EDIT:

As the actual VALUES of the actions are open, I'll post a list of the actions rewarded for each poll option.



Frags And Points - Full Flag Carrier Speed (like 2.42)

First of all, no speed reduction.

Secondly, the following actions count:
- Killing enemy: +1
- Killing team mate, or yourself: -1
- (POSSIBLY) Taking flag: to be decided (currently +1)
- (POSSIBLY) Taking flag from floor (currently +1, may be variable depending on time)
- Capturing flag: to be decided (currently +20)
- (POSSIBLY) Killing flag carrier (currently +1)
- (POSSIBLY) Dropping flag: to be decided (may depend on death type)
- (POSSIBLY) Dropping flag and it gets returned: to be decided
- Returning flag: to be decided (currently +5, may depend on whether you had shot the FC or not)

The usual captures / points ratio should be in the current range of 30, to make fraglimit behave the same as before a change.



Just Points, No Frags - Full Flag Carrier Speed (i.e. only actions happening around the flag count, like caps, returns, carrier kills)

First of all, no speed reduction.

Secondly, the following actions count:
- (POSSIBLY) Taking flag: to be decided (currently +1)
- (POSSIBLY) Taking flag from floor (currently +1, may be variable depending on time)
- Capturing flag: to be decided (currently +20)
- (POSSIBLY) Killing flag carrier (currently +1)
- (POSSIBLY) Dropping flag: to be decided (may depend on death type)
- (POSSIBLY) Dropping flag and it gets returned: to be decided
- Returning flag: to be decided (currently +5, may depend on whether you had shot the FC or not)



Captures Only - Reduced Flag Carrier Speed

First of all, flag carrier speed is reduced by SOME means (not decided yet).

Secondly, the following actions count:
- Capturing flag: +1
- NOTHING ELSE. No returns, no frags, no nothing.








Reduced flag carrier speed means flag carriers can only use 70% of the normal force from self damage, e.g. laser or rocket jumping. Walking/jumping speed stays the same, as that would change gameplay too much for him. The use of this is to make single capture runs less likely to succeed, and to enforce a bit of teamplay instead. Mainly meant to make captures-only scoring viable without giving persistent but suicidal kamikaze capture runners too much of an advantage (2.4.2's scoring system accounts for this by awarding points for returning flags, so an unsuccessful run harms your team - which can not be the case with captures-only scoring).

Please state your opinion.

Adding further events like points for defending a flag carrier or the base are out of scope, that would need changes to all existing maps (to set a range of protection, and a brush to define where the base is).

Post your arguments and fight below. Vote above.




LIST OF MISCLICKS:
+1 for Captures Only - Reduced Flag Carrier Speed ONLY
-1 for Just Points, No Frags - Full Flag Carrier Speed OR Captures Only - Reduced Flag Carrier Speed

divVerent wrote:Adding further events like points for defending a flag carrier or the base are out of scope, that would need changes to all existing maps (to set a range of protection, and a brush to define where the base is).

And what about points for killing FC and picking dropped flag?

These are already there and work the same way independent from location.

I support the idea of the slowed down flag carriers.
I do also think that captures should count, since this is a very common system used for the CTF game mode in many other FPSs such as UT or Quake. I know this doesn't mean Nexuiz should have to copy it, but it makes sense for me.

Thus I voted for "Reduced flag carrier speed, captures only count".

GreEn`mArine wrote:I support the idea of the slowed down flag carriers.

did you already play with it?

What about setting max speed limit for a fc? So that rocket boosting wouldn't help to achieve supersonic speeds. If it's not an option, I'll vote later after reading other people opinions cause I neither like slow fc and spamming/camping defenders nor selfish solo plays.

I think that Flags should count but points should be shown. In the event of a tie, it should be broken by points.

I'd like the following attributes in the scoreboard:

flags caps, flag drops, flag carrier kills, flag returns, kills, deaths

I don't mind the slower flag carrier but I think it's a stupid way to force teamwork. The problem lies within the mentality of the players. I don't believe there is enough incentive for defense, especially when you only show flag caps and points.

