Voting in general ingame works pretty well, were it not for the fact that people tend to be lazy asses almost all the time.

It's hard to get votes through in larger games, as many people just don't bother to vote.

Suppose you need seven people to pass a vote on a map of 12 which is full.
3 vote yes
3 vote no
0 vote don't care.
6 don't vote.

This basically means that the people who don't vote are added to "no" voters, as the results is always the exact same: the vote not succeeding.

Shouldn't the non-voters be added to the "don't care" list instead of helping achieve the effect of not voting at all?

no because sometimes people have a reason not to vote, like their life is on the line or something, or people dont want a new map. just find a different server with that map or start your own dedicated server.

IMO votes should never end as "timed out"; whichever option gets the most votes out of people who voted should win. Those who don't vote either don't care or do care and will actually vote yes or no the next time a vote is called.

parasti wrote:IMO votes should never end as "timed out"; whichever option gets the most votes out of people who voted should win. Those who don't vote either don't care or do care and will actually vote yes or no the next time a vote is called.

This. At the moment democracy doesnt work. If you dont vote in game then you dont have the right to complain if the map changes due to your apathy.

Mizu Kitsune wrote:or people dont want a new map. .

so they vote "No".
I think people who don't vote should count as "don't care" or don't change anything

they dont vote no because they know if they do, a new vote will arise, this is seen clearly in quake live.

There is already cvars for such a voting mode...

however, as seen in Tremulous, it's then very easy to get rid of an enemy by calling a vote to kick him while he's very busy with actually playing (so he has no time to look at the vote).

A compromise of that is running on my server: it is EITHER 50% of the players, OR 67% of the voters ("2/3 majority"). So a single vote against suffices to stop two yes voters, which in almost all cases stops abusive kick votes.

Mizu Kitsune wrote:like their life is on the line or something

The hell???

Mizu Kitsune wrote:or people dont want a new map.

Than vote "no", it's the same effect.

Mizu Kitsune wrote:they dont vote no because they know if they do, a new vote will arise, this is seen clearly in quake live.

That's quake live, this is Nexuiz.

divVerent wrote:however, as seen in Tremulous, it's then very easy to get rid of an enemy by calling a vote to kick him while he's very busy with actually playing (so he has no time to look at the vote).

1) Who the hell does that? The only people I have ever seen up for kicking in the last 2 years are teamkillers and people who go NADZNADZNADZNADZNADZ or something like that over and over.

2) Isn't this what masters are for? Stop the vote if it's unjust and kick the vote caller if he persists.

Vordreller wrote:1) Who the hell does that? The only people I have ever seen up for kicking in the last 2 years are teamkillers and people who go NADZNADZNADZNADZNADZ or something like that over and over.

I know several Nexuiz players who called kick and kickban votes just for the fun of it.

Vordreller wrote:2) Isn't this what masters are for? Stop the vote if it's unjust and kick the vote caller if he persists.

There aren't always masters on the server. That's why kick/kickban votes are allowed in the first place.

But I agree that it's sad that people don't find the f1/f2 keys, even if someone called a very justified kick vote, or for the easy decision of "endmatch yes or no?".

RoKenn wrote:

Vordreller wrote:1) Who the hell does that? The only people I have ever seen up for kicking in the last 2 years are teamkillers and people who go NADZNADZNADZNADZNADZ or something like that over and over.

I know several Nexuiz players who called kick and kickban votes just for the fun of it.

Then come complain about it here or on the irc channels. Let them make their reputation, sothat we can strike back when needed.

The idea that we shouldn't change the system because it'll make it easier for trolls, implies that you intend to do nothing against them.

RoKenn wrote:

Vordreller wrote:2) Isn't this what masters are for? Stop the vote if it's unjust and kick the vote caller if he persists.

There aren't always masters on the server. That's why kick/kickban votes are allowed in the first place.

But I agree that it's sad that people don't find the f1/f2 keys, even if someone called a very justified kick vote, or for the easy decision of "endmatch yes or no?".

Well, there's always "vmaster".

And sadly, spamming f1/f2 might piss someone off enough to vote to have you kicked... and that person in turn will not get enough votes, will start spamming, another gets pissed of, and the circle is complete.

Vordreller wrote:Well, there's always "vmaster".

And sadly, spamming f1/f2 might piss someone off enough to vote to have you kicked... and that person in turn will not get enough votes, will start spamming, another gets pissed of, and the circle is complete.

vmaster.. i wonder who would press F1
What if a troll become a master? ew.
Anyway i never saw anyone spamming f1/f2 yet. maybe someone who says "please vote"
Actually if you get kicked and you think you did nothing you should talk to the admin..
do you get kicked everyday? No. (If yes its your fault.) So i don't see a problem here.
I think the voting system is ok. this should stay at least.

I also like divVerents solution

divVerent wrote:A compromise of that is running on my server: it is EITHER 50% of the players, OR 67% of the voters ("2/3 majority"). So a single vote against suffices to stop two yes voters, which in almost all cases stops abusive kick votes.

I think div0's percentage solution tackles the symptoms of non voting quite nicely. I still think it's worth to find out why a lot of people on public servers don't vote when one is called. It could range from not noticing to not caring and the measures that could be taken to increase the number of voters would be slightly different.

Maybe it's an idea to move the "A vote has been called" to the middle of the screen again, or at least somewhere more noticeable than the top right. This does not have to appear there immediately, but maybe 10 seconds or so after the vote has been called and the player has not voted yet (increase the nagging effect over time).

PinkRobot wrote:...This does not have to appear there immediately, but maybe 10 seconds or so after the vote has been called and the player has not voted yet (increase the nagging effect over time).

Yeah, this sounds like a great idea. Show a (visible!) notice telling the player he has forgotten to vote after 10 seconds

PinkRobot wrote:Maybe it's an idea to move the "A vote has been called" to the middle of the screen again, or at least somewhere more noticeable than the top right..

It was in the middle of the screen and people did not vote too

Vordreller wrote:

RoKenn wrote:I know several Nexuiz players who called kick and kickban votes just for the fun of it.

Then come complain about it here or on the irc channels. Let them make their reputation, so that we can strike back when needed.

Don't worry, they are usually taken care of. Funny enough, there was one troll calling kick votes just after I wrote my last post. But when I entered the server some minutes later he was already banned.

Mirio wrote:What if a troll become a master? ew.

That happened already, a while ago, and probably not only once. Some troll voted to become master, it was accepted and he started kicking random people. I think since that time vmaster is disabled on most servers. There's no real need for it anyway.

The problem is, voting for endmatch/chmap/restart can be made easier (majority of voting people), because that's mostly a matter of taste anyway.

Doing the same for kick/kickban/mute votes calls for abuse, as those votes could pass too easily. (after all, there usually is a "right" answer to these votes).

It was in the middle of the screen and people did not vote too

If those people don't care about voting then fine, they will never vote. I personally still think this idea is good to raise awareness among new players about the importance of voting. Top right in a busy looking HUD is easy to ignore.

You could also let the Beer Mod kick in after 20 seconds of not voting

Or have the alert get progressively more noticeable, for example by making the text bigger, moving it to the center, etc...

Mr. Bougo wrote:Or have the alert get progressively more noticeable, for example by making the text bigger, moving it to the center, etc...

maybe like your avatar with changing colors