I've been in a brief correspondence with Rainer Rohde who runs the Herforst ctf server about maps and I mentioned to him that I, and a few others, didn't particularly like the capturecity map, although it's better without the grappler IMO. I asked if it would be possible to maybe have another map instead and he asked which one people would prefer.

As I mentioned to him, it's not really for me to say, (although I have my own ideas), so I'm doing this poll to give everyone a 'shout'. (It's an English expression! )

I've listed the two, (assuming my memory's not playing tricks with the names, anyway), I would like to see but you can select other as long as you say which one, obviously. The other option might be to add some more maps to capturecity so select that if that's what you want.

IMO the main point against capturecity is the bad performance of the map which is hard to improve as i understand things. There is a little patch available that does help a bit but its still kinda heavy job for the engine..
I think the map itself is very fine as it will favor those with good team work. But it should have the grapple disabled, after all the map was build with this fact in mind.

Unless things changed on herforst the last week i think the needed changes are: Lower maxplayers to 10 or 12.. That number is much better for all of the available ctf maps and its also easier on the engine and fps to have only half the players. As there are two herforst servers now it should be able to do this without harming anyone.
Then more maps should be added. I really like all of the available ctf maps so i would like to see all of them.. vitamea (thank god one can disable the music with the console ), controlfactor, this q3 spacemap remake, tznex03.

I don't know very man maps by their names, or else I would vote.

As far as the capture city map (I do know that map by name...because it's the only one I know of that is a city), I could take it or leave it. I've heard various people say that they like that map, but I think it is lacking in some features.

Right now, Herforst only has two maps on it...the two towers map (whatever that is called, facing worlds or something?) and that small one-room map. I'm growing tired of the one-room map. I'd prefer to play the two-towers map ... old and new versions...and one or two other maps. So four maps in rotation.

Yes 2 maps is really not much.
There are at least 5 to 6 really fun and good maps you could put in.
Althought i wouldn't mind all the ctfs its a ctf server ain't it

And pretty please turn grapple OFF on facing worlds, as the map was NOT ment to be played with grapple on.

I think Herforst is intended to be a grapple-based CTF server.

There is another server that is a non-grapple CTF server. I played on it the other day with a few guys from this forum. "Green's CTF-only server"

Dokujisan wrote:I think Herforst is intended to be a grapple-based CTF server.

Hmm... I didn't know that. If that's the case that makes a difference because some maps play better with the grappler. Not a big fan of it myself but I know some people are. Still, that's the point of the poll, isn't it - to give everyone their say.

On that subject can people remind those on the server, those that play regularly, to give this poll a look. I suppose I'm making a pretty big assumption that Reiner's going to act in response to people's wishes. It's his server and I suppose he's entitled to do what he wants with it but I don't think there's any harm in people putting their views.

Thinking about it there's nothing wrong with somebody ELSE deploying a server if they see fit. I'd do it but Mrs. Codger's made me move my router, (wireless), up the other end of the house and my pings disappeared off the scale at the moment. In any case I've only got a 2Mb download and 256Kb upload ADSL line so it's just not man enough for the job. I tried it when it was plugged in direct with a network cable, (AH! happy days ), and people complained about the performance then so...

I might be able to put up another server, but as far as CTF goes I'm not sure. If Reiner does as the people wished then with that server and Green's that would be enough of those for me at least. But what I really like to see more is other game style servers'. For example rune (which I don't particulary enjoy but what the heck), tdm and my personal favorite arena. But I guess people just don't want to wait for their turn to play, and if you're a newbie you won't have a chance to live long.

I'll see what I decide later on when I get my new computer parts. I will then have 4 servers and my own computer (5 pc's in total) here. I have 10/10mbit with only one webserver running 24/7. Would this suffice for a game server?

And as far as Herfost goes, I think leave the maps and add the city map plus some more. I think the more maps the better otherwise you grow tired if you play the same maps all the time. Which is the reason I don't wanna play on Herforst that much any more.

Esteel has said before that there are two Herforst servers. Is that true? If so, I can't see it on the server list.

It would really be nice if the number of players were reduced to 12 instead of 20. with 20 players, I spend most of my time looking for a weapon.

I think facing worlds works with a grappling hook, even if it wasn't designed as such.

Dokujisan wrote:Esteel has said before that there are two Herforst servers. Is that true? If so, I can't see it on the server list.

There were 2, now there is 1.

I think esteel writes the name starting with lowercase, like e. e. cummings

The grapple is a unique feature of that server, and the "flavour" would be really spoiled by turning it off. It is a "monkey server" and I think that makes it different and fun.

The "new" Face map doesn't work as well with grapple as the old one, so it would be a good idea to go back to the old Face map, especially as many players complain of poor frame rates in the middle area. An anti-spawn camping setting would be very useful too!

Capturecity is good fun, despite awful frame rates, and I agree that cutting player numbers a bit would help with all maps - perhaps 14 or 16 maximum?

For a grapple-based server any maps with some open areas and not too many low ceilings would be fine, perhaps with 5 or 6 maps in the rotation.

