Dokujisan wrote:The new weapons don't fit Nexuiz. This is the overwhelming consensus among the people that I have heard talking about the new weapons.

Among the traditional weapons (from before 2.5), the laser, electro, crylink and nex seem to fit in with the Nexuiz style. However, the shotgun, machine gun, grenade launcher and rocket launcher are old military style weapons.

Maybe they fit in another game, but they don't fit in Nexuiz. Any weapon that takes zero skill to use is bad (like the fireball).

The rifle is not only an old style weapon, but it is very difficult to use effectively. My understanding is that it is not a hitscan weapon, but a very fast projectile weapon.

Many feel that the nex gun is the most dominant weapon in the game. The only things that balance the dominance of the nex are 1) map design (enclosed maps with smaller spaces) 2) limited availability of ammo 3) limited accessibility of the nex. I've never been happy that the nex is such a dominant weapon, but I also feel that the nex is absolutely necessary to help balance against the super fast speed of players in nexuiz (especially in CTF). Once someone gets moving fast enough, the nex becomes the only weapon that is really effective in stopping them. Sometimes, even the nex can't stop a super fast player.

1) I think there should be at least another nex-like weapon (I guess that is what the rifle was intended to be)
2) I think a melee weapon could work well, if it is thought out properly and tested.
3) I have always liked the hand grenade as a weapon (from quake).

There are a lot of other ideas to consider, but these things really should involve a LOT of OPEN discussion and TESTING of gameplay. That didn't happen with the new weapons after 2.5.

Flying Steel wrote:I think if folks were less quick to get stubborn and emotional and be more logical and open to other ideas besides what they've grown accustomed to

Dokujisan wrote:don't remove the laser using mapinfo (re: campgrounds/francinator)

ai wrote:

Flying Steel wrote:I think if folks were less quick to get stubborn and emotional and be more logical and open to other ideas besides what they've grown accustomed to

You forget that that's impossible. People, in any situation, always rely on emotions, familiarity and security. Too much emotion is bad sure, but too much 'open minded' is as equally bad.

Dokujisan wrote:Among the traditional weapons (from before 2.5), the laser, electro, crylink and nex seem to fit in with the Nexuiz style. However, the shotgun, machine gun, grenade launcher and rocket launcher are old military style weapons. If the Alientrap wanted to adjust the weapons between Nexuiz versions, they could perhaps change the existing weapons so they fit more of the style of nexuiz. The weapons could have the same gameplay features, but (for example) the rocket would be a more futuristic projectile weapon, instead of a using a rocket designed in the 1950s.

Dokujisan wrote:Of the new weapons, the HLAC is the only one that seems to fit Nexuiz. However, it is too powerful right now. The HLAC really should just have the power reduced and then just replace the machinegun (since it is basically a laser-based machinegun anyway).

Dokujisan wrote:The rifle and the fireball are just bad ideas for Nexuiz. Maybe they fit in another game, but they don't fit in Nexuiz. Any weapon that takes zero skill to use is bad (like the fireball). The rifle is not only an old style weapon, but it is very difficult to use effectively. My understanding is that it is not a hitscan weapon, but a very fast projectile weapon.

Dokujisan wrote:...
Mappers are also putting the grappling hook on maps too, which is just horrible. I say let the server admins decide if the map is to be played with a grapple hook or not, as that (putting a grapple ON the map as a spawn item) dramatically changes the game. On non-hook servers, anyone who grabs the grapple hook will have a tremendous movement advantage that throws off the whole match. Movement tools, like the hook, should be for hook servers where everyone has a hook.

Dokujisan wrote:Also (this is somewhat related to the above comment about hooks) please, mappers, don't remove the laser using mapinfo (re: campgrounds/francinator). That actually changes the game mode quite a bit. When you are messing around with basic things like the weapons that are available when a player spawns, that is changing the game mode. There is nothing wrong with playing with the game mode, but let the server admins do that. If you want to create a new game mode that doesn't use a laser, talk to the alientrap devs about making a new one and then design your map for that.

