terencehill wrote:Nerf the nex but not so much: more distance => less damage
It could be a good idea.

It is a sniper weapon, and should be good for long range, and NOT get worse over distance.

What one could try would be limiting short range use, but that had been tried and wasn't really good (it may balance it better, but such a behaviour would be unexpected unless one can make a particle effect and weapon model for it that hints to it, e.g. two beams that converge at a point).

Imagine a two-barrel Nex, where a beam comes out of each barrel. In some safe distance, the beams converge, and continue as a single beam. At the point where these beams converge, there is an explosion with splash damage. If the beams before that point hit anything, only small damage is done, and the beam ends (and no splash damage is done).

The two beams from the barrels would be red and green - and not lethal, just hurt a bit. If the beams hit each other, there would be a plasma-like explosion effect, and a yellow beam would emerge from there, in the originally aimed direction. That beam would be like the current Nex beam, of course.

Would require some coding AND modelling, but it would make the Nex good for long range, bad for short range, and have a cool explosion effect where the beams merge.

This could even be pseudophysically explained: the beams have to merge in a very specific angle, or it would not work. You can only put the barrels so close together, so putting that point nearer would not work.

I strangely like that idea. I even have a model concept in my head for such a weapon. I could totally see the weapon when reading your description.
If something like this would be appreciated I could model the thing out.

div's idea wins. I love it. death to old nex.

We will see, we will see...

Here's just a quick design I made for such a change of weapon. Of course, this is made just for me just for fun. But I figured I could share this as well. This doesn't mean that the Nex will be changed and certainly not to this either.
I have yet not decided if I want to make this model. But if I later find myself doing it and finishing it I might as well release it as a GPL alternate model for people to download at free will. But we'll see what happens, I might even make other Nex concepts (just for my own personal interests).



If you want to follow the creation of this (or other Nexuiz projects) just go here:
http://forums.alientrap.local/viewtopic.php?p=50422#50422

make it 3 beams so it looks like so (when looking from in front of it)

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Three beams targeted into a middle point has been done so much that I do not want to make yet another such concept. Besides, if by any chance Div0's descriptive weapon would be included in the game I think 2 such beams would be easier to code.
My concept is that the green beam goes straight, while the red one is slightly tilted downwards. So you could still fire people and hit them if they are close, but longer range (when the red one hits the green beam) it gets stronger and also possibly changes color to white or something (from the point it hits and continues with that color).

It sounds like a very interesting idea. I like iit, but I wonder how much it might upset the rest of the playerbase.

What sort of damage would be appropriate for close range?

Do you guys think that it will be obvious enough that one will need to "cross the streams" for maximum damage?

If I remember properly, when sniper rifles In True Combat Elite were changed to low damage/close range and high damage/long range, there was hell of a lot of screaming and whining because players weren't able to figure it out.

I'm also a little terrified that a nerfing might push mappers to place MinstaNexes instead of Nexes.

I like this idea of two beams converging very much indeed. That would be a really interesting weapon after all!

Reading a lot about people hating campers "abusing" the nex, I figured that the basic problem is people that are sitting on open maps at one place and sniping. So I thought, why don't we

a) reduce the basic damage of Nex to something like 70 or 80 (so that it is still powerful) and then
b) increase the damage of the nex proportional to the moving speed of its carrier up to 150?

So that the nex deals full damage if you are moving like really fast, while capping the potential damage dealt at some point so that you would still manage to survive a single hit if you have armor or additional health.

Just had this idea and thought give it a try. What do you people think?

I don't think that idea would be such a good one. Cause only those who can move really fast will be able to use the Nex, and even so, when moving it's harder to hit an opponent sometimes. This is very newbie unfriendly.
I'm honestly still against nerfing the Nex altogether though. I kinda see the two beam thing like a super weapon. The projectiles move slowly, and only once they cross, and then the beam hit something, is it going to have an effect and thus make a huge explosion
Something like UT's Redeemer.

Well, my aim was to make the "sitting duck" snipers less dangerous... but you are right, this would increase the gap between skilled players (who are able to hit with the nex while at high speed) and newbies (who aren't). This is generally to be avoided.

...but then again sniping shouldn't be so attractive to Newbies.

...though I also have seen passionate campers evolve to rather nice and well-doing players over the time.

/me confused what to do

ai wrote:I don't think that idea would be such a good one. Cause only those who can move really fast will be able to use the Nex, and even so, when moving it's harder to hit an opponent sometimes. This is very newbie unfriendly.
I'm honestly still against nerfing the Nex altogether though. I kinda see the two beam thing like a super weapon. The projectiles move slowly, and only once they cross, and then the beam hit something, is it going to have an effect and thus make a huge explosion
Something like UT's Redeemer.

Way better than nerfing current nex. Would be nice superweapon.

