ai wrote:Lool, looks like alpha is contradicting himself now or is consciously trying to sabotage Nexuiz with his bad ideas.
However alpha, you still haven't answered my question, and in fact, it is you who attack me. I have never attacked you, I just spoke the truth.
Here's the question I want answered by you: "So you're basically saying that there should not exist a weapon that does 140 or more damage in the entire game?"

"Contradicting" is a funny word. Evolution of thought is what other people call it. I have changed my mind about this issue after some month of 1v1 training and CTF'ing with players using the Nex.

To answer your question: Yes. There should not be a weapon in nexuiz that allows for kills in less 2 seconds (1 shot of nex + shot of (mg|shotgun --- both hitscan, hint, hint). This is precisely the reason why crylink was nerfed, and this is the reason why nex would be nerfed IF I will not get bullied/kickbanned by influential Nex players AND if large amount of newbie-to-medium players vote in this thread.

alpha:yes
ai:no
alphagod:no
alien:yes
komier:yes

EDITED BY ai.
Removed harsh language, false accusations and some totally irrelevant stuff that had nothing to do with anything here.

FFS, don't misinterpret what I posted. I am against nerfing nex without reducing reload time and adding another long range high damage weapon.

Alien wrote:FFS, don't misinterpret what I posted. I am against nerfing nex without reducing reload time and adding another long range high damage weapon.

wat

Actually, yes (to prevent spam killing).

make up your mind would you already

alpha:yes
ai:no
alphagod:no
alien:no
komier:yes

Actually, yes was a reply to ai (why weapons should not do more 140 dmg) not to your request. Take time to read before misinterpreting. Seems it is casual thing in this forum. It wasn'tm no either - i support splitting the nex into shock rifle and sniper weapon.

Alien wrote:Actually, yes was a reply to ai (why weapons should not do more 140 dmg) not to your request. Take time to read before misinterpreting. Seems it is casual thing in this forum. It wasn'tm no either - i support splitting the nex into shock rifle and sniper weapon.

fine, dont want MY vote - MAKE YOUR OWN. I remove your vote.

alpha:yes
ai:no
alphagod:no
komier:yes

Less than 1 second. You can hit with 140 on nex and then leave them with 10 hp, and a single mg bullet will take care of that. Really quick spawn frag.

Tell me if I'm wrong.

alpha wrote:fine, dont want MY vote - MAKE YOUR OWN. I remove your vote.

And I add it back

alpha:yes
ai:no
alphagod:no
alien:no
komier:yes
mrbougo: no


(yes, I know what you're going to say, and yes, I'm proud)

I'm still slightly unclear about this..... Are we adding another sniper rifle or what? The nex should stay at 140 damage, the slow refire rate is what makes it a difficult weapon to use and encourages the need to learn good weapon COMBOS. The nex alone is ineffective. As far as camper/sniper situations, it is yet another skill. A sniper, just as in real life situations, gives away his position by firing upon enemies. Once the sniper has taken someone out they can be countered. The only mode in which camping is cheating is in lms, and anti-camping health rot takes care of that. One thing I did test out once with good success is a .7 refire rate and 60 damage, but then again that would just create a single-beam crylink, wouldn't it? We should keep the 140 damage, because it is a reward for good aim skill and learning weapon combos. It's also an incentive to take out snipers on your own.

Yup, it's a quick spawn frag. But not instant kill as some people call it.
However, you can still have quick spawn frags even with other weapons.

Nex - Pretty much any other weapon
RL - Mortar
RL - Crylink
RL - HLAC
RL - RL
Electro Combo
Electro Combo - MG
Electro Combo - Crylink
Electro Combo - RL
Shotgun sec (if you're very close to him he will die after just one secondary aka 3 shots)

And so on and so on. Electro combo means spraying electro balls before someone spawns and shot them as soon as they do spawn.
What I believe is that people are referring to shooting someone with Nex from long range and then MG. Which in this case only has to do with the map design and how well positioned the players are.
If you're well positioned a spawn point and you're ready for the player to spawn, he's as good as dead.

Unless people wanna try to completely obliterate spawn frags, by making every weapon so weak that there's no way it would be possible, obliterating spawn frags will never happen.

Too big of a reward, but w/e.

alpha:yes
ai:no
alphagod:no
komier:yes
mrbougo: no
MaKR: no

ai wrote:Yup, it's a quick spawn frag. But not instant kill as some people call it.
However, you can still have quick spawn frags even with other weapons.

Nex - Pretty much any other weapon
RL - Mortar
RL - Crylink
RL - HLAC
RL - RL
Electro Combo
Electro Combo - MG
Electro Combo - Crylink
Electro Combo - RL
Shotgun sec (if you're very close to him he will die after just one secondary aka 3 shots)

And so on and so on. Electro combo means spraying electro balls before someone spawns and shot them as soon as they do spawn.
What I believe is that people are referring to shooting someone with Nex from long range and then MG. Which in this case only has to do with the map design and how well positioned the players are.
If you're well positioned a spawn point and you're ready for the player to spawn, he's as good as dead.

