i just want to emphasize that i'm far from one of the fastest cappers so you can't pigeonhole me in with those who "soley rely on speed." and in my experience the reduction has more of a vertical bias against it, making upward scaling more tricky, horizontally it's effect is mostly marginal. this is the issue with maps like greatwall, dance, etc where you need to go forward as well as up (in most cases) for a clean escape.

i dislike, however, that someone can say "this tactic is bad, we're biasing against it." if "we" bias against defenders through scoring, and bias against runners through reduction, we're fraying margins for what? to allow the opinions of some to come in line with reality at the cost of those of others?

discounting the issue of imbalanced teams on public servers, which so far isn't addressed as far as i can tell, the game works remarkably well. i wonder at what point everyone will say nexuiz is what it is (in terms of balance, gameplay) and there exists no "flaws" inherent to it, only it's unique blend of approaches. striving for perfectibility in matters of taste is just going to, at some end, alienate some group or another.

I understood the first sentence, then the rest is gibberish for me. Use more simple English without word-puzzle. "If we bias defenders, and unbias attackers, then the margin will fray in the coherent value of vertical exponent. Not to mention the inherent taste of the horizontally escape of reduction." That's kinda gibberish. :p

Anyway, I didn't say 'only' those who rely on speed, I said 'basically' only those. So far, I've been hearing negative things from those who usually cap. I even had a conversation with one of those people and said that this will encourage team play, but when I said he could try to act like a teammate he actually REFUSED to do it, yet he whined about the reduction. Such people has no say in the matter IMO, as he only want to cap, nothing else. (That's the basic story, there's a little more to it than that but it pretty much sums up that way)

Fast cappers don't encourage teamplay. They work against it. Thinking about Capturecity where one can RL himself over to the other side literally from flag to flag without landing anywhere else. Now of course the map here is also at fault, but it's still possible. I don't think the mapper intended for that to be possible. I think he wanted people to at least land on the ground and run a bit.

inficio wrote:discounting the issue of imbalanced teams on public servers, which so far isn't addressed as far as i can tell, the game works remarkably well. i wonder at what point everyone will say nexuiz is what it is (in terms of balance, gameplay) and there exists no "flaws" inherent to it, only it's unique blend of approaches. striving for perfectibility in matters of taste is just going to, at some end, alienate some group or another.

Which is why I completely support the idea of having two game modes, and leaving the choice to the server admin, one with the normal FC speed, frags count as points and one with cap only points and the 70% reduction. There is no need to "alienate" one group or the other, it depends on what the server admins want to run. Imo the cap only and 70% FC speed is much more true to the idea of actual CTF and is relatively close to what other games offer as CTF, while the Nexuiz approach is more like an original TDM with lots of extras.

Also while some of the vertical jumps you mention are indeed harder to get they are still very much working the difference is that you don't get as much vertical boost but I've yet to meet an un-scalable wall because of the change, as for the Dance map I find the changes make it way more interesting and the quad self boost reduction makes it even better.

I had a suggestion but forgot to include it in my post:

If you decide to limit the flag carrier's movement, make it possible to pass the flag to a teammate. I believe that would encourage teamwork.

Also, an overall speed limit is just ridiculous imo. The best way to do it (and most logical) is to make the flag carrier effectively heavier (the flag has mass) so that his weapons still work normally, but he simply gets less boost from them.

ai wrote:Fast cappers don't encourage teamplay. They work against it.

I couldn't disagree more.

This is assuming teammates need to by up the flag carrier's ass to help out. Which is untrue. A good team will provide cover for the flag carrier.

When someone is holding a flag, it should be considered a liability. The team should work together by any means necessary to provide cover for the flag carrier and hold down their base to prevent the enemy from creating a stalemate situation by stealing your flag.

The faster you can close this window, the better flag carrier you are. Poor teamwork inadvertently causes flag carriers to become faster to close this window even faster when they feel they cannot rely on their team.

Consequences of current scoring GPMs [GamePlay Mechanics]: Quake & UT style CTF maps are inviable, only mojoCTF & cbctf1 are balanced with Nexuiz' CTF GPMs.

Solution: Play more Keyhunt, Herforst CTF, or consider suggestion.

Suggestion: Reduced flag carrier speed, no flag returns - flags remains at drop location for a period of time, frags count [each frag hampers the opposing team], wave respawn.

