TwEaK wrote:rail firerate is either 1250 ms or 1500ms, cant remember, spawning with 120 health, also health/armor rot when above 100/100 is extremely slow

1500

The actual problem is, that Nex shares the same ammo as electro and crylink - so if you pick up ammo or any of the other weapons, you have ammo for the Nex too.

It's now possible to make enw weapons - isn't it possible to add a new ammo class?

And you'll need to redesign all the old maps because if nex starts to use new ammo class, this class won't be available in any of these maps. Your solution could be fulfilled by doing this: making current nex act as shock rifle (using cells), making minstanex act as our current nex and adding new ammo class for it until minstanex wasn't incorporated in 100+ maps.

or just introduce an ammo limit...

torus wrote:It's still too powerful. You have to take into account that Nexuiz players are constantly losing health because of laserjumping, so their health fluctuates wildly. In a normal match, one nex hit is quite often a kill, if not very near to it.

I think that NO game should EVER have a one-hit-kill, rapid firing, hitscan sniper rifle, with low ammo usage, UNLESS it is counterbalanced with extremely scarce ammo or weapon placement. The nex is NOT counterbalanced in this way, and is essentially unstoppable in the hands of a good player. There NEEDS to be a check to the Nexrifle, whether that be my system (which continues to be overlooked), or a personal shield, or increased ammo usage.

you make a good point. I don't thing that decreasing the damage value would work well, but increasing the refire rate would be sufficient IMO.

Increase refire rate but then make it kill spawned player instantly (150 dmg).

Alien wrote:Increase refire rate but then make it kill spawned player instantly (150 dmg).

Hmm, but then wouldn't that defeat the purpose of nerfing it in the first place?!

Well, the MinstaNex was introduced to allow having a "all-powerful" Nex weapon, so one could maybe change the "regular" nex to have less damage but faster refire (more like shock rifle then).

But that would not make the regular Nex much less powerful...

and mappers who want the one-hit one-kill MinstaNex can place a weapon_minstanex entity.

As for Nex damage, currently I would accept reducing its damage to 120 or 125. Not any lower.

Minstanex is bad. It's not very impressive as a superweapon and definitely doesn't represent nexuiz (currently laser does that). Woo, can kill anyone with 999 999. "Impressive".

Now people are complaining that nex fires too fast for instakill weapon. Ok, I might agree on that. Make Nex slower (e.g. 2 secs), but make it do 150 dmg. This 10 point difference makes a lot of difference in actual gameplay (yes, there is huge difference between ALMOST instakill and instakill). Leaving nex at 140 will ruin it, what's the point of wasting 2secs and not even killing a player? That you should waste another 2secs to finish him off?

Back to minstanex. Making minsta model as a shock rifle (eg. 60dmg, 0.7s refire) would be much better than this current mega-camp ruin the game thing.

No. MinstaNex is that way because MinstaGib needs it. It basically got split from the normal Nex code.

And the last thing I want is to have a weapon AGAIN do two different things based on minstagib or not. If we want a shock rifle, make it an ADDITIONAL weapon.

No mapper HAS to place it. It is used for the MinstaGib mode after all. But mappers who make maps for the campers to enjoy WILL place it - and so they should. We non-campers should then simply avoid such maps.

Weapon stats of my server (CTF Over The Lazy Dog):

Code: Select all

  MinstaNex                       1.08160 |   .      .    +0.266 +0.533 +0.667 +0.579 +0.733 +0.482 +0.724 +1.000 +0.682 +0.905 +1.000   .   
  Nex                             0.88981 |   .      .    +0.253 +0.158 +0.355 +0.269 +0.268 +0.408 +0.516 +0.571 +0.536 +0.926 +0.969 +1.000
  Rocket Launcher                 0.61733 | -0.266 -0.253   .    -0.158 +0.204 +0.178 +0.299 +0.348 +0.443 +0.318 +0.472 +0.822 +0.914 +1.000
  Heavy Laser Assault Cannon      0.43536 | -0.533 -0.158 +0.158   .    +0.133 +0.205 +0.200 +0.333 +0.217 +0.436 +0.393 +0.895 +0.767  0.000
  Hagar                           0.36775 | -0.667 -0.355 -0.204 -0.133   .     0.000 +0.304 +0.246 +0.189 +0.235 +0.457 +0.750 +0.750 +1.000
  Uzi                             0.31994 | -0.579 -0.269 -0.178 -0.205  0.000   .    +0.013 +0.077 +0.263 +0.062 +0.363 +0.803 +0.890 +1.000
  Crylink                         0.25186 | -0.733 -0.268 -0.299 -0.200 -0.304 -0.013   .    +0.158 +0.467 +0.127 +0.291 +0.579 +0.959 +1.000
  Electro                         0.15134 | -0.482 -0.408 -0.348 -0.333 -0.246 -0.077 -0.158   .    +0.162 +0.206 +0.284 +0.636 +0.825 +1.000
  T.A.G. Seeker                  -0.02353 | -0.724 -0.516 -0.443 -0.217 -0.189 -0.263 -0.467 -0.162   .    -0.077 +0.141 +0.886 +0.867 +1.000
  Mortar                         -0.09930 | -1.000 -0.571 -0.318 -0.436 -0.235 -0.062 -0.127 -0.206 +0.077   .    +0.210 +0.474 +0.500 +1.000
  Shotgun                        -0.25759 | -0.682 -0.536 -0.472 -0.393 -0.457 -0.363 -0.291 -0.284 -0.141 -0.210   .    +0.373 +0.853 +0.800
  Laser                          -1.08583 | -0.905 -0.926 -0.822 -0.895 -0.750 -0.803 -0.579 -0.636 -0.886 -0.474 -0.373   .    +0.448   .   
  Grappling Hook                 -1.24874 | -1.000 -0.969 -0.914 -0.767 -0.750 -0.890 -0.959 -0.825 -0.867 -0.500 -0.853 -0.448   .    +1.000
  Port-O-Launch                  -1.40000 |   .    -1.000 -1.000  0.000 -1.000 -1.000 -1.000 -1.000 -1.000 -1.000 -0.800   .    -1.000   .   
  Relevance: 0


