tChr wrote:

tZork wrote:Ah and could someone explain to me why just the nexuiz-release included maps are run on ladder servers? i mean its not realy like you can acctualy do somethign abt a client using a homebrew .bsp with the same filename anyways. Just curiose.

Cause the ladder rules limits the maps of choice to a subset of the ones included with nexuiz. Those maps believed to be as balanced as possible.

Well it should be possible to vote extra maps as well at least dont you think so? From experiens there are many bad maps turning out great for minstagib while completely sukking on DM 1on1 (like dismal or nexdm01 whatwazzaname? for example).

According to the ladder rules: actually there are no minstagib ladder ruleas at all yet, to get sum we will certainly have continue our discussion. Ponting out that I'm no friend of jus taking over the DM ladder rules for this one.

tChr wrote:

tZork wrote:Ah and could someone explain to me why just the nexuiz-release included maps are run on ladder servers? i mean its not realy like you can acctualy do somethign abt a client using a homebrew .bsp with the same filename anyways. Just curiose.

Cause the ladder rules limits the maps of choice to a subset of the ones included with nexuiz. Those maps believed to be as balanced as possible.

How stupid (sorry if i squiched some toes there). If both players agree on a map its their problem if it favors one of them somehow. And.. how the hell can a non team based map be balanced?

Well, if the mista ladder gets some sensable rules and a decent score system (imo elo is ill suited for a fps lallder) i may consider acctualy playing it.

Another insteresting ladder would be a "freeform" ladder where players are authenticated and tracked over time using any gamemode and server. This would require some new authentication infrastructure and a central scorekeeper server tho.

tZork: I dont disagree with most you say.. talk to green tiirc the main problem is the methods that are used for challenging. Not always two players agree on beforehand about wich maps to play. I have numerous times suggested solutions to allow any map as long as both players agree.

Well just cuz green does run a ladder one way dosent not stop someone else running another ladder with diffrent rules. Frankly i think the competition would be good since it would force all ladders to be good or better then the alternatives, making them evolve faster.

tZork, tChr, how come you think that ladder is personalized and ruled by GreEn`mArine?

Sure, GreEn "invented" the 1on1/2on2 DM ladder with its ELO system and the whole administration. This doesnt mean GreEn is the ruler of all nexuiz ladders (and I think he as well doesnt consider himself to be).

So especially tZork, you got good ideas and you got the ability and you are free to give the minstagib ladder its body and its soul as well. So all you need is some time to set it up.

edit: d'oh, too late

Well urmel, i been thinking abt this for some time, even since before the current ladder came into exsistance. The type of ladder i whanna implement will use ingame authentication so that the things i mentioned above, and more, is possible. This is however far from a trivial thing to implement and i just havent had the time for it.

I know i know tZork. Sum stuff takes so much time, even if you got the skillz to do so. We all have to waste most of our time in working for the money we need to live

One thing I'm quite sure about is: a minstagib ladder would be half dead as the current ones

Urmel... wrote:One thing I'm quite sure about is: a minstagib ladder would be half dead as the current ones

huh ? you prolly wanted to say "a minstagib ladder wouldn't be half dead as the current ones" ?

anyway. The thing tZork is talking about is a completely different thing which wouldn't have anything todo with the current "Nexuiz ladder" ... but much more with the a global raknking system. The DCC-Server-page has such a thing for all DCC Servers.

I was never eager to create a (M)Instagib ladder, especially since I would have to decide about its rules which, imo, I'm not able to do "right". The initial goal of this thread was to allow Urmel to discuss (and to finaly get results from the discussion) new ladder rules for the minstagib-ladder, so that they fit to a 1on1 Instagib Ladder properly. However, since this thread started, I cannot see a clear conclusion about the settings (e.g. for the time/fraglimit, the weapon reload time, the weapon dmg (instant kill or with kill with >1 shots), whether to take Minstagib or usual Instagib, etc.). So I am still waiting.

And obviously tZork still is not pleased with the fact that I didn't include the possibility to allow the players to choose any, when both players agree on it. I decided not to include it because we didn't get a final solution HOW to do it, and even if we would .. well ... the code is actually a "mess", and it would mean quite a lot of work to extend it I guess.

btw

There is a kwite abandoned irc channel nexuiz.minstagib on quakenet where everybody is invited to come along and discuss about the minsta ladder as we're all aware that GreEn can't do it all all the time

GreEn`mArine wrote:

Urmel... wrote:One thing I'm quite sure about is: a minstagib ladder would be half dead as the current ones

huh ? you prolly wanted to say "a minstagib ladder wouldn't be half dead as the current ones" ?

anyway. The thing tZork is talking about is a completely different thing which wouldn't have anything todo with the current "Nexuiz ladder" ... but much more with the a global raknking system. The DCC-Server-page has such a thing for all DCC Servers.

