Hi everyone. I finished the single player campaign of version 2.4.2 of Nexuiz and I was very frustrated on some maps beacuse of lack of the respawn shield. If you don't know what on earth is that read below:

Respawn shield is a feature, that players are immortal (don't take any damage from projectiles, lava, slime etc.) for a short time after respawn. That gives players chance of getting some weapon or running from a slaughterhouse to save their own precious life.

If you played a match with too many players on too small map and you got killed 4 times in 6 seconds without any chance of defence - that is pissing up. Why not to fix it?

What do you think?

It could be optional but I don't think should be compulsory. It would otherwise interfere with some gametypes like Instagib.

The shotgun is a pretty powerful weapon short range and any invincibility might make it too easy to get a killing spree on respawn.

Ed wrote:It could be optional but I don't think should be compulsory. It would otherwise interfere with some gametypes like Instagib.

The shotgun is a pretty powerful weapon short range and any invincibility might make it too easy to get a killing spree on respawn.

Right on the ball. If your fast enough you can get out of any situation with the laser. Due to the weapons in nex being fairly balanced, the shotgun can be quite deadly too.

I suppose something optional for servers/single player could be neat.

Sepelio wrote:If your fast enough you can get out of any situation with the laser.

Not anyone can do laserjumps :/
thats why i vote for 1-2 secs because of the new players. example: spawn killing at Facing Worlds behind the base. just evil - for everyone. Ok you might fall down but not in all maps

and of course not in all gametypes (Minsta, Insta etc.)

who voted over 15 secs ? lol

Shotgun secondary should be fixed and weapon made as pickable. I'm also for invincibility because of some networking problems people who respawn are seen earlier by enemies than they can move.

While not perfect, the next release will have an easy to way to enable it. There will be a menu list that lets you edit EVERY variable there is in the game, complete with descriptions and stuff. Thus if people need it they can be told the variable and they can enable it before starting the campaign.
An other way would be to enable/disable the respawn shield in regard to the selected skill (in the campaign only) but i feel like the original poster had more problems with the later levels so this could be just the opposite of what he wants

Alien wrote:Shotgun secondary should be fixed and weapon made as pickable. I'm also for invincibility because of some networking problems people who respawn are seen earlier by enemies than they can move.

Fix? HOW? Would help to be more specific..
I see no problem with either pressing mouse1 or mouse2.. making it possible to switch the firemodes would only make the code needlessly more complex.
The little latency due to networking hardly warrants the respawn shield. Besides if the respawning guy is the low-pinger AND gets protected he is even more at an advantage

LOL sorry.. you wrote weapon MADE pickable.. not weapon mode pickable.. forget the last paragraph. However the weapon CAN also be picked up if mappers put the weapon entity into maps. And the gun is dropped (for pickup) when fragged.. But starting just with the laser is a bad IDEA imo. Or do you have an idea about a replacement that will NOT be overpowered or be work to implement?

Alien wrote:Shotgun secondary should be fixed and weapon made as pickable.

It would be totally useless making the shotgun being pickup-able as everyone already starts with one which would only result in more entities to place out and one extra unnecessary model. The shotgun ammo is already enough, unless you suggest that people spawn without the shotgun which would be really bad as you had no defense whatsoever anymore.

Actually, the shotgun IS pickup-able.

The only weapon that can't ever be picked up is the laser, and that is only because nobody made a laser pickup model.

Someone PLEASE make such a model so you can make maps where you start without laser, and pick one up later (e.g. on race maps).

Protection shield and a laser. No need to have a shotgun like this. Shotgun could be made as a proper weapon finally instead of having secondary fire mode as a joke in order not to make it too powerful for primary weapon (no more excuses then).

Once I get a good connection I can get only 30 and be LPB, but I still can say that I'm being shown earlier than being able to move. That is the first moment you respawn you already have a rocket explosion inside your face. It was in all previous Nexuiz versions I've played so I got used to it but still I can do same thing for other players so I think it's not my solo problem.

Well, this isn't even a bug, but absolutely normal and can't be helped.

You respawn on the server. If your ping is higher than someone else's, he'll OF COURSE see you respawn first.

BTW, spawn shield DOES exist and is an option.

It think it does not matter on the lag so much. I guess it might be rendering related (you are shown as active for others while the scene where you respawn in still rendered on your screen and you think you're still respawning).