Flying Steel wrote:
That's correct, it isn't hitscan, hitscan weapons are being phased out, I forget why. It seems that the rifle is going to be the new sniper weapon. Look at the changes for the Nex on the roadmap. I think it is getting damage-range falloff, which might start to make it less of a sniper weapon. Unless the falloff is reversed, like with the alien sniper gun from Halo (Particle Rifle? can't remember the name).

tundramagi wrote:Fuck off doujuk and go make your own game if you hate the weapons the developers made.
It's also nice for mappers to have a large variety of weapons to place, so go the fuck to hell with your weapon removal ideas.

Agama wrote:

Flying Steel wrote:
That's correct, it isn't hitscan, hitscan weapons are being phased out, I forget why. It seems that the rifle is going to be the new sniper weapon. Look at the changes for the Nex on the roadmap. I think it is getting damage-range falloff, which might start to make it less of a sniper weapon. Unless the falloff is reversed, like with the alien sniper gun from Halo (Particle Rifle? can't remember the name).

For the theme of nexuiz, I don't really imagine bullets in a futuristic alien game. And last time I checked what it said was on the front page "Simple, fast, intense.....". There shouldn't really be a "sniper weapon" its a hitscan weapon. Nexuiz isn't a game where you sit in a corner and try and get almost impossible headshots on people with the rifle while they are moving insanely fast around you. The Nex right now is completely fine as it is and fits nexuiz's style almost the best.

Agama wrote:For the theme of nexuiz, I don't really imagine bullets in a futuristic alien game.

And last time I checked what it said was on the front page "Simple, fast, intense.....". There shouldn't really be a "sniper weapon" its a hitscan weapon.

Nexuiz isn't a game where you sit in a corner and try and get almost impossible headshots on people with the rifle while they are moving insanely fast around you.

The Nex right now is completely fine as it is and fits nexuiz's style almost the best.

That's correct, it isn't hitscan, hitscan weapons are being phased out, I forget why. It seems that the rifle is going to be the new sniper weapon. Look at the changes for the Nex on the roadmap. I think it is getting damage-range falloff, which might start to make it less of a sniper weapon. Unless the falloff is reversed, like with the alien sniper gun from Halo (Particle Rifle? can't remember the name).

It's what the community wants in the end....if the community rejects a weapon added to the game, should that weapon stay? I think not...and vice versa for that matter.

Also (this is somewhat related to the above comment about hooks) please, mappers, don't remove the laser using mapinfo (re: campgrounds/francinator). That actually changes the game mode quite a bit. When you are messing around with basic things like the weapons that are available when a player spawns, that is changing the game mode. There is nothing wrong with playing with the game mode, but let the server admins do that. If you want to create a new game mode that doesn't use a laser, talk to the alientrap devs about making a new one and then design your map for that.

The new weapons don't fit Nexuiz. This is the overwhelming consensus among the people that I have heard talking about the new weapons. It wasn't really much of an issue when the new weapons first appeared after 2.5, because existing maps didn't have the new weapons and most servers didn't use them, so players didn't really notice them. But it's now an issue that gets brought up a lot more as mappers are starting to place the newer weapons on new maps. Server admins have to go through a number of steps to try to balance out the new maps to have them use the traditional weapons.

Among the traditional weapons (from before 2.5), the laser, electro, crylink and nex seem to fit in with the Nexuiz style. However, the shotgun, machine gun, grenade launcher and rocket launcher are old military style weapons. If the Alientrap wanted to adjust the weapons between Nexuiz versions, they could perhaps change the existing weapons so they fit more of the style of nexuiz. The weapons could have the same gameplay features, but (for example) the rocket would be a more futuristic projectile weapon, instead of a using a rocket designed in the 1950s.

Of the new weapons, the HLAC is the only one that seems to fit Nexuiz. However, it is too powerful right now. The HLAC really should just have the power reduced and then just replace the machinegun (since it is basically a laser-based machinegun anyway).

The rifle and the fireball are just bad ideas for Nexuiz. Maybe they fit in another game, but they don't fit in Nexuiz. Any weapon that takes zero skill to use is bad (like the fireball). The rifle is not only an old style weapon, but it is very difficult to use effectively. My understanding is that it is not a hitscan weapon, but a very fast projectile weapon.

Many feel that the nex gun is the most dominant weapon in the game. The only things that balance the dominance of the nex are 1) map design (enclosed maps with smaller spaces) 2) limited availability of ammo 3) limited accessibility of the nex. I've never been happy that the nex is such a dominant weapon, but I also feel that the nex is absolutely necessary to help balance against the super fast speed of players in nexuiz (especially in CTF). Once someone gets moving fast enough, the nex becomes the only weapon that is really effective in stopping them. Sometimes, even the nex can't stop a super fast player.