For public servers, I simply find this frustrating. Not everyone is a flag carrier and this scoring system makes them believe they have to be. Look at professional sports. Not everyone is a forward but they are rewarded based on the position they play. I believe good team work in Nexuiz is built off the 3 field positions of defense, midfield and offense combined with communication.


Again, I think Nexuiz should have three config "flavors" with settings tweaked for beginners, intermediate players and pros. Trying to make everyone happy with the same default settings makes it harder for new players and less interesting for hardcore ones.

Alien wrote:What about setting max speed limit for a fc? So that rocket boosting wouldn't help to achieve supersonic speeds.

Example right here, I should be punished for thinking fast enough to rocket a wall to evade an enemy? I think that's bullshit. My whole attraction to this game was based on the ability to continually surpass my understanding of the physics. People should not be punished for their understand and challenge the physics of the game, this discourages creativity.

"This game is too hard, make it easier for me."

It's only hard because it's easy. Linking all these things together is based on a player's ability to see the bigger picture. Rather than focusing on hand to hand combat, set item based goals for yourself. I think green put it best when he said, "Don't fight every battle".

You got me wrong AGAIN! We are talking about fc ONLY. You can still use your physics knowledge whenever you want, but you can't go at insane speed when FLAG CARRYING. Maybe players should just simply drop the flag if their speed goes over max allowed (similarly to using portal in UT).

What you've wrote above is currently implemented (scoreboard thing) and WILL stay (does not matter which scoring system), except the tie thing, which might be another option to choose from.

Alien wrote:You got me wrong AGAIN! We are talking about fc ONLY.

What better time to evade the enemy then when carrying their flag?

I don't think it's fair an invisible force stop the flag carrier from exceeding a certain speed just to make him easier to catch. We need to focus more on defense, midfield and communication.

If everyone's constantly running forward, it's no wonder we have these problems.

These new scoring systems are treating a symptom, not the disease.

for scoring, i don't think we should only score captures. i think defense and turtling should be a valid strategy. i don't like it personally, but i don't think teams should be discouraged from it just by our mechanism of keeping score.

as for the flag carrier force reduction, i personally dislike it. i think it fails as a catalyst for teamwork. it notably really hurts flow on some maps. also, if i spend 99% of my time not carrying flag, i'm used to those mechanics. the clunkiness of being slowed during the most important yet more infrequent part of the game is frustrating.

additionally, a slowed fc is really a sitting duck. any good retriever will be much more likely to eliminate a 30% slower opponent even if of equal skill. skilled players will cut through less skilled fcs like butter. this can't be offset with constant escorts; it's too easy and quick to come in and take out an fc if you know where your target is no matter how many people cover them. also, there often isn't enough people around to have a fc escort constantly available. i also don't want someone covering me constantly if i have flag; the risk of explosive detonation or them blocking my path, taking my pickups, etc, decreases the efficacy of the increased firepower they give to the point where they'd be more useful accomplishing another objective..

My initial reaction to the idea of reducing the flag carrier's speed was pretty much the same as z's, except that it was on a server, unformulated, and pissed esteel off

I've thought about it a bit more and I just don't know what would be best. You can easily argue that the massive flag is what slows the carrier down (as I was quite hostile to the idea of some magical force suddenly appearing in order to impose teamwork) and it MIGHT have a positive impact on teamplay. It's not uncommon for other games to limit the flag carrier's movement (teleporters, etc) or weapon usage, so it's not that strange an idea.

The following really should be considered though:
a) The people who are actually capable of playing as a team already do when in a team with others of the same capability.

b) CTF teams often lose by wide margins due to a lack of defence... a clear example that the need for teamwork does not lead to it. Altering game physics (characteristic ones... speed is one of the main traits of Nexuiz imo) in order to try to force teamwork will not work and will lead to even greater frustration for those who are already annoyed at the utter strategic incompetence of many people on the ctf servers. People have no problem running past a flag carrier who is clearly close to dying with several enemies behind him.