Two beams converging 100 meters away will make nex useless at close combat and won't reduce the number of campers. Therefore, no point in this.

this instant hit instant kill gun along with MG should be changed/removed

plz nerf nex

McDonalds should build a place right next to my house so I can order hamburgers everyday. But that ain't going to happen either

plz build a McDonalds next to my house.

ai wrote:McDonalds should build a place right next to my house so I can order hamburgers everyday. But that ain't going to happen either

plz build a McDonalds next to my house.

plz provide business plan for that new mcdonalds and it wud be built if the plan is efficient

alpha wrote:

ai wrote:McDonalds should build a place right next to my house so I can order hamburgers everyday. But that ain't going to happen either

plz build a McDonalds next to my house.

plz provide business plan for that new mcdonalds and it wud be built if the plan is efficient

It's not my job to do that. As much as nerfing Nex is your job, unless you create your own server and put it up.

Ew! McDonald's?

halogene wrote:

a) reduce the basic damage of Nex to something like 70 or 80 (so that it is still powerful) and then
b) increase the damage of the nex proportional to the moving speed of its carrier up to 150?

i take no less.
In the beginning of Nexuiz i liked the Nex, because it was, along with the Rocket Launcher, THE superweapon that everyone was trying to get. The fact that it KILLED you, no matter what, made it so attractive. i don't think it fits the current gameplay at all - it's "off worlds". (neither does the HLAC, btw )

Standing (or sitting) still should remove damage completely and increase on acceleration. The amount of damage would build up during movement and start to decrease when idle. So, you would only have to be fast for a certain amount of time. Then, you would have to move again.

PS:
You might wanna visit the ToT server.

We will be moving to large open maps area again, where you can move easily. What if I'm in the hydronex portal chamber with the flag? My nex become useless because I wait behind for enemy portalling in and do not move?

Exactually.

The idea of nex doing damage only while player has speed is rather cool. As is an idea of 2-beamed gun.

But I wanna know what devs think of it. Div ? Anyone?

I think the idea of the 2 beamed gun is quite interesting, but I dislike the concept of having to move to use it. So I present another option.

Why not, if possible, split off nex ammo so it is separate. Except, there are no pickups. The nex's ammo simply charges up slowly as you move around.

moving is different from speed.
you can camp on top of facing and be moving :/

Then have a minimum value for the charging that is above that of walking/running

Why do you all want to introduce some non-intuitive ideas instead of making or encourage playing good maps (FACING WORLD!!! is not). Nex is long-range sniping gun and leave it as it is. I suppose the whole thing of nerfing nex is because you can't play fw or gw. Oh no... what a pity - these maps suck or not meant to be played any other way (e.g. fw).

2 points for Alien.
The Nex is fine as it is. It is in fact a weapon which can be called a sniper weapon, such weapons are strong. The Nex makes perfectly sense on, for instance, MikeCTF.
Keep in mind, maps where you can shot directly into the enemy base != a good map. So stop trying cripple Nexuiz to fit bad maps. Create good maps instead.

ai wrote:2 points for Alien.
The Nex is fine as it is. It is in fact a weapon which can be called a sniper weapon, such weapons are strong. The Nex makes perfectly sense on, for instance, MikeCTF.
Keep in mind, maps where you can shot directly into the enemy base != a good map. So stop trying cripple Nexuiz to fit bad maps. Create good maps instead.

Hmm I guess you are right, Alien and ai. Having the current nex altered in any way would certainly make it hardly useful in good maps like MikeCTF.

As I still like the ideas that came up in this thread including mine I could nevertheless imagine the nex increase damage when moving really fast. The double-barrel-merging-explosive laser would be a really cool additional kind of super-weapon. We should keep this idea in mind though and see how the freshly introduced weapons impact on weapon balance before we introduce even more.

make nex = 70 damage and lets test it then

alpha wrote:make nex = 70 damage and lets test it then

If I remember correctly, we already tried Nex with around that kind of damage, it wasn't useful a bit. Sorry you missed that testing time (a long time ago), but there's no reason to test the same thing twice when the initial response was bad.
Now don't take this personally but (this is my honest to goodness opinion); making Nex stronger by movement speed is the most ridiculous idea I've seen anyone come up with. This alienates newbies like crazy, even skilled people I believe, to the Nex (and maybe to Nexuiz). This weapon would then equal something like 70 damage in the end anyway.
I can already see tons of complaints if something like that were introduced.

I would rather make a patch which would make a mintstanex act as nex with 70 dmg and decreased reload time in all games instead of minsta.

Again, a possible solution:

torus wrote:The nex fits all of the criteria for a sniper rifle, without being slow. Give it a refire system, where you can shoot 2x quickly in succession, then you have to wait 2.5-3 seconds for it to 'cool down'. However, if you do time it so that it doesn't overheat, you can shoot with a minimum refire of 2 seconds.

Then, a less powerful (~65 hp/hit), but FASTER firing version of the Nex would be added (hitscan, perfect accuracy), for those who like to use the nex as a non-camper weapon.

Why hasn't this even been considered? It seems (TO ME) like a nice, simple solution to an obvious problem, which would satisfy several different kinds of players, without getting into stupid complex stuff like crossing beams, etc.