I hope you guys can include Nexuiz on your platform, and if you have any
problems running it be sure to talk to me.

Quote Above From Vermeulen

Nexiuz, the highly acclaimed online deathmatch FPS, will be availiable on the Codename: Crystal Tiger game console (name subject to change) at the scheduled release of the console, 2007-2008. Visit http://freewebs.com/suicidalgamer for information on Nexiuz, Codename: Crystal Tiger, and much more from Suicidal Interactive Entertainment

To be perfectly honest your project sounds unplanned, with an unreal view of the market, and impossible ambitions.
If you actually do succed in developing a cheap low end computer prebuilt and sold with your version of unix, I don't see a reason why you couldn't put Nexuiz on it. You would have to lower the defaults quite a lot, but it might work. Nexuiz is GPL afterall, so even if I wanted to stop you I couldn't.

The basic idea of your platform isn't a bad idea, but your current plan for it just won't work IMO. I am guessing you've heard a lot of critiscism before, all I am saying is I think you need to get a lot more realistic. I am not going to criticize you for your age, or inexperience, but I think taking some of the advice on the gamedev forum would be a good idea.

I do like how you called Nexuiz 'highly acclaimed' though

'm just a bit to wasted to try and understand what you are walking about, but ahtever vermemulene said is good witrh me.

It's always good to have Nexuiz (not "Nexiuz", like on your site) on as many platforms as possible - so go ahead

I assume such a homemade console could work and sell a few units (if you're homebrew friendly -I guess you are - and doing good PR). After all there are units like the GP2X with a similiar "hacker friendly" approach. Just make sure you can survive a possible commercial failiure. And if you sell a few units keep in mind you have to give support, too (if a console fails you'll have to replace it - this may cost many bucks, depending on how reliable your hardware is).

However, everything has to work "out of the box" to give a true "console" experience. Plus having a real web site would help (using freewebs doesn't transport the message that people should give you their money very well; having a "cool" stylish design would help, too). Make sure you don't ask questions like "How do you like my site" if you want to establish a business connection with your clients. Make clear what they are registering for (Usually *I* don't register if I get nothing in return). Talk less about what parts you use - talk about what games will run atop of it and how it'll look fantastic and how it'll improve our livestyle.

If you're serious with this make sure to assemble a team: Someone for a really cool webpage, someone who has an idea how business works, someone with the technical background etc. etc.

Oh, and make sure you keep patents etc. in mind. Your hardware would allow you to play DVDs - but the MPEG codecs are patented and you'll be in really serious trouble (with lawsuit and all) if you'd sell your consoles with MPEG codecs installed without paying for them (That's why there are really free codecs like Ogg Vorbis (Nexuiz uses it) for audio and Ogg Theora for video). Using open source MPEG codecs e.g. won't protect you from patent infringement (copyright - that's what Open Source licenses usually handle - has nothing to do with patents).

To put it into a nutshell: I wish you the best of luck. Make sure you don't end up in serious trouble and plan your business well.

I really can not recommend your choice of video card, the 6200TC, for a game console. It's intended for people who don't play games. There is nothing 'Turbo' about Turbo cache and it has been seen to give some people trouble with some drivers.

More importantly, there is a problem with your strategy. You have already announced hardware specifications but can you really say that those components will remain available? The 6200TC will be killed off pretty soon in which case you would be forced to upgrade to the 7300 which is a lot better. Within the next 2 years much of the other hardware will end production too in which case you will not have a single platform. This is where the computer market and the console market are different and I think those differences will give you trouble. If you really want to make a console you've got to have long term contracts for component supply which means that pupose built components would be best. For instance getting a motherboard maker to make you a motherboard with the garphics card hardwired to it and having a purpose built case to put it in.

Where you have an advantage over commercial consoles is that the tools to develop games for a console are stupidly expensive. The consoles are sold at a loss, the games are sold at a huge profit, so are the developer kits. I think you would be better off not doing the hardware side and instead providing a Linux platform for easy game development and playing. Give a list of recommended hardware for people to run it on (nVIDIA graphics card would be a sensible requirement) and people could stick together their own systems from locally bought components at current prices rather than what you may have paid for a job lot 3 months earlier.

Look at the Torque game engien from garage games. It runs on Linux.

We have not updated those specs yet, but we plan to have the following as a STANDARD for the devkit, which the system will meet or exceed in power.

ATi Radeon X800GTO 256MB or better
AMD Athlon 64 3000+
512MB-1GB of DDR2 SDRAM

I am very sure that our system will be capable of running Nexiuz at the highest settings.

suicidalgamer wrote:We have not updated those specs yet, but we plan to have the following as a STANDARD for the devkit, which the system will meet or exceed in power.

ATi Radeon X800GTO 256MB or better
AMD Athlon 64 3000+
512MB-1GB of DDR2 SDRAM

I am very sure that our system will be capable of running Nexiuz at the highest settings.

