tundramagi wrote:Everyone that committed to SVN darkplaces assigned their copyright to, I think, LH, as a condition for their commit access. So, no, no legal problem there.

Nope, it has never been a condition. And I certainly haven't signed anything to give back my copyright on the part of DP I contributed to.
I don't mind doing it if it allows LordHavoc to get the nice paid job he deserves, but I do prefer that someone asks me first before using the code I have written for a free game engine in a commercial product :P

The "but we are using Nexuiz 1.0" story is just a convenient way to evade possible legal issues.

Does not change anything about moral aspects. But why would a COMPANY care anyway.

Kedhrin wrote:Hello all,

My name is Kedhrin Gonzalez, Lead Designer and Co-Founder of IllFonic, LLC. I know a lot of you in this community have a lot of questions as to what is going on with the recent announcement.

Before we get started, I'd like to forward you guys the official press release -> http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/107/1073381p1.html

Here is some press recently put up from Shogun Gamer -> http://www.shogungamer.com/news/preview ... ect-nexuiz

You can view higher resolution screen-shots we released last night on gamespot -> http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/action/nexu ... ow;thumb;3

So after we put the site up at Midnight MST (-8:00), I got on the #nexuiz IRC chat room to see what some of the concerns you guys in the community had. I'll try my best to address as many questions as I can.......

Hi,
I dont log in here often, but in this situation, I had to express how I feel.
what you people are doing is immoral, wrong, and discusting!
I will be boycotting your product, and will be directing the 200+ people on my PSN to do the same, and direct them to the free, REAL COMMUNITY version of nexuiz.
you have gyped the community, and the developers.
I dont care if you direct me to talk to alien trap. it was you, and your lowlife company, that cant develop their own original game/game engine, that decided to make that moronic deal.
I hope you guys loose everything in the process.

Sorry, d3drocks, but Illfonic did nothing wrong there. They suggested a deal to Vermeulen, Vermeulen accepted it and provided data.

The ONLY issue is that Vermeulen sold something he was not (morally, not legally) entitled to sell: the community of Nexuiz. You are free to blame this on Vermeulen.

This is a general problem that can affect MOST open source projects, as most open source projects don't register their name as a trademark, or protect their community portals in an appropriate way - the problem being that such protection costs money.

The only thing about Illfonic here that I despise is their "this is the best for you" marketing talk. That is just utter nonsense. Most of us are adults, and perfectly capable on deciding on our own what is "best for us". We do not WANT others to decide that in our place. However, this is in no way Illfonic specific - most marketing departments talk like that.

Lamoot wrote:So far we haven't received (if we have please do link and prove me wrong) any explanation as to why Illfonic decided to use exactly the same name. So my simple question is - why?

I think this question is rather obvious to answer, since with the name "Nexuiz" comes the whole reputation the community has built up.

The real question that is open here and was never answered, is a slightly different one. If I am not mistaken, the name was licensed (read it somewhere, not sure how credible the information is), not transferred. If it was transferred, then good night, cu all n have fun. But licensing means you are pretty free to agree on any allowed usage and any disallowed usage. You could even license a name to be used solely in public bathrooms. So the real question that is open here is:

Why was the name "Nexuiz" licensed to IllFonic in a way that allows IllFonic to use the name without any suffix or subtitle for a commercial console game?

The answer "it will give Alientrap and Nexuiz more exposure" is no valid explanation for me, since any other name containing the name "Nexuiz" would have had the same effect.

So I ask: why?


Edit: Btw, does anyone know why my RSS Reader doesn't notify me about news in this thread?

halogene wrote:Edit: Btw, does anyone know why my RSS Reader doesn't notify me about news in this thread?

I receive news of threads on email, and even there they don't come for all the threads I've marked. It may a problem with the forum.