If you want to go down the path of making Nexuiz a strategic fps game, you may as well just fork it because you will end up with a considerably different product if you want something that everyone can just pick up and play that way. That doesn't mean "fuck trying to improve ctf", just that trying to improve ctf shouldn't alter the fundamental characteristics of the game itself. There is no way to please everyone, and I agree that CTF is a bit shit, but that's because of the people playing it more than anything else.



Also, to the devs: I truly appreciate your efforts to improve the game and thank you for them. I apologize if my initial reactions to some of your decisions and suggestions is more heated or negative than it should be. At the same time, even with the acknowledgement that dealing with criticism of certain changes over and over again can be tiresome, I would hope that it could be taken for what it is and not as a criticism of your efforts.

I like frags counting.

I'm conflicted as to reduced speed.

I basically agree with Xeno.

Nerfing the ability of flag runners just to make up for the general incompetence of defenders is not the way to solve things.

[-z-] wrote:I think that Flags should count but points should be shown. In the event of a tie, it should be broken by points.

I'd like the following attributes in the scoreboard:

flags caps, flag drops, flag carrier kills, flag returns, kills, deaths

I don't mind the slower flag carrier but I think it's a stupid way to force teamwork. The problem lies within the mentality of the players. I don't believe there is enough incentive for defense, especially when you only show flag caps and points.

For public servers, I simply find this frustrating. Not everyone is a flag carrier and this scoring system makes them believe they have to be. Look at professional sports. Not everyone is a forward but they are rewarded based on the position they play. I believe good team work in Nexuiz is built off the 3 field positions of defense, midfield and offense combined with communication.


Again, I think Nexuiz should have three config "flavors" with settings tweaked for beginners, intermediate players and pros. Trying to make everyone happy with the same default settings makes it harder for new players and less interesting for hardcore ones.

Alien wrote:What about setting max speed limit for a fc? So that rocket boosting wouldn't help to achieve supersonic speeds.

Example right here, I should be punished for thinking fast enough to rocket a wall to evade an enemy? I think that's bullshit. My whole attraction to this game was based on the ability to continually surpass my understanding of the physics. People should not be punished for their understand and challenge the physics of the game, this discourages creativity.

"This game is too hard, make it easier for me."

It's only hard because it's easy. Linking all these things together is based on a player's ability to see the bigger picture. Rather than focusing on hand to hand combat, set item based goals for yourself. I think green put it best when he said, "Don't fight every battle".

Except for flag drops, everything already is in the scoreboard. I'll add flag drops, though.

Your comparison to sports is bad. In soccer, only goals count too. Yet still people try to play as a team sometimes

As for adding a max player speed - IMHO a bad idea, it breaks gameplay much more than the FC speed reduction.

So basically, the options all have disadvantages. Let me name them:

Frags count:
How to abuse it is easy: campers get points for just fragging everyone. A game can be decided by that alone. Is camping a strategy we want to reward? I doubt it.
This mode IMHO works best with full carrier speed, as failed capture attempts are already punished by the scoring. There needs to be no extra nerfing there.

Frags do not count, other stuff still counts as points:
Still means you can win a match by just defending and never capturing. The strategy to "abuse" this is to block all escape routes, and wait till an enemy gets your flag, and only THEN kill him and return the flag (which gains 5 points). However, the strategy of a clever enemy is then to only take the flag if some team mate secured an escape route, which IMHO fixes this issue.
This mode IMHO works best with full carrier speed, as failed capture attempts are already punished by the scoring. There needs to be no extra nerfing there.

Captures only count:
Common abuse of this scoring is capturing by brute force: attackers run into the enemy base alone 100 times, until they finally manage to capture. There is nothing their team loses if they fail, so there is no reason to NOT take the enemy flag. And with 100 attempts, you are likely to succeed 2 or 3 times, which can decide the match.
The flag carrier speed reduction is meant to fix the issues with this scoring mode, by making these non-teamplay capture attempts less likely to succeed.