OK. So the feeling seems to be that capture-city stays but with some additions if possible. Not many people - well, none, in other words - seemed to like vitamea which personally I like but there we are:(. Controlfactor seems quite popular though. I'm also surprised nobody mentioned runingman as well but 'the man' said he's not fond of it so maybe it's a good thing.

I've mentioned this poll to Reiner so he'll probably have a look himself anyway but I'll email him and mention it again telling him the results. We'll see what happens!

Cheers
OC

Well right now herforst is running facingworlds, eggandbacon, dismal.. Sorry but how can someone sane choose dismal for a 10v10 server? This map is only suited for 4v4 people at most.
runningman, facingworlds, greatwall, tznex03, controlfactor, cbctf1 are better suited. Though i think maxplayers 20 is just tooooooo much for an organized CTF match. With so many players the individual players start to think 'oh the others will do the job, i can just watch'. Its also harder to balance out the games then. Just yesterday i played 2 or 3 matches on herforst which were won 400 - 90 points. This is neither fun for those winning nor for those loosing. I once wrote i think Herforst is a beginners server and still think thats true but do we want to scare beginners with overcrowded maps and playernumbers that stiffle teamplay? When there is so little need for teamplay how should people learn that you win by developing teamplay?

OK. Rainer's asked for some guidance with altering the server to add the required maps and I'm sure we can all rally around to provide the necessary Well more accurately, I'm sure you lot can because I'm old, (not to mention a bit dense), so hopefully some bright young thing can come to the codgers aid here

In any event somebody's already got this running so maybe they can simply post the server.cfg file and we can make the alterations.

Well, assuming the 'main man's' agreeable

I believe I'm right in thinking there is a default url server where the extra maps are stored. Is that correct? If it is then presumably it's just a matter of adding in the name 'extra_maps/ctf_controlfactor' or whatever, into the server.cfg file. Is that right?

All help greatly appreciated!

Not sure if i understand you correctly. The server has to have to maps (pk3 files) inside the data directory. Then if one wants players to be able to download maps those pk3 files have be accessible for direct download either via http or ftp. Now one needs to make the server tell the players from were to download those files. There is a default url in the settings but its not yet of any use. We want to build a mirror network at some point in the future which can be used to up and download maps.. As long as this does not work yet (or even if it did work and you want to use maps not in this mirror network) you have to create a file called curl_urls.txt inside the data directory. For each map add a line with the name of the pk3 file and the url were to download it (without the filename however as the filename is appended (just as its appended to the default download url). Here is an example However PLEASE use other servers or else those in the example get too much traffic!

And finally you have to add the map to the variable g_maplist so that its used on the server.. However i think Rainer already knows that stuff and also how to lower the playernumbers

Hmm i'll add those bits about the mapdownload to the server guide too.. *edit* DONE.. http://www.forums.alientrap.local/viewtopic.php?t=18

Add blueamuse (version 69 now) I vote.

esteel wrote:Not sure if i understand you correctly. The server has to have to maps (pk3 files) inside the data directory. Then if one wants players to be able to download maps those pk3 files have be accessible for direct download either via http or ftp. Now one needs to make the server tell the players from were to download those files.

There is a default url in the settings but its not yet of any use. We want to build a mirror network at some point in the future which can be used to up and download maps.. As long as this does not work yet (or even if it did work and you want to use maps not in this mirror network) you have to create a file called curl_urls.txt inside the data directory. For each map add a line with the name of the pk3 file and the url were to download it (without the filename however as the filename is appended (just as its appended to the default download url). Here is an example

OK! So the server has to have the maps and it needs to tell the client where they can be downloaded from by means of the curl_urls.txt file. That makes sense.

esteel wrote:However PLEASE use other servers or else those in the example get too much traffic!

I have some available http bandwidth I can offer if it's a problem. I'll mention it to him.

If I trawled through the site I'd probably be able to find them but maybe you can tell me where I can download them from. I seem to remember seeing a listing with pictures from the maps and where they were stored but I can't seem to find it now.

Bloody Alzheimers playing up again!

I've successfully downloaded the greatwall ctf map from the example server and can upload that to my server if needed but is that the current version???

esteel wrote:And finally you have to add the map to the variable g_maplist so that its used on the server.. However i think Rainer already knows that stuff and also how to lower the playernumbers

Er... dunno!

Maybe I've got hold of the wrong end of the stick and he's simply asking me which maps we want. The player numbers thing is in the server.cfg file and is just a numeral. Even I know that! Maybe he set the server up a while ago and has forgotten.

I don't mind asking the questions and making life easy for the guy... it's no biggie!!!

esteel wrote:Hmm i'll add those bits about the mapdownload to the server guide too.. *edit* DONE.. http://www.forums.alientrap.local/viewtopic.php?t=18

Good man!!!

If necessary I can set my server up again for testing purposes, (it's FAR too slow for actual play_, and set up the curls file as well but we'll see how we get on first.

old_codger wrote:If I trawled through the site I'd probably be able to find them but maybe you can tell me where I can download them from. I seem to remember seeing a listing with pictures from the maps and where they were stored but I can't seem to find it now.

