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Nexuiz.com makeover? Nexuiz going to consoles?

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Re: Nexuiz.com makeover? Nexuiz going to consoles?
Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:08 pm

  • Dave wrote:It doesn't look like id offers commercial licenses to id tech 1 anymore, but this should be considered for console nexuiz since Darkplaces is not a clean-room implementation of Quake 1.


    Actually Quake and Quake 2 are id Tech 2, Doom is id Tech 1.

    The license has already been obtained for this title.
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Re: Nexuiz.com makeover? Nexuiz going to consoles?
Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:13 pm

  • Hey ppl, what gives!?
    This is bloody awesome!

    Matter of perspective.

    Nexuiz, the nexuiz we all love dearly, will get loads of attention!
    People will see that there is a PC version and thats its GPL.


    Wishful thinking at best. This takes attention from Nexuiz instead of giving it any.

    And so forth. Its the TALKING that matters, I mean the whole of south america and india and other FLOSS friendly bigass places and the rest of the world have a large bunch of artists and developers for nexuiz, they don't know it yet. They don't know how great of a feat it would be to have future employers look at their work, point and say, "See those guts in midair? Thats my code/graphics"


    I had some trouble decrypting this part. Don't really get what you're trying to say, doesn't make sense to me. Can you please elaborate?

    Although there are two things that I might wonder about:
    A: Why nexuiz and not nexuiz with something added to it. I should add that I like it the way it is now.


    Why call it nexuiz in the first place?
    B: I hope they got some moneys for it thats been directed toward developers and other artists.


    The least we can hope for.

    I think that is a bigger hurdle to get people interested (STILL sadly enough), than that there is a console (good god) game out there with the same name as real nexuiz.


    And the console game gets people less interested in the real nexuiz by getting attention.
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Re: Nexuiz.com makeover? Nexuiz going to consoles?
Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:21 pm

  • I'm still unsure as to how much this is a danger to the real project, but what LordHavoc said made me feel better. If there's no danger to the real Nexuiz I guess that is... good enough :?

    Otherwise, I can't understand this. Why in the world can't they find their own name for the new game? Or if they want to still call it Nexuiz, in case it is supposed to be some sort of newer version of the project, why can't they use a slightly different name (like Nexuiz Something)?

    C.Brutail wrote:
    cortez wrote:I'm sorry I have to say this, but the way this was handled is a direct insult to the whole Nexuiz community, developers and players alike. An insult to those, who let's face it, made his indie developer group and his game so great and awesome.

    Some respect wouldn't had hurt anybody.


    Perfectly agreed. They could have at least asked us and let us know about this, rather than coming and taking everything like that. To me this feels like hitting someone in the head, stealing their things and running away. If this was done on purpose, the people who did this should be totally and utterly ashamed of theirselves... but heh, who is any more when it comes to such companies?
    <Taoki> ... So maybe the new colored bars under the sbar weapons could indicate ammo level rather than accuracy stats.
    <Morphed> great now there is a place to show current phase of moon on hud
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Re: Nexuiz.com makeover? Nexuiz going to consoles?
Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:25 pm

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Re: Nexuiz.com makeover? Nexuiz going to consoles?
Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:29 pm
Re: Nexuiz.com makeover? Nexuiz going to consoles?
Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:31 pm
Re: Nexuiz.com makeover? Nexuiz going to consoles?
Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:34 pm
Re: Nexuiz.com makeover? Nexuiz going to consoles?
Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:50 pm

  • I feel like a loyalty to what people have understood alientrap to be has been lost.

    As a contributor to Nexuiz and many alientrap projects, I find it a bit disconcerting that our [mostly absent] leader make such a large decision that affects the community without even informing the team that a change is coming. I feel ashamed that I cannot answer questions about our leader's decisions.
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Re: Nexuiz.com makeover? Nexuiz going to consoles?
Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:55 pm

  • Image

    Heh lol, I think there's a need to edit my banner too :D
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    WE ARE NEXUIZ.
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Re: Nexuiz.com makeover? Nexuiz going to consoles?
Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:55 pm

  • Well spoken [-z-]
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    <Diablo> quake1 never had a weapon like that.
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Re: Nexuiz.com makeover? Nexuiz going to consoles?
Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:00 pm

  • Yes [-z-], very nicely said and true.
    <Taoki> ... So maybe the new colored bars under the sbar weapons could indicate ammo level rather than accuracy stats.
    <Morphed> great now there is a place to show current phase of moon on hud
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Re: Nexuiz.com makeover? Nexuiz going to consoles?
Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:30 pm

  • heh, I thought everybody as in "core" devs, contributers was in on this...
    since this is not the case. Yes, that loyalty towards alientrap is gone, true spoken.