My server now runs with full flag carrier speed, but "Frags do not count, other stuff still counts as points" scoring. I suppose that's the mode where teamplay-harming strategies are rewarded least.

I just noticed a drops column is a waste of space. The equation "drops = pickups - caps" always holds

Somehow slowing down the flag carrier would help I think. Running along with a flag generally would slow you down. What about stopping laser jumping with the flag? That would put it somewhere in line with UT where you're not able to use the teleporter whilst carrying the flag or else you drop the flag.

without laserjumping its impossible to get the flag and get out of the base if they have 2 defenders .. for example greatwall reloaded , tell me how to get out it was hard with full speed but now you can not even cross the wall most of the time. and facing worlds turned into a camping game now , you get out of the base and *splash* you are dead new players will give up fast if they are not able to capture the flag imo. on greens server everybody except 1 person ( that was Own Age) said its bad ! just play there and try it our yourself. i will look out for a good example that you are too slow.

short version : Do NOT change anything with speed.

i agree with ALIEN. Limiting the Flag carriers top speed would be nice. Limiting the overall push of the FC as opposed will disable you reaching spots that were 1 jump without flag but unreachable with flag.. and the problem is NOT the single jumps, but the cumulative speed of some good players.

who talked defense?
there is really not much time for defense when completed flag capture times can be as low as 3-9 SECONDS.

i would prefer limited top speed over reduced push for the flag carrier, but i go with whatever slows down the flag carrier.

(btw: with that low numbers the Vote is far from being statistically significant.
how long ddid this have been active? i dont even remember spotting it before..)

Yes, completing stopping laserjumping is probably bad. Impossible to get out then... that's why it is just reduced to 70%.

Mirio wrote:without laserjumping its impossible to get the flag and get out of the base if they have 2 defenders .. for example greatwall reloaded , tell me how to get out it was hard with full speed but now you can not even cross the wall most of the time. and facing worlds turned into a camping game now

I don't consider Greatwall Reloaded or Facing Worlds balanced maps now anyway. Just because you can laserjump and jumpboost in Nexuiz, doesn't mean you should have to all of the time. It's the same with any game, just because a certain part of gameplay is possible does not mean it's a good idea for the entire game to work around it.

That in itself scares new players off as they can't hope to move around like some more experienced players. Facing Worlds just turns in to a joke when you have a team with two very experienced players laser jumping back and forth as a relay while a couple of not so good players on their team just camp at the top of each tower building up their personal scores and making the game no fun for the other side who just see the good players fly back and forth in between being nex'd by some camper. I would much rather see a UT2003 style Facing Worlds. The space between the bases is much bigger, a pyramid sits in the way preventing sniping from base to base and a set of jump pads means you can get around fast enough.

UT has the redeemer but a map dominated by the redeemer would not be much fun. HL2 has physics puzzles, that's OK in moderation, in bits where they put lots of physics puzzles together, it stopped being fun. Doom 3 has imps jumping out from behind panels. Scary on occasion, strangely predictable and boring in the maps where there's an imp behind a panel on every corridor.

Mirio wrote: i will look out for a good example that you are too slow.

ok here we go.
edit: oops without url its stupid : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uSIUnfLpSE
i think with normal speed he would capture much easier ( i just missed that stupid flag and him ) . i'm pretty behind him and he boosts himself at the entry and in the base with the laser but we are at the flag at the same time. and its Sepelio so its not a noob. theres something wrong IMO.
ok lets see other opinions

Ed wrote:Somehow slowing down the flag carrier would help I think. Running along with a flag generally would slow you down. What about stopping laser jumping with the flag? That would put it somewhere in line with UT where you're not able to use the teleporter whilst carrying the flag or else you drop the flag.