TVR wrote:Consequences of current scoring GPMs: Quake & UT style CTF maps are inviable, only mojoCTF & cbctf1 are balanced with Nexuiz' CTF GPMs.

I have no idea was GPM is

TVR wrote:Suggestion: Reduced flag carrier speed, no flag returns - flags remains at drop location for a period of time, frags count [each frag hampers the opposing team], wave respawn.

Hell no!

ai wrote:I understood the first sentence, then the rest is gibberish for me. Use more simple English without word-puzzle. "If we bias defenders, and unbias attackers, then the margin will fray in the coherent value of vertical exponent. Not to mention the inherent taste of the horizontally escape of reduction." That's kinda gibberish. :p

Inficio wanted to say that most disagreement comes from not being able to jump high enough. Also that camping-defending strategy is just another viable option, same as speed capping.

Xeno wrote:Also, an overall speed limit is just ridiculous imo. The best way to do it (and most logical) is to make the flag carrier effectively heavier (the flag has mass) so that his weapons still work normally, but he simply gets less boost from them.

Why is it ridiculous? The whole speed reduce suggestion was made to increase the possibility to stop flag carrier. If you limit max speed, the goal will be reached. With this system in proposal the goal won't be achieved cause people learn will to gain speed before taking the flag (eg. rocketboost before pickup). => So it won't stop experienced cappers from reaching great speed in advance, only make new players unable to cap.

And this poll is not about possible teamplay, etc. This is about the FC speed in which case we can presume the worst case happening (e.g. you have no team or your team is unable to play as a team). If we vote considering that BOTH teams play as REAL teams, it most often won't work in practice on public servers. Be realistic and look at the current state of it. Teaching players is very good, but we shouldn't depend on it.

Maps where you do not need to take any curves to cap are bad and broken. Don't care.

Maps where you DO have to take curves limit your speed there, so boosting before flag taking won't help much.

divVerent wrote:Maps where you do not need to take any curves to cap are bad and broken. Don't care.

Maps where you DO have to take curves limit your speed there, so boosting before flag taking won't help much.

Taking this into the account and removing no curves maps from the map pool, reducing fc speed makes less sense then. Btw, question to mappers, is it possible to make open maps with curves? It would be bad if we limit mappers and our visual experience to only confined environments.

i could get behind fc reduction as an alternate game mode if it had a couple other changes to maybe make nex somewhat more tactical or team orientated. (what those changes would be, i don't know, just saying...)

there's a mindless element (on the public server level) to nexuiz that's very akin to an arcade experience. there's depth, but it's subtle. i'd hate for nex to lose that. but another mode that explores more of it might not be such a bad thing.

i think the ability to drop/pass off flag could be awesome.

Alien wrote:Btw, question to mappers, is it possible to make open maps with curves? It would be bad if we limit mappers and our visual experience to only confined environments.

That would be very hard to get right, you can just go above the curves and fly away, facing worlds uses a big hurt brush to stop people from flying from the top of one tower to the other, it is very weird and annoying. Most space maps are easy to fly through, because they are big and open, vertically speaking so either way you go open and with curves will be hard if not impossible to achieve. Some play out well enough tough, with the 70% boost they play even better, these types of maps would benefit the most out of the change. While the other more "curved" and vertically limited maps would barely be changed, except for the inability of the FC to reach a high platform with just one laser, something he can't do but his or the enemy team can, of course there is always the option of using two lasers, another boost friendly weapon at the cost of a bit more life or just taking another route.

Inficio, FC speed reduction wouldn't be an alternate game mode, that and caps only would be CTF, the "new" game mode will be the current settings we have for CTF(as it is quite different than CTF, I vote for the NTF name ). Nex is and always will be a tactical weapon, it's just its miss-use on maps that make it "campy", having 6 of them on Facing(open map, plenty of places to hide behind while covering a lot of the map) for example makes it easy to camp, that is the map problem tough, not the weapon itself, having just two would change the map. Using it in more cramped environments tough is a whole different story, that's where the weapon truly shines for me, but not having it on a big open map would make it impossible to stop the FC if he is to far away. Also I agree on the pass/drop the flag, that's a very very good idea.

Biggest problem with reduced laser jump boost: it breaks maps. Many maps are set up so that a distance from one ledge to the next is exactly 1 laser jump. If the laser boost is reduced for the fc, then there are portions of the map that are effectively cut off for the fc.

