Yes, I'd like an option to allow voters to change their vote in phpBB (maybe when creating the poll as a checkbox) especially for such cases.

I'll take it into account when counting the vote results.

Finally there is an option, which suits me:
Just Points, No Frags - Full Flag Carrier Speed OR Captures Only - Reduced Flag Carrier Speed

divVerent wrote:... Text based votes are bad TOO, as you can't count them ...

http://alientrap.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2129&sid=fb92dc7717891ecb60c6216c96e5c549

Positions were tallied and changed accordingly, decisions was evaluated as qualitative weighted quantity. [Importance of vote based on explanation]

Do something productive, or shut up.

Make your own poll, it won't change anything about the 33%/33%/33% distribution among these three options - which is why I made this poll now, asking for all options one would be willing to accept.

I really am annoyed by you, TVR.

A new poll has been created in order to be less mutually exclusive.

I disagree with the new poll, simply because it does not even try to answer the concrete questions this one is about.

Anyway, to count the current results:

19 players have voted.
6 would accept "frags and points - full speed", 13 are against it.
10 would accept "just points, no frags - full speed", 9 are against it (after correcting ai's vote)
9 would accept "captures only - reduced speed", 10 are against it.

That's a clear result against "frags and points - full speed", while the other options are far from being decided yet. We need more votes!

I recommend informing more people on servers about this change. There are a lot of folk who are regular players, but not on the forums. They should know.

Sepelio wrote:I recommend informing more people on servers about this change. There are a lot of folk who are regular players, but not on the forums. They should know.

Most people do not care or will not understand. it seems like only those fast enough are affected and worried about this fc slowdown thing

While you are not really the fastest, and they care and are affected.

Alien wrote:While you are not really the fastest, and they care and are affected.

I am afraid you do not qualify for "slow" either.

Why dont limit the time for capping for each player?

I mean: 15 minutes is the duration of the match: u have to attack for 7:30, and 7:30 to defend. To do this it should be implemented that during defending time, the flag can't be taken. The time can be splited in other ways: 2 mins attacking, 2 mins defending and so on for the rest of the game.

The server could decide at the begginning of the match the players that can attack and the players that dont, splitting the single team in attackers and defenders and change them during the game (a countdown can be shown for remaining time in assigned role).

What do u all think about this idea?

terencehill wrote:What do u all think about this idea?

I think in Henry Ford's new America, the assembly line was so successful because it required only knowing the skills to get your part of the job done. Knowing how to build the whole car is an option but not a requirement. Not everyone's made a Defender, a Midfielder, an Offensive player or Flag Carrier.

In an ideal world or with a team of players whom you play with well, you can develop the skills necessary for such a performance but I believe forcing this upon people may confuse or irritate them.

Would make sense to have the CTF scoring options configurable in the server config file? So that the server admin can decide what is best for his intended audience.

Of course they will be configurable. Actually, they already are, and some of the suggestions that have been discussed are available as .cfg file.

Also, g_ctf_win_mode switches between four major scoring modes:
0 = caps only, in event of tie, the match continues (overtime)
1 = caps only, in event of tie, points and frags count
2 = points and frags
3 = points only

Terencehill proposal sparked another thing, that mode in UT where you have certain targets which you need to get to. There's attackers and defenders, and in the end they switch roles. World in Confilct has that kind of mode too, or similar.

However, this discussion do not take place here and that's for another time.

That mode is called Assault and supposedly works just fine already. We just need maps for it.

Oh, didn't know that. Then we have to make maps

divVerent wrote:That mode is called Assault and supposedly works just fine already. We just need maps for it.

There is no tutorial for it, thus no maps. Same with onslaught.

Then write one, whoever can. This game is open source.

Still, WHY a tutorial for onslaught? It is SO DAMN SIMPLE, entities.def explains it enough.

For Assault, ask SavageX. BTW, an Assault map is just being made.

This is the current state of an assault map I'm working on: http://savagex.planetnexuiz.de/canyonassault_a1.pk3

Yes, I *know* the lava cave is horrible and needs either a complete replacement or major tweaking.

edit: may only work in SVN, not 2.4.2 (not sure, though)

divVerent wrote:Then write one, whoever can. This game is open source.

Still, WHY a tutorial for onslaught? It is SO DAMN SIMPLE, entities.def explains it enough.

For Assault, ask SavageX. BTW, an Assault map is just being made.

For ONS: because I've never played ONS yet people want spirecontrol to be ONS... so ... I just need the "put x to y, and connect z to v, and you have a basic ons map"

I'd like to finish my own assault map but connecting the stuff together is much harder than programming and when I try to play it on 2.4.2 blue and red spawn randomly.

A tut is needed. I'm not the only one who has failed at making an assault map. Other peeps were making one but quit it seems. It is absolutly rediciously complex.

Definitly needs a tut. It would be nice if whoever made the insanely complex gametype made a tut with diagrams and all that jazz

People make CTF maps rather than assault maps because CTF is easy yet can support large maps and defense/offensive teamplay anyway.

If you have never played ONS, you should first play it and learn how it works before making a map for it, so you know what's important for ONS gameplay. See the map ons-reborn included with Nexuiz.

Once you get the basic idea of ONS, you can make a map supporting it.

