NEW RULE: NO FUCKING TROLLS!..
TVR don't post again, please. This is supposed to be an intelligent conversation. That includes anyone else who simply wants to say "NOWAI."


Right now in the Nexuiz community, there is a group of people who feel the game needs to change in order to grow the competitive community. These people are at the point that they're willing to in a sense "Fork the project," just so that they can remove the features/problems i'm going to list below. I personally do not agree with most of their complaints, but these are the opinions of the majority of the competitive community. We at least owe them the respect to look at what they have to say.

The first list is of current problems which are evident in 2.5 and 2.5.1.... The second is of possible future problems which will influence how the game changes over time.

~~~~~~~~~~Current Problems~~~~~~~~~~
#1: Jetpack
Their view: Most people are fine with the use of a jetpack for race maps, however some dislike the idea of having the jetpack available for other game modes such as deathmatch and CTF type matches. Servers that take advantage of this (Nexican, and select others) are said to ruin the competitive community, because it shows them a ticket out of learning how to move faster. The community proposed that we make the jetpack only available to race maps (And Nexball) and have no exceptions.

My view: Although the point above is a valid one, I think the idea here is that the public servers need to see their responsibility of what they choose to do. For a good comparison, a server could turn off the view tracing method which prevents wallhacking. It would make the game easier to play, but it's still a very bad thing. I think server admins should look at what they're doing to the community when they choose to add things. But then again, I look at the other view. Some people compare the jetpack to the hook, and the hook was taken with the same hate that the jetpack is taking right now. The hook eventually integrated into the eyes of players as a viable fun feature, and is now widely accepted. This pops the question if removing the jetpack would either hurt the community (As removing the hook would do), or if we should simply keep it due to the eventual acceptance of it on the public servers.

#2: 2.5.x weapons
Their view: For the most part, the community dislikes or even hates most if not all the weapons added in 2.5.x.. The tag and camping rifle are usually the least accepted weapons throughout the game. Claiming that they don't add any functionality to the game, and simply are annoying. The majority says we should remove the 2.5.x weapons : HLAC, Seeker, and Camping Rifle. And that we should revert back to the original hook.

My view: *Sigh*... The only weapon that I agree with being useless, is the camping rifle. For the most part, it ruins gameplay due to the auto reload function. This being the only gun with reload, it really stands out like a sore thumb. The fact that it reloads automatically even if you have some ammo left to fire doesn't help. The model doesn't really fit the rest of the game aswell. I propose we either remove the camping rifle, or we change the reload system to not be automatic. (Issue here)

Extra: I've ran into very few people who think the mortars model is too large, as with a few other weapons. They think that the mortar (And other weapons) should be resized to a reasonable level. Also, they dislike the shotorigin in 2.5.x (Which is realistic now)... I don't blame them, as it can be annoying to shoot yourself... but we added a feature to display when an object is going to hit where it shouldn't hit, so this is not a problem. Either way I personally ENTIRELY disagree with both of those complaints... as the weapons seem to be JUST FINE!

#3: Physics
Some people simply do not like the physics..... I don't know why, so I'm not even going to separate this.. I'll just leave it like this: I disagree, I like the 2.5 physics a lot.

EDIT: I forgot one thing....

#4: Random powerups timing
Their view: Essentially, almost everyone i've seen hates this idea. I'm serious, and I really don't know why as it really doesn't effect gameplay that much. They want the old timing back though.

My view: It makes the game better.. so I like it.


~~~~~~~~~~Future Problems~~~~~~~~~~
#1: Nex Nerfing And Replacement
Let me start off by saying I entirely disagree with nerfing the Nex (At least in the amounts some devs want to). There has been discussion to gradually introduce more and more nerfing to the nex, as they claim that it is the least balanced weapon and turns matches into what seems like minsta matches most the time. The main problem here is that they forgot two things.

#1: The Nex has a VERY balanced damage even at 130 (Which Btw, it's 110 now) when compared to the amount of damage you can do with other weapons in the same amount of time. I know any good player can do the same amount or even more damage in 5 seconds with a mortar, versus 5 seconds with a nex. The reality is that the nex has no splash, it has no detonation, so the Nex requires good aim to do anything really. Even most really good players only get 20% to 30% hits on a 1v1.... That's just saying how likely it is. Now, removing spam shots, you would get a much higher percentage for other weapons because they simply have larger damage fields. When you look at the g_balance settings, you can clearly see that the Nex is equal or even less powerful than other weapons. Now, one may bring up "Ok, but Nex is better at long range." This is indeed true, but any idiot knows that if they're fighting against a nex with a rocket launcher, fight in close range! The nex player has no chance in a tight situation even if you're playing against a good player.

