupying.

I was thinking, maybe we should decrease the uzi's force. That way, each successive hit should be more likely than it is now.

if weapon x is crifle, yeah, destroy it

Chubby wrote:if weapon x is crifle, yeah, destroy it

I agree wholeheartedly. There's no weapon more out-of-place in nexuiz than CR. Oh yeah, and no, it's not "Rifle". It's CAMPING RIFLE. It was the original name, and it STUCK, despite whatever some people want.

alpha wrote:

Chubby wrote:if weapon x is crifle, yeah, destroy it

I agree wholeheartedly. There's no weapon more out-of-place in nexuiz than CR. Oh yeah, and no, it's not "Rifle". It's CAMPING RIFLE. It was the original name, and it STUCK, despite whatever some people want.

I prefer crifle

alpha wrote:There's no weapon more out-of-place in nexuiz than CR.

What do you mean?

☃ (snowman) wrote:

alpha wrote:There's no weapon more out-of-place in nexuiz than CR.

What do you mean?

He means that someone he doesn't like came up with it so now he's going to try and have it removed.

Alpha is a spiteful type. A 17 year old one at that.

For the next W weeks Alpha and pehaps chubby will lead a campaign to have the camping rifle removed. Like alpha's campaign to nerf the Nex, it will very likely succede.

I really hate this. Player X wants something removed, it is removed. Player X wants something nerfed, it is nerfed.

Maybe we need a Non-Alpha fork of nexuiz, where Alphas demands are ignored and anyone who campaigns for months to remove some feature is banned?

You know, with all this stuff happening all the time, it kinda makes me want to go away, so I don't have to know about this anymore.

Whenever something new is created or added some asshole player has to come and demand it be removed. They're not forced to use the new thing, but they need it removed.

Like Alpha, or chubby.

And often they get their wish.
Why should anyone care to hang around if a sefish fuck like Alpha can lobby and have their work deleted? Alpha doesn't do shit, EVER. Neither does chubby, neither does ANY of the players who demand things be _removed_. Yet they have sway. The wind carries their voice.

Players should never have the ability to get some option removed. If they want some additional option they can code it, or model it, or do whatever they want to make it a reality... but no they never do that because really they do not give a damn in hell (and that's pretty cheap) about Nexuiz, all that they care about is their OWN SKILL, and maintining that through ANY MEANS: ESPECIALLY BY MAKING DAMN SURE THAT THE GAME NEVER HAS THE POSSIBILITY OF CHANGING FROM WHATEVER STATE THEY FOUND IT IN.

If there are no new possible challenges on any server than the player can retain his domination without learning new skills or how to counter them: he only has to maintain his existing abilities and tricks.

When you remove a feature you delete the original code and any additional code that went into it, you delete the model or models another man made to support that code, you nullify and degrade whatever maps still other men made with that feature in mind.

You disrespect and throw out the work of so many men, and for what? So that some players that do nothing but play, who will eventually move on to some other game and feed on that developer and forum community before moving on to yet another game, can maintain the elietness for whatever extended period they choose to haunt the atmosphere.

Nexuiz is good because it keeps expanding, not because Alpha has a high frag to death ratio, and certainly not because he can maintain that.

(Note: Ofcourse, those are just my views and mine alone)

I won't start a fricking campaign to remove it. Why would I? The weapon might be a piece of crap, but it will never be fully removed by a fricking campaign. Imagine it will be removed. You will start writing hatetopics and hide behind ur anti-women shit.

Hehe, you call a piece of crap a feature? Dude, go get yourself checked.



And of course, I don't want a ban on AT. Starting campaigns like these only help you get in trouble with other peeps. I don't want those troubles.

tundramagi wrote:For the next W weeks Alpha and pehaps chubby will lead a campaign to have the camping rifle removed. Like alpha's campaign to nerf the Nex, it will very likely succede.

Heh, I always thought the camping rifle was already the result of some kind of "campaign to nerf the nex".

Alright before the shitstorm starts heres what I've seen so far from the nex being replaced with the CR on the [NL] Ctf server with random nex spawns:

-Space maps while already broken, are even more broken. This is because it becomes extremely difficult to kill campers that have a nex, because the CR is effectively useless against them despite its higher fire rate you just end up fragged.

Also people rocket jumping, lasering in the air etc. as you are all aware far more difficult to hit with projectile weapons than something hitscan. This simply leads to people laser jumping around like an epileptic watching hypnotoad and capping every which way and that.

-On other smaller indoor/semi-indoor maps however the lack of nex can be quite fun. It does stop people camping quite so much and initiates an awful lot more close combat which is fun I think hydronex may be good for this, symdusty2 certainly was but its not really nex dependant anyway.