The other thing that I find is that it really does nothing. Red Dragon still caps faster than everyone else, but slightly slower than he does with regular fc physics. But when a good nexer is on one team (but not one on the other), all he has to do is sit in the base and pick off the opponents, who now cannot escape due to reduced speed.

Think also about clan matches. Clan matches involve teamwork already. FC quickness becomes more important in these matches. Think about the order of events. 3 players descend on the enemy base, kill the defenders, and take the flag. They then move across the map as a group, but they are slowed by the nerfed fc. In the meantime, the enemy respawns and races across the map to your base, where they arrive before the fc because his movement is slowed. They then either grab the flag, forcing another confrontation, or lay a trap in the base. As it is, the reward for breaking the defense is a quick cap. With the new system, you have to break the defense, clear the midfield, and hold on defense. What this will result in is that the better dm players will win by larger margins.

Overall, this system will reduce scoring, but it will make the margin of victory larger. I don't think that will achieve the objective of "encouraging teamwork." Remember, public matches are not supposed to be fair or balanced. They never will be. Players who have played fps's all of their lives and nexuiz for 4 years will be pitted against players who downloaded Nexuiz yesterday and it's the first fps they've ever played. It won't be fair. We need to think about high end play.

Someone made a point about us being "spoiled" with the quickness of the game. But this is precisely the point: we all came to Nexuiz, saw the game as it was, and we liked what we saw. That is why we stayed. WE DO NOT NEED TO CHANGE WHAT WE LIKE ABOUT THE GAME. Nexuiz is all about speed. Let it be.




Note about scoring: it's called "capture the flag." Let's think about that. (ie., it's not "capture the frag.")

Do what you want or need with scoring, but for DO NOT touch a god damn speed. It is annoying and very, very upsetting.

Voted for option #3, but it needs clarification. 0.25pt should be awarded for flag return.

OK.

Best wishes,
[M]*alpha

M_ wrote:The other thing that I find is that it really does nothing. Red Dragon still caps faster than everyone else, but slightly slower than he does with regular fc physics. But when a good nexer is on one team (but not one on the other), all he has to do is sit in the base and pick off the opponents, who now cannot escape due to reduced speed.

Well, if it does nothing then there's no reason not to keep it
Am I right? Gimme a pound, my dog!

I'll point out something else that I just noticed today. One person with a machinegun can now defend the flag. Since there is no speed to get away its very easy for a single defender to just pick you off. Probably also goes for crylink.

Sepelio wrote:I'll point out something else that I just noticed today. One person with a machinegun can now defend the flag. Since there is no speed to get away its very easy for a single defender to just pick you off. Probably also goes for crylink.

You're so wrong about that. It all depends on how skilled that person is and the map. If a skilled attacker comes, that one guy with machine gun won't do anything. If you play on a map that you cannot laser/rocket yourself over the entire map from base to base, with other words if you play a map with curves and corners, that machine gun guy also won't have an easy time.

People complained before on the GW and FW maps about people with Nex'es and people with machine guns and that the flag carrier never got away (this was without the reduction), however, now people have a new thing to complain about. So instead of actually complaining about the maps now, they turn to the reduction. That's really what's going on here, nothing more.

If maps had problems even before the reduction, do NOT take these maps as examples to take away the reduction. The old problems are still there.

Just to add, such arguments such as you are noob are not valid because we all are noobs in comparison to kojak, bundy, red dragon. So if anyone arguments his opinion with it, please disregard it.

I haven't still voted. Basically I don't like this fc slow thing, coz the fc already have the whole enemy team against him, and in this way it's also worse for him to cap.

Instead of slowing fc, I thought to a differnt system.
I guessed this idea: the points given to one player that capture the flag more times will be gradually reduced:

example:
first cap for me: 20 points,
second cap for me: 10 points,
third cap and next ones for me: 5 points.

This system works for each player individually.
Now the points I take for capping are the same that I take for retrieving the flag. It's better that now I defend letting other team mates to cap. Another player of my team can try to capture the flag giving to our team 20 points.

Or I can rather help another player to cap going with him to the to other base, and protecting him while he's escaping with the flag. It's called team attack. Also the boosting tecnique (that I like so much) can be used to give more speed to fc, helping players that can't go very fast.

Other kind of scoring system can be used ofc, 20, 10, 5, 3 why not?.
It should be tried to find the best values. I guess it works to balance games: no more 130 points made by one player, more than half points needed to win, no more unbalnced games will end quickly. And it's also good to envolve all players of the team, good ones and less good ones.