    Although I have faith that there will come something better and maybe some long in the making needed change out of this, since we have a great community and the devs making nexuiz that used to be a reality.
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Re: Nexuiz.com makeover? Nexuiz going to consoles?
Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:17 pm

  • Surely those who relicensed their GPL licensed artwork, levels, etc to this development group under terms other than the GPL (less restrictive to said develoment group so that the derivative works can be kept proprietary) entered into a revenue sharing agreement?

    Surely?
    (And not profit sharing, as "hollywood" accounting can make millions in what we normaly recognise as profit become "losses".)
    And Lord Havoc must be getting something out of this so that he can continue adding new features to darkplaces.

    Right?
    I hope that those who have contributed greatly to the core nexuiz benifit.

    But... start thinking of a new name for GPL-Nexuiz. Also please now make records (if you haven't allready) of the bequests of the GPL content that NotAsGraphicallyPretty-Nexuiz has recieved so that the following does not occur in entirety:

    GPLNexuiz content -> Licensed from Authors under other non-exclusive licenses -> Used as basis for proprietary content -> Successful console game -> Company that made Nexuiz sold -> New owners notice that GPLNexuiz (or whatever it is then called) is using content that looks similar to their own -> They find out it's content they licensed -> they sue the "infringers"

    And you lose because you can't even get into an american court before dolling out about Ten Thousand Dollars.
    Initial motions and responses: $3000 to $5000
    Discovery: Another $5000 at least.
    Court.

    Well... it's going to happen eventually I bet, make sure you're prepared. Document everything. This is your savings on the line probably in maybe 5 years from now, maybe 3.
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Re: Nexuiz.com makeover? Nexuiz going to consoles?
Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:27 pm
Re: Nexuiz.com makeover? Nexuiz going to consoles?
Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:32 pm

  • This is quite strange. From the screenshots, I can't see a shred of GPL Nexuiz art in this game, so I'm assuming they are mostly using code, and concepts of some things. Furthermore, once something is GPL, it cannot be relicensed can it? Doesn't the GPL strictly forbid that? Seems to me they'd have to at least release the game engine as GPL.

    From the screenshots, the game looks quite good. The art is nice, and has a great theme. If this art was being returned in kind to GPL Nexuiz, this development would be a great thing. Otherwise, it seems like a potentially damaging fork. I feel sorry for those are closely involved with the original game who were kept in the dark. That was very unfair to you.
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Re: Nexuiz.com makeover? Nexuiz going to consoles?
Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:13 pm

  • the console noobs can keep nex-yoo-iz . we can keep the nex-ee-us . :)
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Re: Nexuiz.com makeover? Nexuiz going to consoles?
Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:38 pm
Re: Nexuiz.com makeover? Nexuiz going to consoles?
Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:47 pm

  • Irritant wrote:This is quite strange. From the screenshots, I can't see a shred of GPL Nexuiz art in this game, so I'm assuming they are mostly using code, and concepts of some things. Furthermore, once something is GPL, it cannot be relicensed can it? Doesn't the GPL strictly forbid that? Seems to me they'd have to at least release the game engine as GPL.


    content can be release under a dual license
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Re: Nexuiz.com makeover? Nexuiz going to consoles?
Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:18 pm

  • What I'm most eager now is to see what the dev(s) who were in front of this (Veremulen and other users if I heard correctly) will say, if they will mention anything. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against anyone (although I'm as badly upset on those who did this), but Imo it's the very least that can be done after something like this has happened. It likely wasn't hard to guess how we would feel about it... why was that ignored?
    <Taoki> ... So maybe the new colored bars under the sbar weapons could indicate ammo level rather than accuracy stats.
    <Morphed> great now there is a place to show current phase of moon on hud
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Re: Nexuiz.com makeover? Nexuiz going to consoles?
Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:54 am

  • Hello guys.

    It's really been years sinc eI visited the forums last. But I played the game very often. I am currently working for nexgam.de and I brought them to pay attention to Open Source games and - without using rates - we now review them. Nexuiz was on my list for a big review ... it was.
    I read the annoucement - so I waited. I expected a new major version and I wanted to wait to review it.

    Now I read this. Actually now I am not sure what to do anymore. I wanted to do a big review. I also wanted an interview with the developers.

    Now I am uncertain if I stil should write a review for - I think - one of the greatest archivements in concerns of Open Source games. Why? It's simple: Because if there will be a console version with the same name, this will mean confusion. It will be confusion and I think the Open Source review will be ignored after a while as people will logically expect the console-version will be the successor (which basically the website nexuiz.com seemed to say to me) - not a different game.