#2: This leads into the second point. div0 got his data from public servers, where there aren't any good competitive players. This means, he sees noobs using the Nex more than the rocketlauncher (Which is obviously because they don't know how to use it properly) even though the nex is the same power. I should also point out that the average public server accuracy with a nex is very low. Dokujisan has offered to give div0 the stats logs from his servers, which means we will hopefully get good data from good players. The reality is that most noobs don't know how to use the mortar and rocket launcher very well, so they use the Nex. But even so, their aim is usually not good enough to make a big difference.

What the community wants?

We want to have a settings freeze. In other words, we want the physics and balance of all weapons to remain the same throughout future versions. Now this would not effect the act of adding new weapons (Such as the tuba), however, it would effect released weapons. Since the majority of the server admins and ladder admins i've seen agree with this, if the default settings change to something we don't like, we will use our own settings on the servers. This means ladder servers, private servers, and even a good majority of the public servers would have this underground balance and physics. We hope it doesn't come to this though, as it would make a patchy experience. However, we will do what we must.

I think it's important that we have a settings freeze, as it provides stability to the game. It makes the game feel solid, and it gives a global experience. As of 2.5.1, the Nex is balanced at 110 damage. This is a fine level, and any lower is possibly going to trigger a community settings freeze as I said above.

Settings freezes have exception to situation changes.... For example, if an aimbot is released. But before we change settings or add things, we need to weigh the pros and cons of it.







I'm sure there are other things people dislike, and I will add them as soon as I confirm them. As for now, this is what stands and what needs to be looked at. I want to note that a lot of things the developers do is for the greater good... even if the community may not like a feature, there is always a good reason we add the feature.

P.S.: I didn't add things that I think are absurd and retarded... I swear if you post something that is either of those things, i'm going to kick your ass.

yet another discussion

Samual wrote:... The community proposed that we make the jetpack only available to race maps ...

People are obsessed with enforcing their defaults; it's like they don't understand this is a Free, Libre, and Open-source project, and shouldn't be arbitrarily restricted.

Samual wrote:... The hook eventually integrated into the eyes of players as a viable fun feature, and is now widely accepted ...

Except offhand functionality has been removed, R.I.P. Herforst.

Samual wrote:... The majority says we should remove the 2.5.x weapons : HLAC, Seeker, and Camping Rifle ...

Each of the weapons outside the nine core DM weapons should not be considered on terms with the core, but rather these as fun extras that keep div0 a developer.

Samual wrote:... I propose we either remove the camping rifle, or ...

Camping Rifle will never be removed, it's conception by div0 guarantees its continued inclusion.

This weapon is actually an experiment by div0 to design an aimbot-proof long range hitscan weapon to replace the Nex, its ballistic trajectory and refire rate reflects this.

Servers are free to set their defaults as they wish. Players are free to set up their own game and servers as they wish.

Those players who demand that freedom of setting the game up as one desires be removed should themselves be removed.

They do not have to play on the servers that they don't like, but the fact is they want to force popular servers to obey their own defaults so that they can play against lots of people with their defaults. The thing is those players would rather play with the defaults that the popular servers provide because those players ENJOY the game better that way.

They desire to control and increase their own enjoyment at the expense of the developers and most other players.

tundramagi wrote:Servers are free to set their defaults as they wish. Players are free to set up their own game and servers as they wish.

Those players who demand that freedom of setting the game up as one desires be removed should themselves be removed.

They do not have to play on the servers that they don't like, but the fact is they want to force popular servers to obey their own defaults so that they can play against lots of people with their defaults. The thing is those players would rather play with the defaults that the popular servers provide because those players ENJOY the game better that way.

They desire to control and increase their own enjoyment at the expense of the developers and most other players.

Well they have a good point though, which is that the servers that promote nooby behavior don't help the players get better at all... Which means the competitive community really doesn't grow, it just stands still.

Samual wrote:... which is that the servers that promote nooby behavior don't help the players get better at all ...

People play Nexuiz to have fun, whatever they do is irrelevant and not something to be dictated.

Player towers require anti-competitive behavior, but are significant in Nexuiz' history.

I don't like to play CTF with jetpack because I think it breaks ctf for the most part, so I don't play on servers with jetpack enabled. End of.