SC0RP wrote:SC0RP's Summary...http://soundcloud.com/sc0rp/and-so-the-battle-continues

I really like the level of madness you have going there, on several levels. :D

EDIT: OH the so "mysterious" phpBB "accidental" "bug" appears. AND why certainly yes, my f'ing phpBB option is on default. :evil:

The way I see it, and I might not be seeing this correctly, is that this is nothing except for a good thing:

1) The main devs might make some money off of this.
2) Development of gpl-nexuiz continues as normal
3) Developers of gpl-nexuiz become more free to implement what they wish because LordHavoc and the professional game developers will be instead focusing on console-nexuiz and thusly leave the gpl-devs to do whatever they want which is a nice breath of fresh air and a removal of alot of pressure that was threatening to fissure the nexuiz developers community (and was). Devs get to do whatever they want.
4) The nexuiz "community" (not devs) is TOTALLY PISSED OFF AND ANNOYED. YES awsome I love this part because the "community" always disliked me for my atrotious views on womyns rights... so them being angry and feeling "dicked over" by IllFonic... I don't know ... makes me feel good.... Like if SHOE and others hate what's happening... that's totally cool. YES BE ANGRY... YESSS EVEN THOUGH IT HAS NO MATERIAL EFFECT ON DEVELOPER'S NEXUIZ ... YESSS YOUR ANGER FEEEELLLSSS GOOOOODDDDDDD.

Win-Win for everyone, other than some pissed off individuals like SHOE. I'm glad some of those non-dev peeps are pissed off. It makes me feel good because they always sent some hate my way and always banned me from their nexuiz servers because they didn't like what I had to say. I hope IllFonic, somehow, does something to piss them off even more (without affecting the devs or the nexuiz-gpl game itself etc)

I think this question is rather obvious to answer, since with the name "Nexuiz" comes the whole reputation the community has built up.

yes , but it was also a question aimed at Illfonic. I know they are busy with GDC, but important questions like this one need to be answered if they are actually serious about building respectful, honest and happy relationship with the Nexuiz community.

tundramagi wrote:The way I see it, and I might not be seeing this correctly, is that this is nothing except for a good thing:

1) The main devs might make some money off of this.
2) Development of gpl-nexuiz continues as normal
3) Developers of gpl-nexuiz become more free to implement what they wish because LordHavoc and the professional game developers will be instead focusing on console-nexuiz and thusly leave the gpl-devs to do whatever they want which is a nice breath of fresh air and a removal of alot of pressure that was threatening to fissure the nexuiz developers community (and was). Devs get to do whatever they want.
4) The nexuiz "community" (not devs) is TOTALLY PISSED OFF AND ANNOYED. YES awsome I love this part because the "community" always disliked me for my atrotious views on womyns rights... so them being angry and feeling "dicked over" by IllFonic... I don't know ... makes me feel good.... Like if SHOE and others hate what's happening... that's totally cool. YES BE ANGRY... YESSS EVEN THOUGH IT HAS NO MATERIAL EFFECT ON DEVELOPER'S NEXUIZ ... YESSS YOUR ANGER FEEEELLLSSS GOOOOODDDDDDD.

Win-Win for everyone, other than some pissed off individuals like SHOE. I'm glad some of those non-dev peeps are pissed off. It makes me feel good because they always sent some hate my way and always banned me from their nexuiz servers because they didn't like what I had to say. I hope IllFonic, somehow, does something to piss them off even more (without affecting the devs or the nexuiz-gpl game itself etc)

Hate to break it to you, kiddo, but I haven't reacted negatively to this at all. I've posted like, twice, maybe, regarding this whole thing, and both posts were positive. I understand the viewpoints of both sides and overall don't feel too affected, though granted I'm barely a part of the community as it is. I appreciate the shout-out, though. I'll buy an extra copy of IllFonic's release in your honor just for that.

Shoe: Go screw yourself to hell.
Lee_Strickland is mighty annoyed at the IllFonic thing AND he also wants to bury me in his 40 acre plot of land.
I'm glad for his anger and annoyance at the whole deal. Makes me feel good. Anyway most of the community is pissed off aswell, and they also believe in women's rights. So, I'm happy that they are pissed off.