    For one part I think it's a very big success for the responsible guys here. Congratulations to them...
    Aside from that - I do honestly not know what else to think about this.
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Re: Nexuiz.com makeover? Nexuiz going to consoles?
Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:00 am

  • Alientrap is under the leadership of a guy who didn't really speak with the Nexuiz' devs since 4 years. Even if Nexuiz was originally supposed to be a commercial project, the product wasn't good enough to be sold. The works done wasn't lost thanks to Lordhavoc convincing Lee Vermeulen to release it under the free software GPL license, with the authorization of involved artists. But after that, Vermeulen left Nexuiz to work on others private projects (Zymotic, Capsized, etc.).

    Nevertheless, releases after releases, Nexuiz became an enjoyable and quality game, polished by the community, particularly thanks to :
    - divVerent, who rewrote most of the gamecode and menu.
    - LordHavoc with the work done on his darkplaces engine over the years.
    - various artists like Morphed, Tenshihan, Strahelemann, Sev, ai, etc.
    - valuable contributions bring by esteel, savageX, willis, morfar, tZork, Blub\0, FruitieX, -z-, etc.
    - all the admins hosting nexuiz servers for the community and the mappers

    The credits list is pretty long and show many people was involved, all done with passion, on their free time, without money. When you know that not a single dollar from the donation was invested into Nexuiz, it's surprising towards the community hard works and donators. But when we learn Lee Vermeulen sold to a private company the Nexuiz domains and branding, without telling anyone, even the current active Nexuiz developers, it's quite disrespectful to the works done over the years.

    We don't know yet the detail, but we can suppose Vermeulen got a good amount of money for the branding (thanks to the works done by the community). Now the question is what all of this will bring to our game, except confusion between the 2 games. In any case the pc version is safe, protected by the GPL license. The console version will be a propriety game, that why all the artworks is redone and code properly licensed, powered by what I heard a ps3 version of the darkplaces engine. But a priori no contents (textures, models, etc.) from the commercial game will be included in the pc game i.e. what our game is missing the most in quality. Indirectly, the new features bring to the engine for the ps3 version are also included in the gpl engine thanks to LordHavoc.

    In any case, Vermeulen should better reveal quickly his intention :
    - keeps all the money for him and screw the community
    - use the money this time to at last pay artists (textures, playermodels, animationetc.), coders (csqc players prediction), and whatever is needed to make Nexuiz a better game.
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Re: Nexuiz.com makeover? Nexuiz going to consoles?
Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:08 am

  • Give my cut to divVerent, no one would have ever offered Vermeulen money if it wasn't for his hard work

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Re: Nexuiz.com makeover? Nexuiz going to consoles?
Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:13 am

  • Start referring to our game as Nexiuz, because it isn't affected by Vermeulen's misspelled trademark registration of Nexuiz™.
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Re: Nexuiz.com makeover? Nexuiz going to consoles?
Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:22 am

  • Very nicely said Ronan! And no, I don't want any money from Nexuiz either (unless someone would want to donate in other circumstances, etc). It is exactly why I like this project so much, apart from being a great game; That it's done by people who work on it without doing it for money, or expecting something back rather than the game being improved.

    @ Vermeulen: Although I spoke with most of the devs as I did my contributions over the last year, we never got to meet. I am grateful you've started this game, which imo is one of the best free shooters out there at this day. In my opinion, doing this was a very big mistake, and I don't know exactly what all of your intentions are. But if you really wish to prove you care for this community, and wish to fix this mistake, I believe these would be two things to do (please correct me if I'm wrong):

    1 - Use at least part of the money which was made off this deal for Nexuiz (this one). Eg. For buying it some better art (of course as long as it can be GPL-d), or even making some publicity for it.

    2 - Help us press the people at Illfonic to change the name. If they really want, they can keep nexuiz.com I guess... but at least change anything in the name. Nexiuz, Nexuiz Something, Nexuiz 2010, anything.
    <Taoki> ... So maybe the new colored bars under the sbar weapons could indicate ammo level rather than accuracy stats.
    <Morphed> great now there is a place to show current phase of moon on hud
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Re: Nexuiz.com makeover? Nexuiz going to consoles?
Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:34 am

  • Ronan wrote:Alientrap is under the leadership of a guy who didn't really speak with the Nexuiz' devs since 4 years. Even if Nexuiz was originally supposed to be a commercial project, the product wasn't good enough to be sold. The works done wasn't lost thanks to Lordhavoc convincing Lee Vermeulen to release it under the free software GPL license, with the authorization of involved artists. But after that, Vermeulen left Nexuiz to work on others private projects (Zymotic, Capsized, etc.).


    K I have to response to this. I did respond in the other thread and apologized to TZork for not letting him know beforehand, and other developers, since I was under a NDA and wasn't sure what information I could give. I definitely take blame for that, this shouldn't have come as a surprise for many of the developers.