TVR wrote:

Samual wrote:... which is that the servers that promote nooby behavior don't help the players get better at all ...

People play Nexuiz to have fun, whatever they do is irrelevant and not something to be dictated.

Player towers require anti-competitive behavior, but are significant in Nexuiz' history.

I didn't want to jump into this flamewar but I gotta say that comparing player towers to jet packs is apples to oranges.


It's doubtful that a new player would join a server and see players making towers and say to themselves "oh, so this is how the game is played, this is the default behavior"

Compare that scenario with jetpacks and you'll see a reality riddled across the internet with the 2.5 release where new players are complaining about what they ASSUMED was default behavior of the game.


I'm all for server admins having choice in how they run their servers but acting like these decisions don't impact the community is just irresponsible.

My point exactly... The server admins have the choice, but they need to be smart with things like this.

Samual wrote:My point exactly... The server admins have the choice, but they need to be smart with things like this.

Putting it that way implies they are being 'dumb' in the first place. It's a fine line because everyone has their idea of what's best for the community... or simply do not care what is best for the community and want what is best for them.

Raising awareness of settings and mutators that aren't considered the default is a start.

Crap that's designed by committie is crap.
Stuff that's designed by designers (programmers etc) is often good.

Samual, could you personally contact each of these players and tell them they can go to hell?
"Wahh, optional things we don't like is in the game which can optionally be used by people who LIKE them and mappers who LIKE them"

Could you please, meanly, say as a blog I read says: "Go pound sand" to those players?
Be like "Pound SAND!"

I will make sure I add a camping rifle, hlac, and seeker to many of my maps because of these players that hate those weapons. If they don't like it they can learn to use the weapon swap out commands (which they won't because they are damned lazy or retarded.)

Send them my regards and tell those players that I, for one, don't like them (and they can pound the hell out of sand.) (not that that matters )

tundramagi wrote:Crap that's designed by committie is crap.
Stuff that's designed by designers (programmers etc) is often good.

Samuel, could you personally contact each of these players and tell them they can go to hell?
"Wahh, optional things we don't like is in the game which can optionally be used by people who LIKE them and mappers who LIKE them"

Could you please, meanly, say as a blog I read says: "Go pound sand" to those players?
Be like "Pound SAND!"

I will make sure I add a camping rifle, hlac, and seeker to many of my maps because of these players that hate those weapons. If they don't like it they can learn to use the weapon swap out commands (which they won't because they are damned lazy or retarded.)

Send them my regards and tell those players that I, for one, don't like them (and they can pound the hell out of sand.) (not that that matters )

Hmm... you spelled my name wrong... So no, I will not do what you asked

Samual wrote:

tundramagi wrote:Crap that's designed by committie is crap.
Stuff that's designed by designers (programmers etc) is often good.

Samuel, could you personally contact each of these players and tell them they can go to hell?
"Wahh, optional things we don't like is in the game which can optionally be used by people who LIKE them and mappers who LIKE them"

Could you please, meanly, say as a blog I read says: "Go pound sand" to those players?
Be like "Pound SAND!"

I will make sure I add a camping rifle, hlac, and seeker to many of my maps because of these players that hate those weapons. If they don't like it they can learn to use the weapon swap out commands (which they won't because they are damned lazy or retarded.)

Send them my regards and tell those players that I, for one, don't like them (and they can pound the hell out of sand.) (not that that matters )

Hmm... you spelled my name wrong... So no, I will not do what you asked

I fixed it.

[-z-] wrote:... but acting like these decisions don't impact the community is just irresponsible

Every server attracts players, regardless of settings; players playing non-standard Nexuiz are still players playing Nexuiz.

Restricting modification of Nexuiz will not cause players to migrate to standard servers, but rather other, more fun games.

Nexuiz is completely GNU GPL v2, treat it if it were.

In general there will always be a portion of players that like what they know and are used to and dislike what they don't know. I'd say Nexuiz is not the right game for them since it has been changing pretty radically from release to release and I hope it will continue to do so. Seriously, would you dare make a bet on what will be in Nexuiz 2.6? Isn't that a big part of what makes it exciting to be involved?