Those hardware specs look much more powerful, but be aware that the ATI Linux drivers are plain horrible. They're really bad. They're a complete disaster. They tend to crash. They are slow - you're lucky if you can get ATI cards running at half of the speed they usually give in Windows.

There are open source drivers for the X800 (see http://dri.freedesktop.org) but I wouldn't
expect them to be 100% perfect either (they have to do reverse engineering to get the hardware spec).

I doubt you can get Nexuiz running on an ATI card under Linux with all effects enabled.

edit: Given that information I'd say a even a GeForce 7300GT or 7600GS may be faster - and cheaper (those have full-speed Linux drivers).


edit2: How are you still going to archieve the $300 goal?

We will try to stay around $300. However, we (my business partner and I) are currently deciding on wether to have 2 configs ($300 and $400) or 1 config (3-4 hundred dollars). I will also discuss with him wether or not to upgrade to a nVidia 7300 or 7600.

tChr wrote:'m just a bit to wasted to try and understand what you are walking about, but ahtever vermemulene said is good witrh me.

rofl...classic tchr....classic.

suicidalgamer wrote:We will try to stay around $300. However, we (my business partner and I) are currently deciding on wether to have 2 configs ($300 and $400) or 1 config (3-4 hundred dollars). I will also discuss with him wether or not to upgrade to a nVidia 7300 or 7600.

Personally I'd opt for one config (without the flash stuff but with a small harddrive you can install games onto - playing Nexuiz from an optical drive could increase loading times into unpleasant regions). Keep in mind that your system is open enough for people to extend their hardware themselves - and I'd guess most people will put in a harddrive anyway. So it can't be wrong to do this from the start at a fair price.

What ouput devices are you going to use, btw? TV sets? (That'd be fairly low resolution, thus allowing you to use lower midrange gfx cards)

nV 7300 is a good choice, I have it, runs nexuiz perfectly.

the criticism first:
what is your fixation with the " iu " ??? its NEXUIZ ! Nex U i z !!! and you have more typos on your site. doesnt make a good first impression.
i.e.: "We're CRAZY 'bout makin' you the perfect game!" either apostrophes or type the whole word! "bout" and "makin" are ok but "we're" and "were" have completely different meaning and pronounciation. and the term "suicidal" is a bit... negative. deterrent for any investors. also you should put the console info from the forum to the main site.

other than that:
good luck! you have some good ideas. i like the name Crystal Tiger. i would recomend you putting some effort into the community.

Okay, listen closely.

I am very sorry for the typos on our site. I will fix this very soon.

AMD has asked that as soon as we have 50-100 developers, they will help with the CPU and the GPU (ATi) with optimization software included. It is possible that they will create whole new Linux drivers, that or my colleague will write them himself.

We now have a list of games we are releasing on the system:

End of Worlds MMORPG
Ping (A PONG style game)
Alpha Squad
Unnamed FPS
Unnamed RPG (Name is currently being decided)
Nexuiz

We are also negotiating to recieve the following:

Zymotic
Think Tanks
Minions of Mirth Premium

Please, when you post, tell me if ZYMOTIC should be on our console. Also, please give us some suggestions that would make you a buyer of the system.

Afaik Zymotic won'T be fully GPL-ed, but a moderate commercial game.

suicidalgamer wrote:Also, please give us some suggestions that would make you a buyer of the system.

I'm sorry, but I wouldn't buy anything that says "homebrew" as it does on your site. I'm that kind of person that either am doing it myself or buying from "professionals/companies" . The word 'homebrew' is a turn off, kind of a negative thing, though it doesn't necessarily mean that, you might be very good with what you're doing. But my suggestion is that you change it to something else. Also, there's no information about you or Suicidal Interactive Entertainment that I can find. There's that domain name too (that someone mentioned before me) that throws you off, and how the text is layed out on the site also points to that you are not too experienced with the "company structure".

I suppose that these consoles will cost a lot of money (and then the games) and before risking any money I would need a lot more info etc.

When we say homebrew, we mean that you can make your own games for it with no hacks. Also, I'm sorry for the errors, the website was quite rushed and will be redone soon.

suicidalgamer wrote:When we say homebrew, we mean that you can make your own games for it with no hacks. Also, I'm sorry for the errors, the website was quite rushed and will be redone soon.

Well I, for one, wish you good luck in your venture.

I've been in business for about 35 years and from the description you've given I'd say the most difficult thing in your new business isn't going to be the development, the tesing, the contracts or anything else... it'll be selling because, frankly, it's ALWAYS the selling. It almost doesn't matter how good a product is... without effective selling it won't matter a damn.

I mean... Windows instead of xenix/unix/linux??? come ON!!!

Anyway, once again, good luck mate

tChr wrote:'m just a bit to wasted to try and understand what you are walking about, but ahtever vermemulene said is good witrh me.

I'm a'hearing you on FM dude...

suicidalgamer wrote:Please, when you post, tell me if ZYMOTIC should be on our console. Also, please give us some suggestions that would make you a buyer of the system.