Notes:

• There have been no MinstaNex vs Nex encounters yet. That is because they can only happen on a single map at all: eggandbacon.
• Porto obviously isn't a weapon for killing, yet still hasn't been encountered against a MinstaNex. This also can happen on eggandbacon only.
• We need more games.
• TAG Seeker is listed way below its actual strength. It actually is equivalent to the Nex, except a bit weaker: it does similar amount of damage, but takes more (and different) ammo and it is harder to aim with it - and the missiles can be fended off. Yet still it's in the lower half. This is because it is OVERUSED. It is hard to hit with the tag, and it doesn't do more damage than the Nex. That means: whenever you used the TAG Seeker, you'd have done the same damage faster and easier with the Nex! Except you use the Seeker's secondary fire, of course.
• Nex now beats RL.
  This is odd, as the relative balance of the weapons has not even changed. Either this is a statistical glitch that will even out itself over time, or the average skill of using the Nex increased, while the average rocket skill stayed the same or declined.
  Because of this, I'd accept changing the Nex to 120 damage instead of the current 140. It won't change the "spirit" of the Nex, but it might fix its balance already.
• Crylink is NOT the single best weapon. Stop spreading that myth It's in the middle range of weapon balance now.
• HLAC might have to be weakened. It is quite new, yet people already can use it very well - so well that it's already in the top three "normal" weapons!

So how did i get minstanex while playing facing worlds ?
Because people took time to learn nex (or people are playing worlds more), you need to decrease damage? Why not refire rate too?
Problem with crylink is that it is a spam weapon not that it is too overpowered (it was, but you fixed it).

MinstaNex is not on facing worlds, but on camping worlds - a version of facing worlds with the MinstaNex instead of the regular nex. As the name says, that map is for all the campers.

Wrote smth in the previous post (you're too fast for me).

Alien wrote:So how did i get minstanex while playing facing worlds ?
Because people took time to learn nex (or people are playing worlds more), you need to decrease damage? Why not refire rate too?

Increasing refire time beyond the current delay is pointless, as there are weapon combos.

Combos are used in close combat. There is no point in comboing from other part of the map.
And I clearly remember having both nex and mistanex at the same time (maybe this was just one day svn change, but this is how it was...)

The thing about combos is that it does strengthen the Nex (although that doesn't show in my stats). You fire a Nex hit to do 140 damage, then finish off using the MG. A secondary MG shot does 30 damage... totalling to 170.

But I now see that reducing the Nex damage to 120 won't help. Therefore, I propose 115, as that's just not enough to finish off with a single MG shot.

Personally, I am against it cause I usually travel around the map with nex(when I get it)&laser only and leave other weapons for my team members but if vote goes for reducing nex without reducing its refire rate, i'll shut up - if people wants that, let be it.

Well, I don't care THAT much, and the better solution would be placing less nexes... but well, we'll see.

Or: increasing the MG's spread.

One of the biggest weapon problems is the RL and the consistency of the self-detonating rockets too much....

...i don't see the nex being too powerful, but if your going to reduce it you need to tinker with the other weapons also which is a lot more work.

I can't believe people have mentioned half of the weapons before the RL one, its too strong

The RL is simply intended that way... and to be the most powerful weapon.

However, remote detonated rockets could have less damage (but must have the same radius!). Maybe the RL should have altogether less edge damage.

Since when rl should be more powerful then nex? NO! Sniper guns were always more powerful then rocket launchers.

Alien wrote:Since when rl should be more powerful then nex? NO! Sniper guns were always more powerful then rocket launchers.

The same way crylinks are always more.. ? oh wait..

What did you mean? Div has already balanced crylink (at least in my opinion).

Heh yes, its fine. my point it threes no point in comparing fictional weapons like that.

No, i was comparing not real guns but relative guns' power in other games. Sniper gun was always more powerful, but you need to learn to aim to get it useful (rail, sniper in ut, crossbow in hl), while rl lets you kill otherswith splash damage. This rambling of course had no sense, cause you already knew this.

Alien wrote:No, i was comparing not real guns but relative guns' power in other games. Sniper gun was always more powerful, but you need to learn to aim to get it useful (rail, sniper in ut, crossbow in hl), while rl let you kill other with splash damage. This rambling of course had no sense, cause you already knew this.

shot for shot sniper in UT was fairly weak... 67 damage for body shot, 150 for headshot, rockets were 200 damage each, being able to stack 6 in one pack for 1200 damage, shock combo was somewhere around 480 damage, etc

Wasn't 200 damage for direct hit?

Nerf the nex but not so much: more distance => less damage

It could be a good idea.

Iirv we've tried that a long ago (I mean: playtested that too). It's no fun