I think the discussion can only be about what should be the default behaviour of a server. If a server admin needs to take an action to turn on the jetpack on their server, then obviously this is something they enjoy and think others will enjoy and is their full right. If jetpack were on by default in every gamemode and every server unless some admin turned it off, then the point would be valid. Since it isn't, I'm with TVR 100% on this. What people do in their spare time on servers they pay for might not be what you enjoy. Well blimey, start your own servers with your own settings :}

well, imo, the jetpack should NOT be used for CTF Games. It's awsome for race. it would be to easy to cap with a jetpack. Then make another gametype, where you only have minstanex and a jetpack or an other combination with weps. If the laser is disabled it's ok to use jetpack.

the 2.5.x weps........ Let the HLAC stay and minstanex stay. Rest is rather useless, especially the crifle.

physics.... nothing wrong with them if you ask me.

Chubby wrote:well, imo, the jetpack should NOT be used for CTF Games. It's awsome for race. it would be to easy to cap with a jetpack. Then make another gametype, where you only have minstanex and a jetpack or an other combination with weps. If the laser is disabled it's ok to use jetpack.

the 2.5.x weps........ Let the HLAC stay and minstanex stay. Rest is rather useless, especially the crifle.

physics.... nothing wrong with them if you ask me.

Finally some people who are intelligent/not a troll.... Yes...... I agree, but the tag isn't that useless... It's very much so fun when playing on large maps.

The Camping Rifle is designed to be balanced with the other weapons, as opposed to the Nex which is unfixable and all-powerful. The restriction that it isn't usable for combos is an elementary requirement to get a weapon like this balanced. In exchange, you get headshots and WAY higher damage and refire rate than the Nex.

If I'd remove the reload from the rifle, I'd have to reduce damage a LOT in exchange, which would make the weapon really useless.

As for jetpack and hook: we often read this argument that these ruin gameplay because people behave "noobish" using them and own. However, this is coming from people who are actually too proud of themselves to learn something now. The guys who complain are actually the noobs, not the people who learned how to use hook or jetpack! Note that both of them DO take skill to use them in an effective way. In case of hook, for effective use you have to aim close to you on the floor, and NOT try to hook to ceilings or long distance. In case of the jetpack, if you use it to fly around like a bird, you run out of fuel and end up falling down in the most unfortunate occasions. You ACTUALLY have to use it in short bursts to get high speed, and then continue with bunnyhopping. If you know these techniques for the two devices, you'll outrun any "noob" with them.

divVerent wrote:The Camping Rifle is designed to be balanced with the other weapons, as opposed to the Nex which is unfixable and all-powerful. The restriction that it isn't usable for combos is an elementary requirement to get a weapon like this balanced. In exchange, you get headshots and WAY higher damage and refire rate than the Nex.

If I'd remove the reload from the rifle, I'd have to reduce damage a LOT in exchange, which would make the weapon really useless.

As for jetpack and hook: we often read this argument that these ruin gameplay because people behave "noobish" using them and own. However, this is coming from people who are actually too proud of themselves to learn something now. The guys who complain are actually the noobs, not the people who learned how to use hook or jetpack! Note that both of them DO take skill to use them in an effective way. In case of hook, for effective use you have to aim close to you on the floor, and NOT try to hook to ceilings or long distance. In case of the jetpack, if you use it to fly around like a bird, you run out of fuel and end up falling down in the most unfortunate occasions. You ACTUALLY have to use it in short bursts to get high speed, and then continue with bunnyhopping. If you know these techniques for the two devices, you'll outrun any "noob" with them.

Thank you.

Samual wrote:Some people compare the jetpack to the hook, and the hook was taken with the same hate that the jetpack is taking right now. The hook eventually integrated into the eyes of players as a viable fun feature, and is now widely accepted

Uuuuuuuuuuh. I don't see the hook as widely accepted. It's still as annoying as it was before imho.

TVR wrote:Except offhand functionality has been removed, R.I.P. Herforst.

Sorry, but this is wrong. Setting g_start_weapon_hook to 0 won't let you spawn with the hook. So if g_grappling_hook is set to 1, you'll get the offhand instead.

TVR wrote:Each of the weapons outside the nine core DM weapons should not be considered on terms with the core, but rather these as fun extras that keep div0 a developer.

I don't remember anyone saying these weapon implementations were done for fun... However, I remember a huge demand for new weapons.

TVR wrote:This weapon is actually an experiment by div0 to design an aimbot-proof long range hitscan weapon to replace the Nex, its ballistic trajectory and refire rate reflects this.

Exactly, the rifle is annoying *on purpose*. I agree that reloading should be more in control of the player, though.

TVR wrote:

Samual wrote:... which is that the servers that promote nooby behavior don't help the players get better at all ...

People play Nexuiz to have fun, whatever they do is irrelevant and not something to be dictated.