Unless people wanna try to completely obliterate spawn frags, by making every weapon so weak that there's no way it would be possible, obliterating spawn frags will never happen.

Not damage per shot/second. Damage per exposure. Electro combo takes TIME (preparation counts). RL shots take TIME and their efficiency decreases with increasing range.

No one skilled would ever risk to even ATTEMPT a shotgun spawnfrag, just because you have a shotgun at spawn and can retaliate. You should be embarrassed to even mention it!

So basically all your arguments are void.

We are talking nex spawnfrags which can not be avoided due to the fact that you have 10 hp and it is insufficient for laserjump.

EDITED BY ai:
Removed harsh language. Please be civil and use normal family friendly words. No need for such language.

my vote: keep nex like it is
i want to add to Makr's rant by saying , Also you have to remember some maps you can really stack armor and health and two nex shots wont do it . on greatwall i was able to survive four nex shots by one person thank god he ran out of ammo . yes i stacked the hell out of H/A because i was playing with a neophyte team . so i had around 60 health left and capped finally .

the nex is only as good as the player . the health it takes is the reward for skill . i say keep the nex like it is . let us adjust to the new wepons before making another change to an old favorite .

spawnfrags : it happens its gonna happen it will continue to happen . i dont have to have a nex to kill you upon re-entry . not saying i purposely hang out at spawns , infact i like to let ppl get a head start on spawning . three people could fighting on top of a spawn and there you are spawning and get 3 rockets in the face . it happens


Grasshopper: keep it

alpha:yes
ai:no
alphagod:no
komier:yes
mrbougo: no
MaKR: no
Grasshopper: no

Well, the nex IMO should be nerfed to maintain a more balanced system of weapons. Yes, all it takes is a nex shot and a primary mg shot to kill someone. I would say decrease the nex damage to about 100, and make the reload just a tiny bit faster. Why? It's easier to escape out of such a situation with 50 hp. Now, it would still be possible to nex/rl to kill someone when the spawn, but not as easy as nex and mg/shotgun/laser.

On a side note: Maybe we should drop the rocket damage down some and speed it up some, while keeping the reload time the same. It would be more balanced IMO.

PCLizard wrote:Well, the nex IMO should be nerfed to maintain a more balanced system of weapons. Yes, all it takes is a nex shot and a primary mg shot to kill someone. I would say decrease the nex damage to about 100, and make the reload just a tiny bit faster. Why? It's easier to escape out of such a situation with 50 hp. Now, it would still be possible to nex/rl to kill someone when the spawn, but not as easy as nex and mg/shotgun/laser.

On a side note: Maybe we should drop the rocket damage down some and speed it up some, while keeping the reload time the same. It would be more balanced IMO.

Make similar vote for RL. IMO it was good when we tested the nerfed version, altho probably not everyone have seen it.

I can not count your vote as yes tho. The proposal is 140 -> 70, not 100. But thanks for being sane anyway.

alpha:yes
ai:no
alphagod:no
komier:yes
mrbougo: no
MaKR: no
Grasshopper: no

In my opinion, the "sniper" is used as a defensive weapon and a "back-up" weapon....not so much a weapon used by those who are in the thick of it.
However, the Nex can and is being used that way. I think this can get unfair to those who are either not that good at the Nex (cough) and is redundant to those who are good at long range sniping, for the "fray-men" can just do what they do best and still have pretty much the same results.
Now, how to make more fair for the sniper/ unbalance the power away from the fray-men who just use the Nex? I know of two ways:
One: keep the Nex how it is, and tell everyone that's not so good with the Nex to train = the .......duh. I'd prefer not to use this, but hey, those that say this have a valid point and cannot be ignored
Two: Use the "2-beam" Nex idea. I apologize to the person who first though of this; it began with a "D"...maybe Div (:-() something. anyways, its not my idea, i just like it. What the 2-beam Nex would do is have two beams fire like this ======== and when they are like that, they do some damage, but not too too much. then, at a certain range (fair long) the beams meet like this =====---------- and when they are like that, it causes a lot of damage and/or splash damage (idk if the creator of the idea for the 2-beam Nex wanted splash)
This would be fair for all: the defensive sniper would be rewarded for being good at killing his enemy for a distance, and the fray-men would be rewarded by having this boon to the sniper taken away once he used his skills to be close to that sniper. Thus, the 2-Beam Nex is fair for both Off and Def (for an Off. Sniper, same applies: good damage from a distance)

Now, I'm not sure if this is possible, but i think it is a good idea, and I would like to applaud the person who wrote the post where i read this idea off of.