But please add more weapons in your onsmap @mapmakers

terencehill wrote:Why dont limit the time for capping for each player?

I mean: 15 minutes is the duration of the match: u have to attack for 7:30, and 7:30 to defend. To do this it should be implemented that during defending time, the flag can't be taken. The time can be splited in other ways: 2 mins attacking, 2 mins defending and so on for the rest of the game.

The server could decide at the begginning of the match the players that can attack and the players that dont, splitting the single team in attackers and defenders and change them during the game (a countdown can be shown for remaining time in assigned role).

What do u all think about this idea?

The idea is win. I support.

That's no CTF any more... but why not as a mod. Could be neat.

Actually, it is very similar to the "Assassins" mod for DM...

alpha wrote:

terencehill wrote:Why dont limit the time for capping for each player?

I mean: 15 minutes is the duration of the match: u have to attack for 7:30, and 7:30 to defend. To do this it should be implemented that during defending time, the flag can't be taken. The time can be splited in other ways: 2 mins attacking, 2 mins defending and so on for the rest of the game.

The server could decide at the begginning of the match the players that can attack and the players that dont, splitting the single team in attackers and defenders and change them during the game (a countdown can be shown for remaining time in assigned role).

What do u all think about this idea?

The idea is win. I support.

Please not, this isn't realy ctf anymore. There's already the new gamemod "Assault", you can try it out with Savage's testmap. Just download it, copy&past it into your data folder, open nexuiz, open the console and write "map canyonassault_a1". Enjoy!

btw: sorry.. but this stupid bots

Fisume! wrote:

alpha wrote:

terencehill wrote:Why dont limit the time for capping for each player?

I mean: 15 minutes is the duration of the match: u have to attack for 7:30, and 7:30 to defend. To do this it should be implemented that during defending time, the flag can't be taken. The time can be splited in other ways: 2 mins attacking, 2 mins defending and so on for the rest of the game.

The server could decide at the begginning of the match the players that can attack and the players that dont, splitting the single team in attackers and defenders and change them during the game (a countdown can be shown for remaining time in assigned role).

What do u all think about this idea?

The idea is win. I support.

Please not, this isn't realy ctf anymore. There's already the new gamemod "Assault", you can try it out with Savage's testmap. Just download it, copy&past it into your data folder, open nexuiz, open the console and write "map canyonassault_a1". Enjoy!

btw: sorry.. but this stupid bots

Also CTF already exists: look in server list how many ctf servers exist. And it is still CTF (capture the flag) .degreen with the fc slow.

The problem we are talking about is to make players play more on defence instead of attacking like crazy all the time. And in Nexuiz CTF forcing players to defend is the only way (keeping in mind the current scoring system).

The fc slow is a solution (I don't know how effective, but not so much for what I've seen) but I don't like it simply coz it's unfair. That's why i'm proposing new solutions.

terencehill wrote:Why dont limit the time for capping for each player?

Because that would destroy the few occasions in which a team actually organizes itself and certain people go for attack and others take care of the defense.

It would also be disgusting if you hurry to the enemy base - hindered by some opponents - and when you finally reach the enemy flag your status switches to "defender" just in time.

RoKenn wrote:

terencehill wrote:Why dont limit the time for capping for each player?

Because that would destroy the few occasions in which a team actually organizes itself and certain people go for attack and others take care of the defense.

There is not need to organize the team if the sever organize it for u. And this would happen in every game, not in those few ones that u r talking.

It would also be disgusting if you hurry to the enemy base - hindered by some opponents - and when you finally reach the enemy flag your status switches to "defender" just in time.

well... not a good thing... but it's a system and each system have pros and cons.
If the time for defending is long then this would happen less times, if it is short, more times.

Well ... too bad that I definitely have no time for reading the entire thread, I'll just post my thoughts about this:

I've voted for Frags And Points - Full Flag Carrier Speed (like 2.42) ONLY because I've been playing lately under this mode in Urban Terror CTF, different public servers, and perceived most players tend to play like a team and not just individuals, ie: enforcing defense, middle-field or attacking as needed, and issuing more team communication than I'm used to see in public Nexuiz servers.

In this mode only flag captures is what matters, no returns/kills/etc, so here is no point on beign selfish, if you see your team losing you feel that you are losing too and this encourages to fill any void your team is having.

However returns/kills/deaths/etc are tracked just for statistical purposes, I think this is a must in order to know how a player is performing.

I don't like any solution involving slowing down the flag carriers and/or wave respawns, because this is just against the Nexuiz vision: A fast paced game.

I've been playing a lot of Nexuiz CTF in the last 11 months and I'm just saying that I clearly noticed a difference in the behaviour of most players comparing both scoring systems.

And I think the problem you are trying to solve is way complicated: trying to put a barrier/limit in players who don't understand that their behaviour is hurting their team, and this is a social/cultural problem. This will never be easy to fix through a computer system, without creating a whole lot of restrictions.

Maybe we don't have to decide just one scoring method, we can choose the most voted options, then test it empirically on different public servers, measure what happened with each case.

I encourage to keep looking in the less obvious places, for example if the new team radar is enabled by default, it would be easy for any player to understand that there is no one on their base, this is a quick and visual suggestion for switching to defense at least for some minutes. Also having at hand CTF communication binds by default should be helpful.

Cheers