Player towers require anti-competitive behavior, but are significant in Nexuiz' history.

This is sad, but true... I'd like to see nexican go offline, but it's popular for a reason I guess. People are not forced to join that thing.

divVerent wrote:As for jetpack and hook: we often read this argument that these ruin gameplay because people behave "noobish" using them and own. However, this is coming from people who are actually too proud of themselves to learn something now. The guys who complain are actually the noobs, not the people who learned how to use hook or jetpack! Note that both of them DO take skill to use them in an effective way. In case of hook, for effective use you have to aim close to you on the floor, and NOT try to hook to ceilings or long distance. In case of the jetpack, if you use it to fly around like a bird, you run out of fuel and end up falling down in the most unfortunate occasions. You ACTUALLY have to use it in short bursts to get high speed, and then continue with bunnyhopping. If you know these techniques for the two devices, you'll outrun any "noob" with them.

Wasn't that exactly what some people said about rocketjumps?
I can't stand having jetpacks on ctf servers, and I certainly don't want to use it myself to balance things!
I know how to use it. I know how to rocketjump as well. But I don't, as I know it ruins the fun for a majority of players, myself included.

Physics: Well, I started playing in december last year, and when I played on servers people were lighting fast. First with the new physics I could start to finally move around. As such its better for noobs, which hopefully, in gives more long term players. I really like the physics, I can even dodge rockets on occation and "mmmmm" air control!

Regarding the jetpack. I dont play ctf or race and im still in the "noob layer" (there are many layers when it comes to that, apparently) but having said that and besides the already mentioned the server admins have a choice. Its just like players who stick around on a "noob" server even though they could move on and play on a server with "better" players, they have some reason for it, I guess. So yes its all about choices still. I mean, I haven't gotten ehm.. used to the nex yet, since A: I started playing nexuiz on my thinkpad x60 with the insanely hyper fast intel gma950, B: I really like the mortar and its fun. C: Im a lazy sob. These "reasons", have the consequence that I cant hit a barn with the nex and mutter nex******, on occasion. Well, and thats a choice I make, If I dont like it, then I simple have to learn how to use the nex.

I really look forward to the random powerup thingys when its deployed so I dont have to deal with these "pure mentality 14 year old script kids", I mean.. wtf.. So its a really good thing this. lol even though I just started to time them on just feeling myself. Next thing on the wish list is either maps with just a bit diffrent textures or a option to turn on full bright skins with tubas for grey players or whatever skincolor on certain maps.

Mr. Bougo wrote:

divVerent wrote:As for jetpack and hook: we often read this argument that these ruin gameplay because people behave "noobish" using them and own. However, this is coming from people who are actually too proud of themselves to learn something now. The guys who complain are actually the noobs, not the people who learned how to use hook or jetpack! Note that both of them DO take skill to use them in an effective way. In case of hook, for effective use you have to aim close to you on the floor, and NOT try to hook to ceilings or long distance. In case of the jetpack, if you use it to fly around like a bird, you run out of fuel and end up falling down in the most unfortunate occasions. You ACTUALLY have to use it in short bursts to get high speed, and then continue with bunnyhopping. If you know these techniques for the two devices, you'll outrun any "noob" with them.

Wasn't that exactly what some people said about rocketjumps?
I can't stand having jetpacks on ctf servers, and I certainly don't want to use it myself to balance things!
I know how to use it. I know how to rocketjump as well. But I don't, as I know it ruins the fun for a majority of players, myself included.

As for rocketjumps vs jetpack: true, but this was never intentional with the rocket launcher, while being able to be fast is purely intentional with the jetpack. Also, nobody claimed that rocketjump abusers were "noobish".

Still, I'd be highly against making the jetpack enabled by default (and same goes for the hook). Neither should it be on by default on race. On race, it should be ALWAYS the mapper's decision, as race maps highly depend on game physics. For other game modes, it should ALWAYS be the server admin's decision (however, the mapper is free to put the jetpack as pickup item on the map... but he should always try to avoid enabling the jetpack by default on his maps).

On the other hand, the game should not forbid the server admin to enable the jetpack e.g. in CTF. Farthest one can go is a HUGE warning in the cfg... although I think such a warning would entice server admins to enable it even more.