Not having your website and forums all on free hosts, and some actual content beyond just written concepts - those combined with your MMORPG being admitted to being built using an MMORPG generator, there's a lot that just lacks professionalism.

I'm not trying to flame, honestly. An open console would be really cool to see; imagining something like the GP2x but in console-style is really cool. I just think that if you really want to see success, there's some polishing that needs to be done to a lot of your stuff. Good luck!

Shoe wrote:

suicidalgamer wrote: An open console would be really cool to see; imagining something like the GP2x but in console-style is really cool. I just think that if you really want to see success, there's some polishing that needs to be done to a lot of your stuff.

An 'open' console, (particularly one that assumed connection to the internet), would have significant advantages, as the operating system and other software would be able to be patched and improved 'on the fly'.

I still wish the chap good luck but,, as others have said, there appears very little chance of the project succeeding as it's presently envisaged, or, more accurately, as I UNDERSTAND it's envisaged

What might be interesting, though, would be a similar project that got game developers to place versions of their games on a console, optimised for the hardware, and charged users almost nothing for the hardware, (just the bald costs), but a small monthly charge for the individual game. The console developer would get a percentage of the monthly charge plus costs for distributed service workshops to keep the hardware up to date.

With, say, $80-100m, (mainly for selling costs with a small amount of development as well), it might be possible to achieve something along those lines as long as you stuck to a particular market, the US being the obvious one.

The service workshops would have to be small PC wokshops, 'one man bands', essentially, although it would be possible to achieve some income from franchising this aspect of the enterprise if the operation takes off.

My daughter pays a small amont per month to play a game called 'City of Heroes' and that is, frankly, one of the few remaining ways it's possible to make money in the PC industry now. There is no profit in selling plain PC hardware anymore in vityually any form.

old_codger wrote:

suicidalgamer wrote:When we say homebrew, we mean that you can make your own games for it with no hacks. Also, I'm sorry for the errors, the website was quite rushed and will be redone soon.

Well I, for one, wish you good luck in your venture.

I've been in business for about 35 years and from the description you've given I'd say the most difficult thing in your new business isn't going to be the development, the tesing, the contracts or anything else... it'll be selling because, frankly, it's ALWAYS the selling. It almost doesn't matter how good a product is... without effective selling it won't matter a damn.

I mean... Windows instead of xenix/unix/linux??? come ON!!!

Anyway, once again, good luck mate

Where did you get the idea that we're using Windows?

suicidalgamer wrote:Where did you get the idea that we're using Windows?

Er... I didn't... that wasn't my point.

I was simply pointing out that if the quality of the product was the most important thing then Unix/Linux would be more popular than Windows. Windows has succeeded not by being the best product but by being sold more effectively.

Sorry, I didn't notice that the two paragraphs were connected. And that is a very good point. That's why we're going for the very best indie games, and have hired a marketing specialist who is currently building a plan for us. You'll notice when is his plan begins to unfold, trust me . We're trying to get quality and effective marketing.

You know what...
After reading the name of your "company", if I can call it that already, I remembered the suicide mod I made for SoF2. Yesterday I had about half an hour free and redid it for Nexuiz. I must say, it's quite fun to walk around blowing people up by suiciding and firing yourself instead of a rocket.
Might be an idea to include such game mode for this console if it comes through, some kind of game mode that is typically for the "producer", just like People Can Fly Studios did with Painkiller

EDIT: cheers, this is my second post and I signed up about 6 months ago, damn I'm good...

That would be great! This is the point (or one of the points) of the console! If you have a new idea for a mode in a game, you can make it! And since it's been okayed to have Nexuiz on the console, we might put the mod you made with it (if it's liked by several people of course).

Hey guys, we just did a minor revision to the site. Check it out. There aren't as many grammar problems now . http://www.freewebs.com/suicidalgamer/index.htm

We have completed a full revision of our website. Check it out!

Err... seems your hardware specs are now totally different...

http://www.freewebs.com/crystaltiger/cr ... mation.htm

* A custom CPU with 4 dual-threaded cores running at about 2 Ghz, and a PowerPC co-processor running at 450MHz
* A custom GPU with 64MB RAM with FSAA 16x, OpenGL ES 2,and automatic texture compression for quick loading
* A 120 GB hardrive running at 7200 RPM with an 8 MB cache
* 512 MB of shared RAM running at 500 MHz
* A wireless/wired controller with rumble and motion sensing technologies, with possible microphone/speaker and-on in the future

Sure we're still talking about the same thing? Nexuiz as-is won't run on such a system. And where do you get the hardware? The "custom CPU" somehow sounds like a cut-down version of the Sun Niagara CPU... which may actually suck at gaming, giving that there's only *one* floating-point unit for the whole thing, not one floating-point unit per core...

good ol' savagex - always looking at the bright side of things!

avirox wrote:good ol' savagex - always looking at the bright side of things!

but in a very knowledgeable way