1) I think there should be at least another nex-like weapon (I guess that is what the rifle was intended to be)
2) I think a melee weapon could work well, if it is thought out properly and tested.
3) I have always liked the hand grenade as a weapon (from quake).

divVerent wrote:This was a decision by our game designer, LordHavoc (see credits).

If you feel it is the wrong direction to go, feel free to make a fork. Actually, it's quite likely one will happen after the changes in 2.6. And that would be the ideal way to find out which way is the better. If then base Nexuiz dies and everyone plays the fork, that would be a sure answer

Samual wrote:By the way, I might be one of those people who helps fork IF NEEDED.... Which I hope it isn't.

Samual wrote:This simply isn't true... Rifle IS hitscan, just has aspects about it that make it more realistic.

2) Ehh.. Maybe. A very short range weapon could work, however, I think it should be off hand and not an actual weapon that you can switch to. Or perhaps have it only available when you have no amm-- Well that last option is impossible, due to the laser... But.. I had the idea of making laser secondary into a melee attack. In my opinion, this is the best way to do it.

Some are good, some are VERY bad... One of the very bad, for example, is the crylink)

-> Weapon combos are the reason for the weakening of both the Nex & RL, but weapon combos could instead be removed.

-> Hagar secondary could finally be reverted to a usable form.

-> Shotgun could be permanently stabilized to a useful damage/shot value.

Flying Steel wrote:... A powerful melee secondary attack would increase its usefulness as a weapon ...

Flying Steel wrote:

Samual wrote:...

Are you sure? Because at least in 2.5.1, the Rifle has a "speed" value (20,000 inches per second) like all the other weapons except the Nex gun, which has no shot speed value because it is the only hitscan weapon I thought.

Some are good, some are VERY bad... One of the very bad, for example, is the crylink)

TVR wrote:With enough polish, Nexuiz 2.6 could be released as 3.0, much like 1.6->2.0.

Perhaps this is an opportunity to implement sweeping changes:

-> Weapon combos are the reason for the weakening of both the Nex & RL, but weapon combos could instead be removed.

-> Hagar secondary could finally be reverted to a usable form.

-> Shotgun could be permanently stabilized to a useful damage/shot value.

Flying Steel wrote:... A powerful melee secondary attack would increase its usefulness as a weapon ...

Any potential function of a melee attack is already fulfilled by the shotgun secondary, with a possible 180 damage at point blank.

TVR wrote:-> Hagar secondary could finally be reverted to a usable form.

-> Shotgun could be permanently stabilized to a useful damage/shot value.
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Any potential function of a melee attack is already fulfilled by the shotgun secondary, with a possible 180 damage at point blank.

tundramagi wrote:Why not make another new weapon that uses shotgun shells rather than making it use bullets?
That would be fun, to have another shotgunny thing, and that way it would be a more useful ammo type to put around.

Sepelio wrote:

tundramagi wrote:Why not make another new weapon that uses shotgun shells rather than making it use bullets?
That would be fun, to have another shotgunny thing, and that way it would be a more useful ammo type to put around.

I agree. The shotgun ammo type is largely unused, this was the case with the machinegun ammo too until the camping rifle came along.

tundramagi wrote:AI, the scumbag, deleted my reply.

My reply was that it would be better to make an additional weapon that uses shotgun shells than to merge two unrelated ammo types (scatter shot vs singular rifle type bullets.)

Douchebag AI deleted this and everything else I said. I hate AI.

AI: I hate you.

divVerent wrote:Odd that only very few community members DO reject them. The majority of the players actually likes these weapons.

Samual wrote:... Removing combos is the stupidest thing I have ever heard of.. It's a huge factor of gameplay ...

Samual wrote:... A new hagar secondary could be the old tag secondary.... Where it "popcorns" rockets into the air and explodes them immediately ...

Flying Steel wrote:... I find it kind of useful for shooting around corners ...

Flying Steel wrote:... It also needs to use ballistic ammo, not have its own ammo type to itself ...

Flying Steel wrote:... The explosives ammo type already does this to an extreme degree ...