PS: I deleted all my maps from circulation. You can't download them when the download links are gone. LOL. HHAHHAHAHA. F-YOU.
Not that you would want to ofcourse, but I just want you to take this as a spiteful, hateful, spit in the face.
It's the most I can do.

Yesterday you had (Q3 remakes)+(Some Good original nexuiz maps)+43 of my maps.
Today you have: (Q3 remakes)+(Some Good original nexuiz maps)

Improvement!

But does anything ever truly disappear from the Internet?

Especially things which are licensed under GPL?

And doubly so things that might get saved for their value of humor?

Questions, questions, so many questions.



I wonder if IllFonic might hire me to port your maps.

Lol my maps suck, no one would ever port them.
Furthermore I'd simply rescind you license (if you had one) in countries that allow that (european etc), if you or (entity) had any connecting with a non anglo country I'd sue you internationally. It would be good practice.

I would do this out of hate.
I hate you.
I hate you because you support women's rights and are a feminist.
I hate you because you oppose things I support (things being to the benefit of men, men having young wives, men not allowing the females to divorce them, etc etc)
I hate you and most of the nexuiz community because of this.
I hate that your kind is what most men are today.
I hate that with your democracy you spread the infection of women's rights around the globe.
I hate you because you and your ilk prevent me (and others like me) from having what I want, and it is something that I am owed as a creature of nature.

I want a nice young wife and you and yours have created and enforce laws that prevent me from having what I want.
I root for the muslims, that they may destroy your feminist nation and your feminist world. They're more to my liking, though not perfect, at least they fight your civilization.

By the way. Licenses are contracts. Contracts require consideration to be valid.
You never supplied yours, nothing at all. One sided contracts are generally not valid.
You never even gave me a speck of pepper as consideration, and now I'm no longer interested in dealing with you, I have deleted all links to my maps.

ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED! (50gs)
LITIGIOUS MISOGYNIST - HAVE LEGAL ACTION THREATENED TO YOU ON THE INTERNET WHILE ALSO PROVING MIKEE'S LAW

Shit dude, I didn't think I'd ever be able to get that one. Thanks for helping a brother out.

Shoe wrote:ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED! (50gs)
LITIGIOUS MISOGYNIST - HAVE LEGAL ACTION THREATENED TO YOU ON THE INTERNET WHILE ALSO PROVING MIKEE'S LAW

Shit dude, I didn't think I'd ever be able to get that one. Thanks for helping a brother out.

HOLY SHIT!1one!!1!eleventy!!!

Can we please have the troll either slapped on the wrist or banned (again)? He's really starting to bug the hell out of me.

Anyway most of the community is pissed off aswell, and they also believe in women's rights. So, I'm happy that they are pissed off.

Nobody is pissed off but your illusions.

Kehdrin:

If you take tundramagi/mikeeusa, we'll call it even.

divVerent wrote:The ONLY issue is that Vermeulen sold something he was not (morally, not legally) entitled to sell: the community of Nexuiz. You are free to blame this on Vermeulen.

Completely agree with divVerent

divVerent wrote:The only thing about Illfonic here that I despise is their "this is the best for you" marketing talk. That is just utter nonsense. Most of us are adults, and perfectly capable on deciding on our own what is "best for us". We do not WANT others to decide that in our place. However, this is in no way Illfonic specific - most marketing departments talk like that.

Again, completely agree.

I didn't follow the whole thing too much: what's the community's forum future: are we going to lose this forum, our usernames, our content?
Or what? forums.alientrap.local is going to remain or not?I hope that next name community chooses for that game it will organize a donation program for the trademark of the name/logo

divVerent wrote:The ONLY issue is that Vermeulen sold something he was not (morally, not legally) entitled to sell: the community of Nexuiz. You are free to blame this on Vermeulen.