    But, to respond to this by a point by point basis, since it seems to be somewhat of a personal attack,
    The decision to release Nexuiz under GPL was entirely mine. And the entire reason I did it was to market the release of Nexuiz (releasing it as GPL I thought was a first for a project like this, and it did end up helping it get news on slashdot and other sites), and also hoping that forks of Nexuiz would happen from other developers.
    The reason I have been away from Nexuiz development is simply I was not good at maintaining the project, I messed up the 1.1 release and because of that gave it to other maintainers. Since then this has been entirely a community run project. To be honest many of the game elements have taken a direction I don't agree with. I don't like the current weapon balance, I don't like the current movement, but I've always believed this should be a community ran project and not under the design of one person. Nexuiz development since 1.0 has always been ran by whoever helps the most and has ideas the community likes.

    My focus has shifted away from Nexuiz onto other Alientrap projects. Zymotic has mostly failed, so now my focus is on getting Capsized done and expanding to other small casual games.
    The biggest reason I wanted this sale to happen was not only to expose Nexuiz, but to expose the company Alientrap as a game developer. To help with future projects, to give more creditability to publishers and other developers.

    When it comes to money, I obviously can't give the exact terms but this is not a giant sale, but if this game does succeed there are royalties to Alientrap. I didn't ask for a lot because my main concern was actually making this game happen.
    I've discussed this with LordHavoc (who being a developer with Illfonic the NDA did not apply) that major contributors would be given royalties that Alientrap received, and by this I mostly mean Div0, to encourage further development of the GPL Nexuiz.
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Re: Nexuiz.com makeover? Nexuiz going to consoles?
Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:38 am

  • TVR wrote:Start referring to our game as Nexiuz, because it isn't affected by Vermeulen's misspelled trademark registration of Nexuiz™.

    www.nexiuz.org
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Re: Nexuiz.com makeover? Nexuiz going to consoles?
Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:05 am

  • [-z-] wrote:http://www.nexiuz.org


    The devs may wish to secure that domain, otherwise someone porting Nexuiz to Nintendo WII may take it next :P

    Vermeulen wrote:The biggest reason I wanted this sale to happen was not only to expose Nexuiz, but to expose the company Alientrap as a game developer. To help with future projects, to give more creditability to publishers and other developers.

    When it comes to money, I obviously can't give the exact terms but this is not a giant sale, but if this game does succeed there are royalties to Alientrap. I didn't ask for a lot because my main concern was actually making this game happen.
    I've discussed this with LordHavoc (who being a developer with Illfonic the NDA did not apply) that major contributors would be given royalties that Alientrap received, and by this I mostly mean Div0, to encourage further development of the GPL Nexuiz.


    That makes sense, and is rather nice if it's the real reason. Still, an exact name and taking nexuiz.com away from this project was not a good way. Since they are making the new game, it was their job to find a slightly different name and website (through which they could have remained attached to this project and benefited from its popularity) rather than basically hijacking us.

    Taking the name and website was the only thing that upset me personally. Well I can't say I'm not slightly sad that a commercial Nexuiz is developing from this one, but if they would have been the ones to take nexuiz.org and named their game Nexuiz InsertAnythingHere I wouldn't have found this so horrible. I'm still hoping there's a chance we may push them to make some changes, and not force us to rename the whole game.
    <Taoki> ... So maybe the new colored bars under the sbar weapons could indicate ammo level rather than accuracy stats.
    <Morphed> great now there is a place to show current phase of moon on hud
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Re: Nexuiz.com makeover? Nexuiz going to consoles?
Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:29 am

  • Vermeulen wrote:... The biggest reason I wanted this sale to happen was not only to expose Nexuiz, but to expose the company Alientrap as a game developer. To help with future projects, to give more creditability to publishers and other developers. ...


    Unless you are willing to forfeit Alientrap's non-profit status, and the .org TLD, and our good will to you, it's a really bad idea to sell our search engine hits, Wikipedia link, and word-of-mouth to Illfonic.
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Re: Nexuiz.com makeover? Nexuiz going to consoles?
Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:21 am

  • LordHavoc wrote:Actually Quake and Quake 2 are id Tech 2, Doom is id Tech 1.

    The license has already been obtained for this title.

    Confusing! :) Well good luck on the release!

    What I'm interested in this console port is how the Darkplaces engine was adapted to the parallel architectures used in the Xbox 360 and particularly the PS3, and whether Darkplaces would be able to use some of those approaches through OpenMP or pthreads, though it seems that only the servers in Nexuiz are very CPU-bound.
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Re: Nexuiz.com makeover? Nexuiz going to consoles?
Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:50 am

  • Hijacking the Nexuiz name is an insult to all Nexuiz players. Why not pick a new name for this new game? Are they expecting to profit off some kind of brand recognition?
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