YARG
EDIT: I vote no, if no one likes this idea

Flandag NineFingers wrote:...
EDIT: I vote no, if no one likes this idea
...

Herd behavior: you're doing it right.

alpha:yes
ai:no
alphagod:no
komier:yes
mrbougo: no
MaKR: no
Grasshopper: no
Flandag: no

alpha, you could have just replied on my thoughts to the 2-Beam Nex instead of insult me
I don't like the nex how it is, but I don't think 70 is the right # if we keep the 1-beam Nex. I agree with PCLiz, 100 is right.
So I that case, don't list my vote, since PCLizards wasn't.

btw alpha: don't insult someone for disagreeing if you, especially when that person respected you

the new weapons need time to adjust to nexuiz gameplay before we go changing whats been proven . let the devs balance those wepons and then see if nex is too strong . like i said i dont need a nex to spawn kill . the topic could be balancing the new weapns first . hlac doesnt take a whole lot of skill to use but its damage is somewhere in the neighborhood of rocket / nex . i could span kill anyone with hlac and no combos needed . but its intentions could be a strong close range spam weapon but , idk .

Flandag NineFingers wrote:In my opinion, the "sniper" is used as a defensive weapon and a "back-up" weapon....not so much a weapon used by those who are in the thick of it.
However, the Nex can and is being used that way. I think this can get unfair to those who are either not that good at the Nex (cough) and is redundant to those who are good at long range sniping, for the "fray-men" can just do what they do best and still have pretty much the same results. Solution: learn to aim, otherwise we should just play nerf arena so noone gets butthurt. Nex is easy to counter in close range by bouncing someone with splash damage weapons.
Now, how to make more fair for the sniper/ unbalance the power away from the fray-men who just use the Nex? I know of two ways:
One: keep the Nex how it is, and tell everyone that's not so good with the Nex to train = the .......duh. I'd prefer not to use this, but hey, those that say this have a valid point and cannot be ignoredIf people had common sense, that is what they would do instead of crying about it.
Two: Use the "2-beam" Nex idea. I apologize to the person who first though of this; it began with a "D"...maybe Div (:-() something. anyways, its not my idea, i just like it. What the 2-beam Nex would do is have two beams fire like this ======== and when they are like that, they do some damage, but not too too much. then, at a certain range (fair long) the beams meet like this =====---------- and when they are like that, it causes a lot of damage and/or splash damage (idk if the creator of the idea for the 2-beam Nex wanted splash)
This would be fair for all: the defensive sniper would be rewarded for being good at killing his enemy for a distance, and the fray-men would be rewarded by having this boon to the sniper taken away once he used his skills to be close to that sniper. Thus, the 2-Beam Nex is fair for both Off and Def (for an Off. Sniper, same applies: good damage from a distance)
There doesn't need to be a reward for killing someone at distance, that is the easiest kill to get with the nex.

Now, I'm not sure if this is possible, but i think it is a good idea, and I would like to applaud the person who wrote the post where i read this idea off of.

YARG
EDIT: I vote no, if no one likes this idea

100 damage nex, maybe 15-20% faster reload time would be ideal, otherwise just leave it as it is.

alpha wrote:So basically all your arguments are void.

No, they are not void, they in fact are very much true. Of course RL - RL combo won't work with long range, but I didn't intend my combos on maps which you can shoot right into the enemy's base at the spawn points. I was talking about standing close to a spawn point, or possibly a distance away with a Nex (on good maps with walls).
And the shotgun was if you had no other weapon but you still managed to get near a spawn point. Wouldn't you use the shotgun in such case? Would you be 'stupid' to use it? If so, then I'm happy to be 'stupid'.

Another thing, no one has mentioned on HOW much the Nex would be nerfed, the 70 was just _one_ suggestion, nothing that has been decided upon. First we decide if Nex should be nerfed, then how much it should be nerfed. I will hereby take away your blue lines having a false statement. You/We started this voting with the simple question: Should the Nex be nerfed.
One cannot go back and change the question to: "Should the Nex be nerfed with <insertAmountOfDamageHere>?"
This will give false votes, and confusion. One does not enter a lottery thinking: "Ok, to win I need the number 37."
Then later on if you for instance won: "Oh, IF I also had a green ticket and a cricket in my pocket. Man, they didn't say anything about that. Did they change the rules?"
See what you tried to do here?

@Flandag:
You should know that alpha insults anyone wherever he can and even wherever he can't. He's really good at that. So much that if he keep on doing it it will lead to warnings and hopefully a ban from the forums.
Let this be a warning to you alpha. Behave properly, stop using bad language, insults and any other means of attack on people simply by disagreeing with you.

By the way, I very much support the two beam weapon as well. It does solve the problem of Nex being very powerful for long range, but a lot weaker at close range (as the beams wouldn't have crossed each other).
Mr Bougo said something that this was being worked on. However, I do not know how far it has come and how viable it is to implement. We would have to ask the coders for their answers.

alpha ,
did you or do you go by the name alphaKing donan in nexuiz ?