What do u all think about this idea? Can it be better?

PS: the scores at the end of the game can be recalculated to give the "real" points to players. Not an important thing to the system.

terencehill wrote:I haven't still voted. Basically I don't like this fc slow thing, coz the fc already have the whole enemy team against him, and in this way it's also worse for him to cap.

Instead of slowing fc, I thought to a differnt system.
I guessed this idea: the points given to one player that capture the flag more times will be gradually reduced:

example:
first cap for me: 20 points,
second cap for me: 10 points,
third cap and next ones for me: 5 points.

This system works for each player individually.
Now the points I take for capping are the same that I take for retrieving the flag. It's better that now I defend letting other team mates to cap. Another player of my team can try to capture the flag giving to our team 20 points.

Or I can rather help another player to cap going with him to the to other base, and protecting him while he's escaping with the flag. It's called team attack. Also the boosting tecnique (that I like so much) can be used to give more speed to fc, helping players that can't go very fast.

Other kind of scoring system can be used ofc, 20, 10, 5, 3 why not?.
It should be tried to find the best values. I guess it works to balance games: no more 130 points made by one player, more than half points needed to win, no more unbalnced games will end quickly. And it's also good to envolve all players of the team, good ones and less good ones.

What do u all think about this idea? Can it be better?

PS: the scores at the end of the game can be recalculated to give the "real" points to players. Not an important thing to the system.

lollool

1. go in
2. get flag, gtfo fast
3. blow your shit up near flag. VIRGINS!
4. someone other picks it up and "scores". PROFIT!

TH, don't be a noob, vote #3.

ai wrote:People complained before on the GW and FW maps about people with Nex'es and people with machine guns and that the flag carrier never got away (this was without the reduction), however, now people have a new thing to complain about. So instead of actually complaining about the maps now, they turn to the reduction. That's really what's going on here, nothing more.

If maps had problems even before the reduction, do NOT take these maps as examples to take away the reduction. The old problems are still there.

Uh...

This isn't just finding another thing to complain about. This is an introduced problem. There are ways to get out at greatwall -- even though it's a camper friendly map. This introduces the problem that it becomes much less likely that you will escape. The old problems are not just there, they are exacerbated by this change. It needs to not happen.

None of the above.

I suggest another solution: encouraging players to defend and discouraging players from trying to capture flags alone by adequate changes to the scoring systems.
As [-z-] noted before, we should treat the root of the problem, not its symptoms, that is, players own behaviour.

First I would like to make something absolutely clear: there is no one fast FC who can break a good coordinated defence. Even one good player on defence that uses the terrain and a variety of weapons to his advantage can put down any flag carrier. Your movements as a FC are always predicted, there is one place you want to reach and one general direction you would be heading.

I play virtually (literally?) all my games on CTF servers, the public kind. No fuzzy warm cooperation there like on the private servers. Most players, and everyone at some time of the game, are out for the highest personal score. This human weakness is ougt to be manipulated. Perhaps I am wrong or everyone else is blind, but the current scoring system is in need of a change. Give more cookies to players who guard the flag, either by retrieving the flag or killing the flag carrier.

Today it would still be beneficial to a caper to miss 3 caps but score one: 20 > 15.
All you have to do is instill fear into the puny little minds of cappers - take away from them points AND grant the FC hunter a nice fat bonus (today they are score monks, secluded from the higher ranks of their team score chart).

I would like to see a scoring system along this lines:
Flag capture = 20 points.
Flag retrieval = 10 points.
Flag loss = -5 points.

That way a fast capper would think twice before going in to a second run all alone.
Losing 5 personal points + 10 team points( the retrieving team gain is the attacking team loss) is a great enough of a punishment. Can you imagine the reaction of a team if one of its members lost 30 team points cause he was out for a lone-wolf ego boost?
Losing 10 personal points is discouraging on itself.

There could be different models such as FC=20,FR=20 without flag loss, as long as the main product of the scoring system change is to discourage FC from going at it alone and encouraging team defence.

Also, I suggest that end of the match, instead of the meaningless "the winner is X", the best defenders and capers should be crowned.