I think only you, I and Morphed think like this otherwise all other people would absolutely hate it and kill any living being after a game online is over.

My opinion is exactly the same as Green Marines above.
I want caps only count and speed reduction. As I've been saying a lot, a CTF game is not about speed and how fast you can cap a flag, it's about teamplay and it should be nearly impossibly for a lone CTF runner to cap. What's the point of CTF without teamplay? Then at least name this 'mode' to something else and create a real old-school CTF mode.
Actually, if keeping the speed for the FC that alone works counter the whole idea of teamplay, as none would be needed in order to capture a flag. We've had this system for a while, and I haven't seen the teamplay increase that much. So why not try a change and see where that leads?
Think about it, when you guys attack and try to take the flag, do you even have a second thought about other teammates that back you up or do you just take the flag and rocket/laser yourself away from there and hope no one hits you with a Nex? Of how many runs do you actually think/know that there is someone who could cover you? My guess would be at most 1/10 runs.
An old player, OC, used to just go into enemy's base and try to take the flag without the support of teammates whatsoever. He just went for luck, if a good defender was there he wouldn't be able to score too much, but without any he scored time after time after time. This is exactly the thing I don't want to be possible in CTF without at least teamplay.

The thing is, people got spoiled with the 'frags count' and speed in the CTF mode and now that something new is introduced they are against it. It's like feeding children icecream and chips, then after a few years when you try to make them eat healthy food such as soup with vegetables and stuff they flat out refuse it, starts to scream kick and poop.
With frags counting people don't have to do too much to win a game. I also dislike the flag return point, as even I abuse it many times online just cause I'm too lazy to go to the enemies base and take the flag.
Defense is rewarding enough if the other team doesn't get any caps or very few. That's enough for me, if the mode was called DTF (Defend the Flag) then perhaps it would be sensible to win by defending.

EDIT: Any maps where you can Nex into the other teams base as a BAD map. That's just how it goes, of course people will complain about campers and have a hard time getting out of the base then. It's sooo obvious.

Mirio wrote:without laserjumping its impossible to get the flag and get out of the base if they have 2 defenders .. for example greatwall reloaded , tell me how to get out it was hard with full speed but now you can not even cross the wall most of the time. and facing worlds turned into a camping game now , you get out of the base and *splash* you are dead new players will give up fast if they are not able to capture the flag imo. on greens server everybody except 1 person ( that was Own Age) said its bad ! just play there and try it our yourself. i will look out for a good example that you are too slow.

short version : Do NOT change anything with speed.

IMHO that's exactly why this reduced boosts feature should be default, first off you are saying you are going in alone and straight for the flag ignoring the defense, that is the exact reason I like the reduced boost, you can't just go into a base where there is defense and hope to get out of it without killing or at least preventing those guys from getting in your way. This is the perfect example of a kamikaze capper. Also it seems own-age wasn't the only one that actually finds this idea good, most of the people I actually consider good and respect as truly awesome players do not find this change as a bad one but as a strategic one.

Now I went with the reduced speed and points only count, as the current state of CTF is absolutely zero, as in UT where you can't teleport with the flag yet people still manage to cap even with the other players being at least three times faster than them and able to access areas where you can't get without dropping the flag. However and overall speed limit of the FC may work too, holding that it will stop the idea of being able to win the match alone as long as your team stops the other from getting the flag, because even with the FC limit on there have been a lot of caps done on all the servers that supported it and not once did a game end without a cap, even tough it is possible of winning it. This isn't a feature to FORCE teamplay, it is a feature to encourage it, if some players believe teamplay is non-existent and that others won't work as a team I suggest they at least try to act as backups to the other players, if the others won't back you up because of inexperience how about the good players try to at least act as a team, I've left and keep doing lots of stuff with other people even with them not knowing it or just seeing it like let them pick the flag and try to stop defend/boost them, leave armor/mega health to people that need it more than me even if i just have 100/0. This isn't a problem about the newbies it is a problem about experienced players, that even tough can conjure a strategy refuse to do so because they can just cap/camp(and get lots of frags) and ignore persistent problems with the CTF game.