Ai: your avatars crack me up

ai wrote:Let this be a warning to you alpha. Behave properly, stop using bad language, insults and any other means of attack on people simply by disagreeing with you.

I am not accepting any warnings, and I hope I don't live long enough until I would. If you want to take action against me, do it, and do it now. Otherwise I don't care and I have nothing to lose. Here's a warning for you tho. One more personal assault and or attempt to discredit me and this is going to be last thing I write that is addressed to you (or at least to your names that are known to me, mr fakenick).

ai wrote:See what you tried to do here?

Like in genetic programming, you've got to start somewhere.This was MY vote and 70 was MY choice. Even if this vote fails, it is ok. We will have nex one, that will be a lot more successful.

btw alpha: don't insult someone for disagreeing if you, especially when that person respected you

A disagreement is never a problem. your motivation i.e. "I vote no, if no one likes this idea" -- is a problem.

Grasshopper wrote:alpha ,
did you or do you go by the name alphaKing donan in nexuiz ?

Ai: your avatars crack me up

No, never

Do we ask devs to nerf nex?

alpha:yes, from 140dmg to 70dmg
ai:no
alphagod:no
komier:yes
mrbougo: no
MaKR: no
Grasshopper: no

Branching off the two beam idea:

Why don't you make the beam undergo a damage gradient? Explosions do less damage as distance increases, so why don't we add that effect in reverse to the nex beam? You can start with a base of 70 damage at pointblank and have it increase linearly from there so that a snipe from across a map like greatwall will yield significantly more damage than pointblank.

Devbang wrote:Branching off the two beam idea:

Why don't you make the beam undergo a damage gradient? Explosions do less damage as distance increases, so why don't we add that effect in reverse to the nex beam? You can start with a base of 70 damage at pointblank and have it increase linearly from there so that a snipe from across a map like greatwall will yield significantly more damage than pointblank.

this may encourage more camping

alpha , what server do you play on . i would like to see why you called this vote

What? Two beam weapon useful only for long range? I thought it was meant to be superweapon and not to replace nex. Nex is good because you can use it close quarters because nex is better than sg. If you make it two beam, only mortar and spam weapons will be useful in close combat.

Since when am I a fakenick? My nick is ai. Never had any other nick, never tried, nor would ever do it as I don't see a point in doing that. So your whole 'fakenick' thing I have no idea where you get from. If I didn't know any better, you're just trying to create confusion, anger and false rumors.
Yes it's true that on IRC I use 3 different names, Seijiro, Kuroto and ai. I'm only having ai when it's available, which it almost never is on Quakenet. Then I switch between Seijiro and Kuroto whenever I feel like it. But in-game I'm always 'ai'.

alpha wrote:Do we ask devs to nerf nex from 140 damage to 70?

alpha:yes
ai:no
alphagod:no
komier:yes
mrbougo: no
MaKR: no
Grasshopper: no

I never agreed on nerfing Nex to 70. I only agreed on nerfing Nex. So you putting that blue line there would have changed my vote. Thus why I said you cannot change the rules when the contest have started. This is why I am changing your blue lines to actually fit with what I, and every other person voted on, except you. But then you should state that it was only YOU who voted 70, not change everyone elses votes.
This is wrong.

Grasshopper wrote:Ai: your avatars crack me up

Thanks I have a few more of those which I will use whenever the time is right -_^

wat

help

power mongering control freak bullies me edits my posts and tries to kill off my legit vote

to whoever who sees this
help
call esteel

Do not forget alien's vote!

alpha wrote:

Alien wrote:Actually, yes was a reply to ai (why weapons should not do more 140 dmg) not to your request. Take time to read before misinterpreting. Seems it is casual thing in this forum. It wasn'tm no either - i support splitting the nex into shock rifle and sniper weapon.

fine, dont want MY vote - MAKE YOUR OWN. I remove your vote.

alpha:yes, from 140dmg to 70dmg
ai:no
alphagod:no
alien:no
komier:yes
mrbougo: no
MaKR: no
Grasshopper: no

Mr. Bougo wrote:Do not forget alien's vote!

alpha wrote:

Alien wrote:Actually, yes was a reply to ai (why weapons should not do more 140 dmg) not to your request. Take time to read before misinterpreting. Seems it is casual thing in this forum. It wasn'tm no either - i support splitting the nex into shock rifle and sniper weapon.

fine, dont want MY vote - MAKE YOUR OWN. I remove your vote.

alpha:yes, from 140dmg to 70dmg
ai:no
alphagod:no
alien:no
komier:yes
mrbougo: no
MaKR: no
Grasshopper: no

what part of "It wasn'tm no either" confuses you?