I was reading this thread a few days ago and then spent a while trying to fix some of the problems people had with the crylink and hagar. I think I found a good solution to the crylink, but I have no idea what to do with the hagar.


For the crylink, try changing the settings ingame to this:
ammo 1, spread 0.03, and refire 0.25, shots 4
I think this should be the new primary. Its kinda spammy, but it works well and is fun to play with. Currently I think it is overpowered, but it just needs balancing.

With the hagar, we tried having a bouncing missile but it doesn't work. I think it should just stay the same for now, we pretty much covered every possible secondary fire for a projectile (without getting weird and stupid)

And yeah I agree with Wazat about more config options. It wouldn't be that hard to change the QC around so every projectile weapon uses the same code, then just has a bunch of cvars for what kind of weapon it is. Cvars for model, spread, speed of projectile, everything for every weapon.

I still find Hagar altfire useful because you can hit people with it who are located on a higher level than you (and you can e.g. only see their head/parts of the body). The falling projectiles make it possible to hit them anyway.

However I don't think it would be a bad idea to have something differently introduced for the Hagar alt-fire

Vermeulen: Interesting. Perhaps you could simply have some weapon templates for each of the various attack styles, which could be applied for firing (hagar code vs rocket launcher), impact, think, etc. That would be a pain to program but it would be incredibly adaptable. Something for the future, perhaps. It might not be too hard to make a lot of weapons bounce. The question is whether or not that's worth the development time. :/

I do think we should make the crylink bullets bounce once or twice. With a slightly lower rate of fire (and considering the speed those bullets travel), the entities wouldn't last long enough to double up and spam too much. We could even reduce it to 3-5 potent bullets, though it would lose some visual effect.

That's cool that you've been fiddling with the weapons. I'll try those crylink settings later today. I'm interested in seeing how the weapon feels firing 4 times per second at low spread. That could very well be what the weapon needs.

Speaking of the Hagar, have you ever played my "Jeht" Quake mod? It had a weapon called the Resonac Arbitor (in all its low-pixel, 2001-quality glory ) which functioned similarly to the Hagar. I think the main difference is the bullet impact delay and the sounds -- the Arbitor hits immediately and has a loud, commanding boom with each shot. This makes it feel like a powerful, angry weapon. I wonder if that's what the Hagar is missing.
I'd love it if you tried the mod, just for kicks if nothing else. Against all reason, my website is still up and working, so you could download Jeht there if you're interested (if not, I'm not offended. ).


GreEn`mArine: That's true. The ballistics on the hagar can give you an advantage, especially when an opponent is above you or far away. I'm wondering what kinds of replacements could keep that quality... or if we should replace it at all.


later, all!

Just to give an update to the current or better upcoming 1.6 situation:
The hagar still has the current primary attack and the secondary attack was changed to be like the primary but the projectiles will bounce exactly one time.
The crylink still has the same secondary attack (flat wide spread) and the primary was only slightly changed, the function is still the same but its now refires twice as fast and fires only half the balls (4) so its like a mixture of the shotgun and machinegun

didn't want to create a new subject for that... so i ask it here :

- in order to try somethings about lights and shadows on mac, i downloaded the last release candidate... so i tried it and omg, it seams that the laser makes me jump really less high than before... Can somebody confirm it ?

That was because the spawn locations for the projectiles have slightly changed.. should be better again in 1.6.

Please change the laser sound as you're at it.. you c
an have mine for free http://excalibur.nvg.ntnu.no/nexuiz/pk3s/weapons_tchrsounds.pk3

edit: I know its weird.. but its still shitloads better then che cannon sound in 1.5. Its a small electrical weapon damnit, not a artilelrey gun.

how about hagar secondary being a close quarters clearance weapon?

large spread, huge rate of fire, but low on duration, wastes ammo like crazy.
also maybe chance of inadvertant self damage when abused.
cant remember which game, but one weapon if discharged for too long would shake so much as to make aim impossible.

a bit like the GAU8 on A10 tankbusters. any more than a second of fire and you pay a considerable price on stability.