Regarding the solution of castrating the playability of the game by means of limiting flag carrier speed: its horrible. I have nothing to add here because those who wrote before me made the case clear (IMHO anyway). But what I would like to do is quote the beginning of one of my favorite short stories by Kurt Vonnegut:

"THE YEAR WAS 2081, and everybody was finally equal. They weren’t only equal before God and the law. They were equal every which way. Nobody was smarter than anybody else. Nobody was better looking than anybody else. Nobody was stronger or quicker than anybody else. All this equality was due to the 211th, 212th, and 213th Amendments to the Constitution, and to the unceasing vigilance of agents of the United States Handicapper General."

And I would object. How many times your team was able to cap last time we played with new speed?
Exactly 1 time. We capped 0 times.

Increasing score for defense is not good as you've already seen that. And it does not make people play as team. And there won't be any teamplay in public CTF ever. Being a long time player you could already realize that. Sorry, if my informality offends you but making players play teams in public is impossible. That's why this question arose. But neither new scoring system, nor speed reduce will make people play in teams.

I don't understand what's wrong with you people. Can't you see that first time player is incapable playing in team even if you force him with score systems or lower speed. You need to play several months, develop some skills in order to be valuable. When you do that, you'll be looking at how to improve your game. This is when team play question arises. Public CTF is just grounds for new players to grow up, not some sort of competition arena where you expect eye for an eye fights.

Look at other FPS'es and you'll see that too.

This poll was made for practically impossible conditions and it's goal is to find which scoring mode is more suitable one as default - IDEALLY. Not that it will work on public. I would rephrase it: which scoring system should be used on CTF tourney.

EDIT: quote is very nice.

I still don't really understand this whole thing about what encourages teamplay the most...
Imho all those, who comment here do know really well, that there's no need to encourage teamplay, because this is a team-based game mode, so it was ment to be played AS A TEAM.
FFS, this is ridiculous! All these ideas like slowing down flag carriers, adding less score for a capture, adding more score for a return makes me feel that Nexuiz is trying to be an idiot safe game, a game that everyone can play well, no matter if he understands the rules or not.
Imho it's not our rules are the bad, but the people who play it. I mean I don't need rules to tell me and my teammates how to play a team game, but I play like I UNDERSTAND what team-play means, and I can assume my team mates understand too.
I totally hate this flag-carrier slowing down idea. FFS again, Nexuiz is a DAMN FAST GAME, WITH PSYSICS THAT SUPPORT AND ENCOURAGE FAAT MOVEMENT!
I don't think that the worst problem is with the rules or the players, but the MAPS. Although they are my "children", and it feels good that Face, and GWR are the most played and loved CTF maps, but they are just not good for Nexuiz, they are too much opened, and they haven't turned out the way they were ment to be.
Where's Controlfactor, Fortress Resurrection (cbctf4), mIKEctf2, tznex03? I rarely see them played.
Anyway, in any case, the flag carrier speed gets reduced in the next version, that'll be the last time I've created a map or played CTF in Nexuiz.

oh, so I've voted: no FC speed reduce, no frags. Simple, classical USE FOR F*CKING MIND CTF

Long*Shot wrote:None of the above.
Today it would still be beneficial to a caper to miss 3 caps but score one: 20 > 15.
All you have to do is instill fear into the puny little minds of cappers - take away from them points AND grant the FC hunter a nice fat bonus (today they are score monks, secluded from the higher ranks of their team score chart).

I would like to see a scoring system along this lines:
Flag capture = 20 points.
Flag retrieval = 10 points.
Flag loss = -5 points.

math fail.

given your system, if only 1 cap attempt of 4 succeeds, the score would be:

30 vs 5

why?

defense gets 3 * retrieval = 30
offense gets 1 cap = 20 - 3*(-5) failures = 5

and the epic camping begins.

math fail.

given your system, if only 1 cap attempt of 4 succeeds, the score would be:

30 vs 5

why?

defense gets 3 * retrieval = 30
offense gets 1 cap = 20 - 3*(-5) failures = 5

and the epic camping begins.

Duh, that's the whole point: to encourage the team to attack together and defence together. A smart team (on a balanced game) wouldn't get to the point where they only score 1 out of 4, and if they did, they would be quick to change their strategy.
And if each team played well, cooperating on the defence as well as offence, and still only got 1 out of 4 - then so be it. What it means is that the better team is winning.
But it wouldn't be a dull game, it would be an exacting game when each team gave its best effort.

And alpha, seriously, you are one of those easy get easy go (only) FC and I have seen you multiple times complaining about camping when you faced good close-range defence .