-It becomes increasingly difficult to kill people who have invulnerability/highly stacked health as the nex was a staple of more push/damage doing. No the rocket launcher etc. just doesn't quite do it because of these people will be moving very fast rendering it and other weapons almost useless.

So I dont know if my opinion is flavoured or not, but I'd say the balance changes can be quite map dependant. It really depends a lot on the kind of game you play.

I'll play more games once I'm back on Monday and post some more feedback. Oh and I actually quite like the CR its fun to get random mid air headshots.

why dont we nerf Mikee

Camping Rifle is a valid replacement for the Nex as a long range sniping platform, it has nice model, and it was conceptualized by div0, therefore it will never be removed.

TVR wrote:Camping Rifle is a valid replacement for the Nex as a long range sniping platform

With some nice little ballistics? And no ability to combo with other weapons due to stupid reload-after-every-shot-and-weapon-switch?

TVR wrote:and it was conceptualized by div0

Frankly, that doesn't make it any better. Errare humanum est.

The CR is a pretty straightforward/standard ballistic type weapon, so disliking it as whole seems kind of nuts. If someone has a problem with how it works, it might be alot more constructive to talk about what that is specifically, and then suggest a change to it or weapon(s) it competes with like the Nex.

Example 1: CR doesn't deliver enough damage over time to make up for lack of burst damage versus Nex, suggest reducing or removing outright the reload period.

Example 2: CR gets creamed by Nex because of combination of non-hitscan reduced accuracy and lack of insta-kill against unarmored opponents, recommend matching headshot damage of CR to Nex and body shot to 75% of that.

Example 3: Unless someone else can think of something I've missed, there doesn't seem to be a way of making the CR stronger against the Nex without making it too powerful against other weapons, so I would reduce the Nex damage down to 100.

Those are just examples, of course, my own opinion is that the CR is already a great weapon all around, but I haven't had enough opportunites to test it against the new nerfed Nex to come to a conclusion.

It's is absolutlely hillarious to see Alpha on one hand demand the Nex be nerfed (when other people are using it), but then complain when it's not one a map when HE want's to use it.

Make no mistake: Alpha's campaing he's trying to start against the CR are purely motivated by the fact that a person behind it's refinement said "NO" to some of his feature/nerfing/whatever demands, and some people who like the CR are also people Alpha doesn't really get along with. (I like the CR, alpha and I don't get along.)

I bet he also hates when he's behing a 2 qu pice of map and the bullet goes through that and frags him.

Flying Steel wrote:but I haven't had enough opportunites to test it

So you basically write a pointless wall of text without even properly testing CR?

tundramagi wrote:blah

bleh

alpha wrote:... With some nice little ballistics? ...

Ballistics will forever remain in place as an anti-aimbot measure, Camping Rifle is meant for rapid bursts of eight shots.

_______________________________

alpha wrote:... And no ability to combo with other weapons due to stupid reload-after-every-shot-and-weapon-switch? ...

TVR wrote:Camping Rifle is ... a long range sniping platform

Camping Rifle is meant to replace the Nex at sniping, for which the one-shot anywhere nature of a hit-or-miss weapon becomes overpowered.

_______________________________

alpha wrote:

TVR wrote:and it was conceptualized by div0

Frankly, that doesn't make it any better. Errare humanum est.

The quality is irrelevant, div0, the only developer, can do whatever he wants with the main distribution of Nexuiz.

Since he created the Camping Rifle, it is reasonable to assume he will keep the Camping Rifle.

_______________________________

Flying Steel wrote:Example 3: Unless someone else can think of something I've missed, there doesn't seem to be a way of making the CR stronger against the Nex without making it too powerful against other weapons, so I would reduce the Nex damage down to 100.

I don't think that's a good way to balance it. The damage is fine IMO. I really think you guys should either consider giving the nex it's own ammo or giving it a small warm-up time.

alpha wrote:

Flying Steel wrote:but I haven't had enough opportunites to test it

You only quoted part of what I said and took it out of context. Was that intentional perhaps? If you had bothered to read the words immediately following those, you would have understood the whole statement:

Flying Steel wrote:but I haven't had enough opportunites to test it against the new nerfed Nex to come to a conclusion.

So you basically write a pointless wall of text

That looks like a wall of text to you? Sorry man, I didn't know you suffered from a reading disability, I'll try not to interpret your ignorance as intentional bullshit in the future.

without even properly testing CR?

Not everyone's standards for "proper testing" are the same as yours.

I like the CR's kind of fighting and have spent alot of time with it, but I don't feel it is available enough on maps where the ping is good enough, for me to have had enough fights between myself and good players, using the Nex and CR, that I'd yet trust my judgement over the dev team's, who have a good reputation for making a really well balanced arsenal, given a little time and folks having the patience to learn how each weapon works, and when.