I've successfully downloaded the greatwall ctf map from the example server and can upload that to my server if needed but is that the current version???

There is no 'definite' map list at all.
But there is a map list in the Nexuiz wiki: http://alientrap.org/wiki/pmwiki.php?n=Main.CustomMaps but its slowly getting outdated as people do not update or add new maps. On the other hand most of the maps there were posted in the forum the last days were not yet totaly finished.
Then of course divVerents server http://141.2.16.3:7780/nex/maps/inofficial/ has lots of maps and normaly he is rather fast in updating it.
Other then that you will have to search the forum and look at what versions are there.

Greatwall currently is available as rev3 and also as an remake from CBrutail but that one is called greatwall-reloaded.
Filenames: ctf_greatwall_rev3.pk3 map-ctf_greatwall_reloaded.pk3

I haven't put greatwall_rev3 AND reloaded on my server yet because I first want to check if I can have both...

that is, that they have no conflicts

divVerent wrote:I haven't put greatwall_rev3 AND reloaded on my server yet because I first want to check if I can have both...

that is, that they have no conflicts

I've just check your server and the controlfactor map there is shown as http://141.2.16.3:7780/nex/maps/inofficial/controldactor_v2r2.pk3
i.e. the name isn't spelled correctly or, at least, not the same as on the map listing on your server during the game which has an 'f' instead of a 'd'???

Yes, however, tZorks's download had the same misspelling, so I kept it. That way, people shouldn't need to download the map twice because of the different pk3 name... or am I in the minority already and everyone else did rename it?

divVerent wrote:Yes, however, tZorks's download had the same misspelling, so I kept it. That way, people shouldn't need to download the map twice because of the different pk3 name... or am I in the minority already and everyone else did rename it?

At least tZork renamed his download. So anyone who downloaded it from him with the correct name will redownload it anyway...

Well is this really a big problem? tZork did change the name rather fast so if this were a problem i guess the 'right' name is more dominant..
But downloading 4mb twice is not a problem in my eyes

esteel wrote:Well is this really a big problem? tZork did change the name rather fast so if this were a problem i guess the 'right' name is more dominant..
But downloading 4mb twice is not a problem in my eyes

It's not a problem of downloading. It's simply a question of whether the filename on the server during the game is displayed simply by extracting the filename from the absolute file location on the server address you gave or not. By looking at the name displayed during the game it appears not to be the case.

The point is if I'm going to tell Rainer which map we want I've got to give him the right filename, haven't I, and controldactor_v2r2.pk3 is not the same as controlfactor_v2r2.pk3. In any event I'm presently experimenting and will establish the situation myself and let Rainer know.

EDIT: AH! Just realised the pk3 files are the compressed ones and the files inside are totally different. Told you I was dense!!!

Anyway, still fiddling and will let rainer know.

old_codger wrote:It's not a problem of downloading. It's simply a question of whether the filename on the server during the game is displayed simply by extracting the filename from the absolute file location on the server address you gave or not. By looking at the name displayed during the game it appears not to be the case.

The filename displayed in the server browser is the name of the *.bsp file inside the PK3. The filename the server appends to the download url that is send to the clients, is the name of the PK3 file in which the server found that *.bsp file. So the PK3 names on the server and the http mirror have to be the same, but the PK3 might have a completely different name than the map itself.

KadaverJack wrote:

old_codger wrote:It's not a problem of downloading. It's simply a question of whether the filename on the server during the game is displayed simply by extracting the filename from the absolute file location on the server address you gave or not. By looking at the name displayed during the game it appears not to be the case.

The filename displayed in the server browser is the name of the *.bsp file inside the PK3. The filename the server appends to the download url that is send to the clients, is the name of the PK3 file in which the server found that *.bsp file. So the PK3 names on the server and the http mirror have to be the same, but the PK3 might have a completely different name than the map itself.

Yes, I've sorted it out now. Sorry for confusing everyone... including myself! I did sort this out at some point when I was trying to run my own server, (which proved to be too slow), but must have forgotten it.

Hey! You lot will be old too at some point, y'know!

The 'main man' has made some mods as suggested. Can some of you try it and see. There might be a problem with my client because I seemed to be able to move through the ground on the facing_worlds map but, like I say, that could just be my client.

You CAN move through walls and floor when spectating.. and normally one does start as spectator. Thats a feature

esteel wrote:You CAN move through walls and floor when spectating.. and normally one does start as spectator. Thats a feature

Hmm... yes. I noticed that as well. It's not, shall we say, an unqualified success, is it! I've mentioned it to Rainer but he had some Linux stuff to do at the moment. He'll be on it ASAP.

On the good news front there seem to be a number of new ctf servers of varying flavours.

Something I've never quite figured out is why the deGreen one isn't better used. That's pretty good IMO. As we discussed before, it's probably what people get used to I suppose.

Well right now something is broken with herforst.. i wrote Reiner a mail to try to restart the server and if that does not help we'll have to find out whats wrong.