Common, whats next? Misio will be charging forth claiming that ALL suggested changes are bad? Sorry, but some player's opinions should be taken with a grain of salt.

Nexuiz public CTF is broken. I know so many old timers who got sick of it and I barely see them on the servers now. Something has to be done, if you think that what I suggest is a bad idea then please tell us how your idea is better, cause there is no perfect solution.

M_ wrote:This introduces the problem that it becomes much less likely that you will escape. The old problems are not just there, they are exacerbated by this change. It needs to not happen.

The sole purpose of slowing down the FC is to make it harder to escape. Then using this argument against this is exactly like saying: "Hey don't put in any curry there, it will taste curry!" - "Oi, the whole point of me putting curry in here IS to make it taste like curry."

With other words people are saying: "Hey, don't reduce the boost it will slow down the flag carrier." - "Oi, the whole point of the reduce IS to slow down the flag carrier."
Not a valid argument

Anyway, I think I'm out of this discussion, I've said all mine and if I say any more I will just be repeating myself. You have my stance: Cap only, reduce the FC.

- ai out

Alien wrote:And I would object. How many times your team was able to cap last time we played with new speed?
Exactly 1 time. We capped 0 times.

I remember that game. It was slow and dull.
dull, dull, dull. and long.
I didnt see any spectacular team cooperation, what I saw was senseless rushes into the enemy base. The FCs didnt get "punished" for losing flags, so they would keep at it, again and again and again. Until my team "won".

Increasing score for defense is not good as you've already seen that. And it does not make people play as team.

Sorry, I havent seen that, was there a demo that I missed?
I truly would like to see this model, at least on trial.
Its important to note that its not only about more defence points, its about punishing FC for disregarding team play.

And there won't be any teamplay in public CTF ever. Being a long time player you could already realize that.

I disagree, I have played some games with superb teamplay on public CTF. In fact, I would go as far as to say that its enough that you have 2 players who play as a team and the game is done and the winning team known before hand. One player, the one of defence, usually sacrifices his score for the better good of the team. More people would do that if they didnt have to sacrifice anything, if they would actually gain from it.

Can't you see that first time player is incapable playing in team even if you force him with score systems or lower speed.

I accept your position and that is why I think that a new scoring system should be tested. The correctness of your idea is based upon the ratio of new players to veteran players. From my experience on Green's and Lazy Dog CTF servers usually there arent more then 1-2 totally new players on each team. That being said, its enough if even 2-3 players "respect" and consider the new scoring system for a good challenging game to arise.

alpha wrote:

terencehill wrote:I haven't still voted. Basically I don't like this fc slow thing, coz the fc already have the whole enemy team against him, and in this way it's also worse for him to cap.

Instead of slowing fc, I thought to a differnt system.
I guessed this idea: the points given to one player that capture the flag more times will be gradually reduced:

example:
first cap for me: 20 points,
second cap for me: 10 points,
third cap and next ones for me: 5 points.

This system works for each player individually.
Now the points I take for capping are the same that I take for retrieving the flag. It's better that now I defend letting other team mates to cap. Another player of my team can try to capture the flag giving to our team 20 points.

Or I can rather help another player to cap going with him to the to other base, and protecting him while he's escaping with the flag. It's called team attack. Also the boosting tecnique (that I like so much) can be used to give more speed to fc, helping players that can't go very fast.

Other kind of scoring system can be used ofc, 20, 10, 5, 3 why not?.
It should be tried to find the best values. I guess it works to balance games: no more 130 points made by one player, more than half points needed to win, no more unbalnced games will end quickly. And it's also good to envolve all players of the team, good ones and less good ones.

What do u all think about this idea? Can it be better?

PS: the scores at the end of the game can be recalculated to give the "real" points to players. Not an important thing to the system.

lollool

1. go in
2. get flag, gtfo fast
3. blow your shit up near flag. VIRGINS!
4. someone other picks it up and "scores". PROFIT!

TH, don't be a noob, vote #3.

OK.
Then let's do in this way:
first cap for me: 20 points,
I fail capping and another one picks the flag up and cap: 10 points,
second cap for me: 5 points.

Still the same system if u don't lose the flag:
first cap for me: 20 points,
second cap for me: 10 points,
third cap and next ones for me: 5 points.

Now the system is perfect Alpha

Long*Shot wrote:
And alpha, seriously, you are one of those easy get easy go (only) FC and I have seen you multiple times complaining about camping when you faced good close-range defence .

Funny joke