Wazat wrote:
Speaking of the Hagar, have you ever played my "Jeht" Quake mod? It had a weapon called the Resonac Arbitor (in all its low-pixel, 2001-quality glory ) which functioned similarly to the Hagar. I think the main difference is the bullet impact delay and the sounds -- the Arbitor hits immediately and has a loud, commanding boom with each shot. This makes it feel like a powerful, angry weapon. I wonder if that's what the Hagar is missing.
I'd love it if you tried the mod, just for kicks if nothing else. Against all reason, my website is still up and working, so you could download Jeht there if you're interested (if not, I'm not offended. ).

I haven't yet but I'll try it. I don't think the hagar sound is the problem though, to me it sounds really powerful.

I too love the ned hagar sound.. It really sounds devastating. The effect ovever, seems reduced since < 1.5

Vermeulen wrote:For the crylink, try changing the settings ingame to this:
ammo 1, spread 0.03, and refire 0.25, shots 4
I think this should be the new primary. Its kinda spammy, but it works well and is fun to play with. Currently I think it is overpowered, but it just needs balancing.

I tried it just now and I think it's loads better than the old one. I definitely recommend it.

I also tried with a spread of 0.07 and liked that more, though power issues should be worked out. Problem is, bots aren't good for determining weapon power since they don't know how to use rapid-fire guns properly, and they generally don't move like humans.

Most importantly, I realized we really need different cvars for the primary and secondary spread. If we do make the primary 0.03, that's way too small for the secondary (which should probably be 0.07 or higher) and they both end up being too much the same. So a spread2 cvar would be a good thing to add.


BTW, has anyone played the invasion mode in UT2004? I recently played that with friends on a lan and really enjoyed it! That and Onslaught are our favorite modes (along with Mutant as a runner-up). I think it would be cool to add a monster invasion mode, though we'd need a lot of creature models & sounds. ^_^

There are two variables in svn/1.6:
set g_balance_crylink_primary_spread 0.08
set g_balance_crylink_secondary_spread 0.08
Almost all weapon cvar have been renamed in such a fashion..

Maybe a bit more spread but 0.07 seems a bit too much, it should still be used for med distance fighting.
I was thinking that the 1.5 primary fire for the crylink would be moved to secondary, with this idea replacing the current primary

Hmm... As long as you have different rates of fire and different spread for both attacks, you could probably pull that off rather well. Large spread cluster & many bullets for the secondary (current crylink), smaller spread and faster rate of fire for the primary.

Sounds good. Play-test it to death first, though.

Wazat wrote:Does the nex have locational damage? I imagine a body shot could do the normal amount of damage, but a head shot could award the user with 500 or so damage... That way only a player with some armor and 200 hp would survive a precise aim.

some time ago (on old forum) i was asking the same but seems that nexuiz doesnt support locational damage at all..

is it that difficult to implement? giving a headshot would be an...an... an orgasm..

seriously... it's a very nice feature to play with.. please devs you have done miracles.. do one more

Milla wrote:

Wazat wrote:Does the nex have locational damage? I imagine a body shot could do the normal amount of damage, but a head shot could award the user with 500 or so damage... That way only a player with some armor and 200 hp would survive a precise aim.

some time ago (on old forum) i was asking the same but seems that nexuiz doesnt support locational damage at all..

is it that difficult to implement? giving a headshot would be an...an... an orgasm..

seriously... it's a very nice feature to play with.. please devs you have done miracles.. do one more

Depends on how you "define" headshot.

The quick and dirty wa to do it would be to check the z position of the hitlocation on the players hitbox. If thats is rougthly in the head ares - give a headshot. This method could be implemented in a small amnt of dev time since its very simple and requiers no changes to game media.

Method #2 would be to acctualy hitcheck the polygons that makes up the head of the player. This whould be a mutch more accurate way of doining it, and would proly requier media changes (separating the players heads from the rest of the model) and lots of new code since nexuiz is not built with locational damage in mind.

Method one is the only one i can see happening anytime soon in a mod or even in the main release since it seems very mutch work to implement # 2. Given the fast pace of nexuiz the lack of presition in # 1 may go unnoticed.

yea i agree, the first option would be enough, for now

it's actually also a matter of whether people want that.

I would be strictly against somehing like that .. I love the fact that hit is hit .. no matter where

yea sure, but a damage boost when hitting head would be good.. but even if noone would like this, plz, implement at least a message or something else

tnx