Well not realy. The DCC servers are running a unauthenticated stats system, very nicely done but it not at al the type of system i been thinking abt. A very basic, and important, cornerstone in my idea is the ability of the client to prove its identity to the server, ie registerd players. There could be diffrent subsystems to collect rankings for diffrent gametypes, teams etc. Afaik theres no sutch system built into nexuiz/darkpaces so it would have to be done from the ground up. Not mentioning the hastle with server/database magagment and getting teh results fairly secure. Once sutch a system is built a 1on1 ladder, 3v7 minsta runematch-ctf or whatever is an easy extention.

GreEn`mArine wrote:I was never eager to create a (M)Instagib ladder, especially since I would have to decide about its rules which, imo, I'm not able to do "right". The initial goal of this thread was to allow Urmel to discuss (and to finaly get results from the discussion) new ladder rules for the minstagib-ladder, so that they fit to a 1on1 Instagib Ladder properly. However, since this thread started, I cannot see a clear conclusion about the settings (e.g. for the time/fraglimit, the weapon reload time, the weapon dmg (instant kill or with kill with >1 shots), whether to take Minstagib or usual Instagib, etc.). So I am still waiting.

And obviously tZork still is not pleased with the fact that I didn't include the possibility to allow the players to choose any, when both players agree on it. I decided not to include it because we didn't get a final solution HOW to do it, and even if we would .. well ... the code is actually a "mess", and it would mean quite a lot of work to extend it I guess.

Well i never realy cared for this type of ladder, so i dont have to mutch feelings or insights abt it. What im saying is that i find this odd, but if the code is a mess it could be trixy to extend. just remeber bugs like to make messy places their home

Sometime after new yeras i may have enougth free time to start implementning my ideas for a "registerd players system", but as usual theres no guarantees.

Hi!

I've just played a very nice match 2on2 minsta. How about making this a ladder mode? So far I don't think it would need any modifications, it worked out nice. Maybe 10 minutes instead of 15, that's it )

MM

Well i think the 2on2 ladder is not that active.. we still have to see what happens to the 3on3 ctf ladder. I try to tell as many people on servers about it as i can so there will be enough people to form teams. Not sure if an other ladder will help, i guess it will be hard to find enough people.

MisterMeister wrote:Hi!

I've just played a very nice match 2on2 minsta. How about making this a ladder mode? So far I don't think it would need any modifications, it worked out nice. Maybe 10 minutes instead of 15, that's it )

MM

I think that idea is crap!!!!!

Cortez: I totally understand you point, thanks for your complex argumentation.

Esteel: Another suggestion: Why not let the people on the 2on2-ladder choose, which mode to play. When you challenge another team, you decide whether it shall be normal dm or minsta. So it's just one ladder.

MisterMeister wrote:Cortez: I totally understand you point, thanks for your complex argumentation.

Esteel: Another suggestion: Why not let the people on the 2on2-ladder choose, which mode to play. When you challenge another team, you decide whether it shall be normal dm or minsta. So it's just one ladder.

more crappy this idea

because most of the team dont like minesta and i for my way would quite

what will you do if one team want play minsta and the other not? If the challenger want to play minsta and the other team not what should be done there?

EDIT: WE HAD ALREADY SUCH A DISSCUISON!!!!

I think that would just confuse too many people.. The idea is nice but once this gets started were will be the limit? Laserguided rockets? Vampiremode? Hook? I think a ladder should stick to its rules and some of those rules regard the gamemode.
But we can always try to make irc more popular.. #nexuiz.minstagib on quakenet is just waiting for some action

cortez wrote:EDIT: WE HAD ALREADY SUCH A DISSCUISON!!!!

Dearest Cortez, would you please calm down. You are not obliged to take part in everything just because it exists.

I know you're a little younger than most of us and hot blooded, but that cannot excuse everything. You gotta respect other points of view if you want others to respect yours.

And let me say in addition, excessive usage of capital letters and exclamation marks is a sign of real bad manners. So please be a little more friendly. This is not a Counter Strike forum.