The only thing about Illfonic here that I despise is their "this is the best for you" marketing talk. That is just utter nonsense. Most of us are adults, and perfectly capable on deciding on our own what is "best for us". We do not WANT others to decide that in our place. However, this is in no way Illfonic specific - most marketing departments talk like that.

Very true, and very nicely said!

Well, I found out about this today, and I have to say, I'm very disappointed.

The PS3 port is a completely different game, running on a different platform. This fractures the community, between those who play it on the PC, and those who play it on the console. The PC version is very different from the PS3 version, so we don't necessarily gain PC users.

The second thing is that many people worked hard to "spread Nexuiz" because they felt it was the best open source game out there, better then some commercial games even. Now all that effort is benefiting a closed source game. A lot of people feel exploited, including myself.

Third, people's contributions were sold and closed without their permission. Unless they gave up rights to vermuelen, then they still own those contributions, and can sue for a GPL violation. No CLA was signed, so this should be the case.

I think the biggest problem is the whole name thing though.

I'm really curious as of what's the real reason for the deal. I don't see much profit for IllFonic, considering the Linux projects for PS3. People will rather move in that direction, instead of buying a closed-source version of Nexuiz, just to play it on the console.

"To the question, why did he let them use the same exact title as Nexuiz? Vermeulen didnt gave a clearly statement, he just said: "When the deal happened I was under the impression there would be a suffix and I still would like a suffix, more importantly to me is this game actually happening"
from
http://www.moddb.com/games/nexuiz
Some other information there that is new to me.

halogene wrote:

Lamoot wrote:So far we haven't received (if we have please do link and prove me wrong) any explanation as to why Illfonic decided to use exactly the same name. So my simple question is - why?

I think this question is rather obvious to answer, since with the name "Nexuiz" comes the whole reputation the community has built up.

And what reputation has the community built up? Hardly anybody outside of this community knows about us. As is apparent, this whole community resents this action. Therefore, by keeping the same name, they can have both of the people that know about nexuiz and are outside of this community, because I don't think anybody here is thrilled about this clandestine negotiation on the part of Lee and Forest.

Also, what was Vermulean's and Hale's price?

Everyone opposed can join this group. No, we won't change anything, but at least we can voice our opposition. It's not like we have another option.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=369525248850

I think that signing the petition is more efficient (see my sig)

So… can we at least get some stuff they're putting in the console version for the PC version? Dynamic mid-match mutators? They can't keep all the good stuff on the consoles and use our name… speaking of the name, that's part of the whole community-driven essence of the game. If I remember correctly, it got the spelling it has now when someone typo'd while registering the domain name… How can they take THAT and use it for their own game? Why can't they call it something else, if the only thing it has in common with Nexuiz is the Dark Places engine? Why does it have to be called Nexuiz?

And why does the REAL Nexuiz only get a little badge in the corner of the page on nexuiz.com? If you ask me, Fake Nexuiz should be the one getting the little badge in the corner, because Real Nexuiz was the original!

[quote="MC SE7EN"]So… can we at least get some stuff they're putting in the console version for the PC version? Dynamic mid-match mutators? They can't keep all the good stuff on the consoles and use our name… speaking of the name, that's part of the whole community-driven essence of the game. If I remember correctly, it got the spelling it has now when someone typo'd while registering the domain name… How can they take THAT and use it for their own game? Why can't they call it something else, if the only thing it has in common with Nexuiz is the Dark Places engine? Why does it have to be called Nexuiz?

And why does the REAL Nexuiz only get a little badge in the corner of the page on nexuiz.com? If you ask me, Fake Nexuiz should be the one getting the little badge in the corner, because Real Nexuiz was the original![/quote]
You see all of those points you made above?
Invalid.
Nexuiz is sucking illfonic off, and there's nothing we can do but wait and stigmatize.

Furthermore, the media page updated still point to nexuiz.com, which I think should probably be changed to the alientrap page...