Hey guys :
Physics thingy i suppose its more than ok, i cant even remember the older versions now.
New weapons, hey guys they are not useless at all! HLAC primary is an excellent finisher in combos, and tag secondary imo trully stands out in short range combat, avoiding any self damage as well. needless to point out the huge fun-factor of the primary. finally, crifle, well the secondary is really really nice, imo 2 strong maybe : ) so 4 ex, in eggsnbacon (btw i ll jsut head to prepare some scottish breakfast, black pudding sepi heh? ) i always take some extra time to have this gun ready and reloaded, cause when i launch its secondary fire in relative short range distances, its lethal and fast.
As for the jetpack, its also fun, i m with sepelio on this. dont like to play with it, doesnt mean i condemn it : )
And indeed, considering myself not that noobish, but purely playing for fun, my experience is greatly enhanced in 2.5 .
cheers

The only things I can think of that need to be corrected are the bad-assness of the mortar vs the Rocket Launcher. I personally feel those two weapons need to be reworked to be more balanced against each other. The new weapons are exactly that: new so naturally they're not going to be super amazing at the beginning, but then again you can always choose to disable them. The main annoyance I have is the Rocket Launcher's velocity-to-damage ratio aint great and the nade launcher seems over-powered against it. Also I found that ONS Reborn is best played with jetpacks. As for the new physics: I like them A LOT more than the previous ones, the only thing I would do different is give the players less air control, but that's just personal preference.

It's no surprise that terrain maps work best with jetpack. Terrain maps are very hard to move around on normally... also, this concept Terrain+Jetpack worked great in Tribes.

however, do we really NEED terrain maps?

divVerent wrote:It's no surprise that terrain maps work best with jetpack. Terrain maps are very hard to move around on normally...

however, do we really NEED terrain maps?

To be a smart-ass I'm going to say that all I really NEED is:
Food
Water
(maybe) A roof over my head

OK enough bull. Many different maps offer many different styles of play and keep the game fresh, which is one of the key things that makes this better than the later UT (2k3, 2k4, UT3) games and Quake III in my opinion. So it's not really a bad idea for mappers to be creating terrain maps. ONS Reborn with HLACs, Jetpacks, and Crifles from what I can imagine would be a hell of a lot of fun to play.

divVerent wrote:

Mr. Bougo wrote:Wasn't that exactly what some people said about rocketjumps?
I can't stand having jetpacks on ctf servers, and I certainly don't want to use it myself to balance things!
I know how to use it. I know how to rocketjump as well. But I don't, as I know it ruins the fun for a majority of players, myself included.

As for rocketjumps vs jetpack: true, but this was never intentional with the rocket launcher, while being able to be fast is purely intentional with the jetpack. Also, nobody claimed that rocketjump abusers were "noobish".

Still, I'd be highly against making the jetpack enabled by default (and same goes for the hook). Neither should it be on by default on race. On race, it should be ALWAYS the mapper's decision, as race maps highly depend on game physics. For other game modes, it should ALWAYS be the server admin's decision (however, the mapper is free to put the jetpack as pickup item on the map... but he should always try to avoid enabling the jetpack by default on his maps).

On the other hand, the game should not forbid the server admin to enable the jetpack e.g. in CTF. Farthest one can go is a HUGE warning in the cfg... although I think such a warning would entice server admins to enable it even more.

Okay, I agree with you there


About terrain maps, we played that terrain nexball map with the jetpack and it was awesome fun times.
The jetpack on huge terrain maps is excellent, really fun.

So MAYBE, we should get some new huge terrain maps with jetpack available as items...

and people will like this map as "it's the one with the jetpacks", and play less on Nexican?

Wow, I initially wasn't going to post here because I thought after a couple post it would be a troll war but it turned out fine, I'm impressed.

The problem is not new features such as jetpack or new weapons, the problem is users joining the same server all the time, and sadly that server is Nexican. IMO Nexican should be considered a "special" server with fun settings, but the majority of newbies obviously will always join that server because that's where everyone is playing. So those players either will never have any idea how awesome and competitive and strategic nexuiz can be or they will stop playing because no matter how long they long they won't be making any progress in skills. This is obviously my opinion, I have no problem admitting that to use the jetpack well you have to practice and acquire skill with it. To me, it's just that playing with jetpack doesn't feel like playing nexuiz but playing a different game. And then, when the players having only played nexuiz on that server want to play the game more seriously and do some research and find out about our tiny competitive community, they join servers without jetpacks and then it takes them weeks to relearn how to move and aim.

We could make a list of cvars, and mark servers specially that have these cvars changed.

Which cvars, except for g_start_weapon_*, g_grappling_hook and g_jetpack would you include there?