I don't know if you guys tried to play UT with flags teleporting along with the player, but the current state of the CTF in Nexuiz is just like that, a simple learn the route and teleport/boost like crazy while hoping nobody good or newbie kills you, and I seriously fail to see the fun of a team game like that.

EDIT:

ai wrote:people got spoiled with the 'frags count' and speed in the CTF mode and now that something new is introduced they are against it.

^ Exactly what I was preparing to edit my post for Thank you ai.

divVerent wrote:Your comparison to sports is bad. In soccer, only goals count too. Yet still people try to play as a team sometimes

You just misunderstood my comparison. Yes, only goals count as I believe only flags should but the player statistics are shown and compared to others who play the same position. This emphasizes the fact that the other positions are indeed important.


How does everyone feel about limiting the number of lives per match? Say 2 lives for every minute left in the game (to solve for late joiners). I think that's more than fair, I'd actually prefer less to emphasize the importance of life but I know the classic "ZOMG dying isn't always bad" lame ass argument is going to come up.

Maybe some more sound clips for doing good jobs on defense? Like "nice did yoda show you that?" but for returning a flag in x amount of seconds.

We need to brainstorm on how to provide more incentive for other other positions.

Limit the number of lives? I'm actually not sure if you're serious about this or not. But I just have one thing to say either way, this isn't CS.

i'll admit, while the reduction was on galt's, i've fallen back to more a support role. but if any of you've played with me on galt's before this, you've surely seen that i try to be competent in covering and escorting as allowed anyway. now, i don't mind covering people, i don't mind not getting the recognition on the scoreboard, but the reality is i've had to work harder on this system to receive less. and i also don't care if i'm not seen as pivotal when i know i'm the factor that changed the map's course. on pub games i personally focus on the team win...

but what bothers me is when i've gathered the resources (health/armor, weapons) to survive an onslaught in the enemy base, or i've entered enemy base and taken out a good number of defenders, only to find myself in a position where i can't capture cause no one else, either through incompetence or indifference, will help me. why would they when i've help put them at the top fo the scoreboard? at the public game level, few people care if their team wins or not. most only care about how they're perceived and how they do.

maybe my biggest gripe is for the past year i've enjoyed the experience of solo-running. sure, i've ruined other teams before, but i've been ruined by faster runners as well. i react to this the same way i react to the rocketboost crippling; you gave me wings and now you take them away. the people who are happy about speed reduction, well, i doubt they ever flew.

as to scoring, i'm open for changes, but i think after an interim people will see that the 'captures only' scoring will take away a lot from the current experience of nex ctf that is good. here's my concern with eliminating frags from the equation, without the reward of +1 on the scoreboard, what's the point of killing your opponents at non-critical times or junctures? i've seen newbies stop me while i've been on a mission just to shoot at me, and i'm thinking, i'm out here in the middle of no where and they're wasting their time on me. without frags counting, why have any skirmishes anywhere that aren't directly related to map control or in the flag room for attacking/defending? i see the two new proposed scoring methods, especially capture only, as essentially resulting in near constant blind respawn rushes on the bases.

regarding -z-'s idea for brainstorming ideas, the issue i've had with defending flag is the mad rush to return the flag after the carrier is killed. sometimes i understand it's absolutely time essential to get it back, but sometimes people are just assholes who take your +5. i understand the return part is as important as the kill, but it does serve to make sure the real defender is not often compensated fairly.

[-z-] wrote:How does everyone feel about limiting the number of lives per match? Say 2 lives for every minute left in the game (to solve for late joiners). I think that's more than fair, I'd actually prefer less to emphasize the importance of life but I know the classic "ZOMG dying isn't always bad" lame ass argument is going to come up.