Urmel... wrote:

cortez wrote:EDIT: WE HAD ALREADY SUCH A DISSCUISON!!!!

Dearest Cortez, would you please calm down. You are not obliged to take part in everything just because it exists.

I know you're a little younger than most of us and hot blooded, but that cannot excuse everything. You gotta respect other points of view if you want others to respect yours.

And let me say in addition, excessive usage of capital letters and exclamation marks is a sign of real bad manners. So please be a little more friendly. This is not a Counter Strike forum.

With the WE HAD ALREADY SUCH A DISSCUISON!!!! in capital letters i only want to underline that it is useless to discuss it because the minsta mod would not be in the ladder.

Ok maybe MisterMeister not get the discussion so i´m sorry if he didnt get it.

I honestly don't expect this discussion to come to any properr result either.

There's just too much hassle about the settings, although, in my opinion, we should just use the default settings and this is it.

However, I'd rather like the existitng team ladders to evolve a bit more. And at the moment I'm still not satisfied with the current 2on2 TDM ladder, as most of the maps we play there are (good) 1on1 maps, and playing them 2on2 really feels like being on a public server (too crowded). However, I have no idea how the maps would work for a 2on2 Minstagib ladder.

cortez wrote:

Urmel... wrote:

cortez wrote:EDIT: WE HAD ALREADY SUCH A DISSCUISON!!!!

Dearest Cortez, would you please calm down. You are not obliged to take part in everything just because it exists.

I know you're a little younger than most of us and hot blooded, but that cannot excuse everything. You gotta respect other points of view if you want others to respect yours.

And let me say in addition, excessive usage of capital letters and exclamation marks is a sign of real bad manners. So please be a little more friendly. This is not a Counter Strike forum.

With the WE HAD ALREADY SUCH A DISSCUISON!!!! in capital letters i only want to underline that it is useless to discuss it because the minsta mod would not be in the ladder.

Ok maybe MisterMeister not get the discussion so i´m sorry if he didnt get it.

Caps only sentances, general outbursts without any reason and stuff like that are not ok on this forum. Theres no point in using CAPS when you can use bold, underline, both or even HUGE text when called for. Stating that a disscusion alredy has taken place one, however, is not important imformation, and does not call for any kinda atention grabbing enhancers what so ever.

Having any one disscusion only once is rather unlikely to be enougth, if someone wisths to further disscus something thats just fine, things chnage and disscusions are what forums are for. As Urmel elegantly pointed out you dont need to participate in the result of, or the disscusion if it does not interest you. so.. keep it polite or join the ban-bin, you have been warned.

And btw, as long as this thread isn't locked by some admin or moderator, everybody's free to continue the discussion about a minstagib ladder.

Just because the minstagibbers obviously are too limited to discuss and generate their ladder, doesn't mean there will never be one, right?

Urmel... wrote:And btw, as long as this thread isn't locked by some admin or moderator, everybody's free to continue the discussion about a minstagib ladder.

Just because the minstagibbers obviously are too limited to discuss and generate their ladder, doesn't mean there will never be one, right?

Do you dream about it Urmel?
You´ll be the first one who know about the ladder and the frist one on it

Myello. Just wanna make my voice heard. I've been playin some pub in this game and i enjoy it rly. But what i miss is what ur talking about in this thread. The best times i had in quakelike-games was in q3 when the freezerail + instagib-CTF was being played. And if tjhat would be made for Nexuiz, even if its just for 1on1's, i'd prolly start playin this game . Oh btw, it should be INSTAgib with 1hitkill. That's what really makes instagib to instagib (or minstagib in Nexiuz? Im not sure what u call it in this game soz )

oh. and imo powerups shouldnt be used for 1on1's. Think the best aimer should be the winner, not the one taking use of powerups.

there once was an instagib mutator for nexuiz, but it was somewhat changed and the name turned into minstagib. We dont really agree weither the "m" is for "modified" or "minimal" I run a minstagib CTF server. 1on1 ladder games are not played with powerups.

tChr wrote:there once was an instagib mutator for nexuiz, but it was somewhat changed and the name turned into minstagib.

Regular instagib is still there, but no one plays it... Even though vampire instagib is quite funny

hi
Nexuiz ist a good game and + minstagib very nice ... i play the mod only =)
plz open a 1on1 and 2on2 minstagib ladder =)