Taking away shotgun and replacing it with shield would in no way work. You could have the shield of the universe and still being without a weapon the enemy would just follow you until your shield would go away and than BAM. He would laser you off any weapons or take them before you.

Now if we talk maps where an enemy would have too long to walk to get to the spawn place you'd still be vulnerable once the shield failed and while you might yet not have picked up a weapon.

Shotgun is absolutely perfect. Trust me, it has saved me tons of times, if you cannot use it don't punish all the others by saying it should be changed/removed. Besides, a starting weapon shouldn't be all powerful, this weapon is actually almost overpowered for a starting weapon.

However, a shield of 2-3 sec would be nice. Anymore and it would break, I'm a bit iffy about 3 secs actually.

It should be made as separate weapon and you also have laser to defend and get away quickly.

Laser is not capable of defending oneself with, only to disorient an opponent, which can be useful indeed (I use it all the time), but as a defensive weapon it's not good.

Alien wrote:It should be made as separate weapon and you also have laser to defend and get away quickly.

and what if you are for the first time on a server?
i don't get this discussion the shotgun is really the perfect start weapon and if you don't like it Alien just drop it

ai wrote:Laser is not capable of defending oneself with, only to disorient an opponent, which can be useful indeed (I use it all the time), but as a defensive weapon it's not good.

Laser is both good as defensive and as attacking weapon. You can run away or push incoming attacker (defense)/ finish enemy from long range after nex shot (attacking).

Mirio wrote:and what if you are for the first time on a server?
i don't get this discussion Razz the shotgun is really the perfect start weapon and if you don't like it Alien just drop it Wink

Said by someone who always drops UT had just an enforcer as a primary next to hammer and nobody complained.

my opinion??? Shit happens if you get spawnkilled.

Enforcer wasn't bad.

Anyway, spawnshield IS ALREADY THERE. In svn, it also automatically turns off once you shoot, so you can't do killing sprees with it.

g_spawnshieldtime 2 to activate it.

Alien wrote:Laser is both good as defensive and as attacking weapon. You can run away or push incoming attacker (defense)/ finish enemy from long range after nex shot (attacking).

Yes of course, but I was talking about as soon as you spawn, then a laser isn't enough to protect yourself with.

The reason I mentioned enforcer is because:

shotgun secondary can't be fixed because it will become too powerful -> fixing it and making as separate pickable weapon would be bad because you are stuck with the laser -> laser is bad weapon even it is comparable to enforcer in damage and despite the fact you can laserjump with it or that is the best weapon in space maps

What will be more excuses to keep irrational secondary fire? That people are too attached to it while dropping the weapon the same second they get nex, rl, mortar, ... Or that weapon designed for combat was intentionally designed to perform worse than it could? Why not rockets flying backwards into the face then?

Laser is enough to protect oneself especially if you are not killed the same second you respawn without noticing that you've respawned.

Anyway, there already are plenty of threads where you argue for the shotgun, let's not get off topic here. Though the topic has already been covered, there is a shield already implemented in the SVN so that's all good.

Laser by far isn't enough to protect yourself with. You have laser, someone else has shotgun, the shotgun would probably win 95% each time (depending on the skills of those players, not talking noob-shotgun vs pro-laser).

Try to catch anyone with shotgun while they have the laser.

Next time I'll upload a video of a laser guy who constantly did 3 or more laser hits in the air.

I'll argue about shotgun cause it obvious that sec fire was made like this because of lack of imagination.

Alien wrote:I'll argue about shotgun cause it obvious that sec fire was made like this because of lack of imagination.

Well, you want secondary to be one shot right? The primary already is a one shot fire, then there would be no imagination at all in that.
I also meant laser vs shotgun fight. In certain situations the laser gun would have no chance of escaping, thus the shotgun guy would easily kill that laser guy than the laser guy killing the shotgun guy. Newbies would have no idea to use the laser to get them out of trouble at spawn, and even if they did, it still requires a skill.

When one has to defend oneself he doesn't choose the laser to kill his opponent (unless he's really skilled with it and try to disorient the opponent), he would choose another weapon. But to get away, yes, the laser is there at hand.

In most situations you would have trouble cornering laser guy to use shotgun effectively.