For another game mode, maybe but having CTF this way sounds very limiting, I do approve of a Clan Arena mode tough, like one life per round and such but it would just break CTF, aka this would be a close thing to increasing the re-spawn delay to 30, and the whole team may be dead at one point and waiting for a long time to re-spawn is extremely annoying, I personally can't even stand a re-spawn delay of one second, although I like CA games, in normal situations where I know I should re-spawn as fast as possible it is unbearable.

As for sound more sound clips, how about the Q3 like medals, a more "rewarding" sprees display or such. At the moment the only thing that gives you an indication is the counter in the console, but having an actual text display right on or an icon to count defense, impressive or whatever else you can think of would actually increase the sense of accomplishment you receive from defending your flag or FC for example. A mix between UT sprees and Q3 medals perhaps would do the best job, with them custom tuned to Nexuiz of course.

EDIT: Inficio, while I admit, it may be annoying to gather lots and get to the base kill defenders and end up in a position where you can't cap(either because you don't have backup or you took too much damage) it never completely stops your chances of capping it may just be bad luck, either because nobody came with you or the defenders get one shot too many on you. In the second option taking the flag even with 100% boost is a bad idea, however if nobody came and you still have enough H/A you can of course still cap, it's just a matter of rethinking the way you go about it and timing your boosts better, you don't have a 100% success rate but you can and will be able to cap. IMO it's the defrag cappers that would win the most out of this change, they get better.

Now I've heard a lot of arguments about the idea of only "we" who have not gained wings liking this change, now I'm a good defrager, I can get a lot of speed and am usually very creative with my boosts and careful with their timing but I still like it, the 70% reduction only translates to a 80% or so speed reduction and can still be gained over time, if you are not based entirely on boosts it can get even higher to 90% reduction. This to me translates in even more experience to my movement, I've learned new, better ways to move around and better spots to jump because of this. So it's not just you people with wings that get hurt by it, my overall speed has decreased but not by the same completely crippling reduction some of the other guys have felt overall I've learned to get better by this change in ways I wouldn't even dream of before.

Now for the flag only change, while you may think just not killing the opponent might be a good idea, I see it as a very bad one, I as an attacker try to lay down as much damage as possible and take my kills with me every chance I get, depending on who, when and how fast I can get him, sure I do get some chances slip by or decide to ignore some opponents because of different reasons (Health, armor, ammo, weapons I may need) otherwise I find it ludicrous to just give the other team one more chance at taking my flag or getting in my teams way. While this change may be limiting to some areas of some maps in a both flags are safe situation, when one or both flags are taken, FC's and FC "hunters" will use those parts, also they can be used as relative safe passages from the middle of the fray, it would at the very least increase the tactical value of the map and each of it's areas.

inficio wrote:maybe my biggest gripe is for the past year i've enjoyed the experience of solo-running. sure, i've ruined other teams before, but i've been ruined by faster runners as well.

That's the whole point, no one should be able to cap all by themselves. That's not teamwork. And such games are ruined. I've experienced many games where the whole match was ruined because of fast flag carriers with no one being able to stop them, even me. A game like that isn't fun, ever. Possibly only for the capper.

inficio wrote:i react to this the same way i react to the rocketboost crippling; you gave me wings and now you take them away.

Giving you wings was never intentionally intended. It was something that just evolved out the the physics.

inficio wrote:the people who are happy about speed reduction, well, i doubt they ever flew.

I have flown a lot, I'm an experienced player, many other people that are supporting the reduction are too. Basically, the only people who are against is are those fast cappers who still want to cap fast. I don't even think the newbies will mind the reduction either, as they possibly aren't able to cap with or without the reduction (at least not by themselves). The reduction only makes it a bit easier for them to stop the carrier which possible strengthen their morals and a more fun experience for them.

And actually, experienced players are still able to cap, I still think it's easy to cap with the reduction (I don't care to cap fast, as long as I cap. That's why you never see me trying to break the sound barrier). It's mostly those who solely rely on speed who hates it.