I would want hold right button & charge (aka showing putting more bullets into the gun animation) -> huge blast of pellets, not this 3 shots, 2 miss situation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrapnel

Alien wrote:

Mirio wrote:and what if you are for the first time on a server?
i don't get this discussion Razz the shotgun is really the perfect start weapon and if you don't like it Alien just drop it Wink

Said by someone who always drops UT had just an enforcer as a primary next to hammer and nobody complained.

Yes, but only in CTF because there you spawn usually beside another weapon and i change them with the mouse wheel

Alien wrote:Try to catch anyone with shotgun while they have the laser.

Next time I'll upload a video of a laser guy who constantly did 3 or more laser hits in the air.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Tr3pQ-canQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7LD71pxKrA


in the 1st video he can't even get me with his RL

As a matter of fact, I have reliable stats on this question.

In shotgun vs laser duels, the shotgunner wins in 59% of the cases. That's ALMOST even.

The REAL weakness of the laser is against other weapons than the shotgun. E.g. against Uzi users, shotgunners win in 41% of the cases, while laser users just win in 30% of the cases. Against Electro, shotgun wins in 35% of the cases, but laser just in 19%.

So the shotgun certainly is NOT too weak. Stop spreading that myth. As a starting weapon, it is balanced just right. It's sure the worst of the "actual" weapons (that is, excluding laser, hook, porto), so every weapon you pick up is an upgrade for you. But it certainly is not useless, as these stats show. You'd be MUCH worse off with a laser.

In a way, the SG is comparable to UT's enforcer in this respect.

We need a "double shotgun" mode where you can hold one with each hand

As you have posted we can see that the shotgun still sucks against all other weapons and insensible sec. fire is not helping either. It seems like it's shotgun's fate not to be made real weapon which could stand in it's own way against rl whores.

And such comparisons are wrong. This way you could compare hook versus laser where laser would win 99% cases. It wouldn't make laser stronger weapon. When comparing weapons one should consider that laser in it's basic form is a movement weapon and not meant for dueling what your stats show. Being fragged while jumping with a laser does not make the laser a bad weapon.

Why nobody makes CTF stats how many flags are captured without using the laser divided from the total amount of captures? Laser allows to grab even more poweful weapon than your enemy has (depending on the situation of course) while most of the other weapons do not.

I really don't know what you're on about Alien. Of course laser is used when capping a flag, as you said, it's a movement 'weapon'. But saying that one should spawn with ONLY laser is to be honest, absurd. As you would have no way in defending yourself as well against enemies (newbies especially would have a hard time). In close combat shotgun is very strong and can save your hide, but laser wouldn't. It does little damage. And shotgun is mainly in close combat.

Alien wrote:As you have posted we can see that the shotgun still sucks against all other weapons and insensible sec. fire is not helping either.

Isn't that the point? As div0 said, any weapon you pickup should be an upgrade than the starting weapon. However, a shotgun can still win against RL quite easy if you keep your distance and only use primary fire. Sec fire is only in close combat (as it's spread is greater). It's damage is almost the same if not the same (dunno about that), so in close combat sec. fire means 3 primary shots in sequence and if you hit that's deadly. If you miss then you need to become better at aiming and predicting, i.e. you need more skills.

Alien wrote:As you have posted we can see that the shotgun still sucks against all other weapons and insensible sec. fire is not helping either. It seems like it's shotgun's fate not to be made real weapon which could stand in it's own way against rl whores.

Sure, we need ONE starting weapon that's actually a weapon. This doesn't necessarily have to be a shotgun, but it currently is, and I see no reason to change that.

Q3A used a MG for that purpose, and UT the enforcer. So?

If you want a stronger SG, why not something like Q2's super shotgun?

And such comparisons are wrong. This way you could compare hook versus laser where laser would win 99% cases. It wouldn't make laser stronger weapon. When comparing weapons one should consider that laser in it's basic form is a movement weapon and not meant for dueling what your stats show. Being fragged while jumping with a laser does not make the laser a bad weapon.

I was merely supporting the fact that making the laser the ONLY starting weapon would suck, as the shotgun IS stronger *AS A WEAPON* than the laser is.

Back to topic now! respawn shield request

Create you own topic for the nonsense discussion about the shotgun.
RL as a start weapon! is everyone happy now?