alpha wrote:Tested for a bit with clanmate.

110 dmg nex = fine
guided RL = fine, looks very awesome, maybe reduce damage a bit because really hard to dodge

What maps did you test it on?

I ask because, the scenarios of engagements with this weapon should be important information here, since the new rocket launcher settings might make it more or less effective at close, medium and long range, or in tunnels, fields, etc.

facing,
thegreatdivide,
geitctf,
cpmctf

alpha wrote:Tested for a bit with clanmate.

110 dmg nex = fine
guided RL = fine, looks very awesome, maybe reduce damage a bit because really hard to dodge

Ah, so You're the reason that I rarely play nexuiz with default weapons settings!

I play with enhanced damage settings because the pull of your complaints make the weapons pathetic across the board.

(Oh I just got hit directly with a high powered explosive! Still standing!)
(Oh a grenade exploded on my foot! Just a scratch!)
(Oh I just got ran through by a rail gun projectile... not dead!)

guided RL = fine, looks very awesome, maybe reduce damage a bit because really hard to dodge

Read: alpha got pwnd by his fellow clansman, nerf the RL.

A bit of a follow up.

Look divverent I know that you have ideological issues with model makers and map makers and who else you hate. But for once, if you want your changes tested on your lazy dog servers, this is what you will do:

1. make fullbright skins on. NO ONE CAN'T SEE SHIT, PRONTO!? I don't know how to make you understand this.
2. remove vote quantity restrictions (the not-so-funny stuff about server vcalling a kick against you after several votes)
3. clean up the map pool (optional, but would be nice). Gazillion maps with 80% of them mikeusa crap and impossible to vote last map? really?

Until you dont make decent environment you are not getting any testing/feedback from me my clan.

If you're votespamming, you deserve the kick.

If you refuse to play there, don't complain when your opinions are ignored. Your very own fault.

As for fbskins: this is NOT ideological issues with model makers. No, it's model makers not wanting their models being displayed that way. They work hard to make normalmaps, and want them shown. If you make morphed tell me that I should set fullbright players, I'll do it.

And no, it's not ME who wants the changes to be tested. I am not asking YOU a favor to test the changes. I am giving you the CHANCE to do it. If you do not want to use that chance, this is your decision - but then don't say you haven't been given the chance.

As for the voting: there is NINE maps to vote from. At least THREE of them are not utter crap, whatever the random generator decides. Why not just make use of your vote and stop complaining?

divVerent wrote:If you're votespamming, you deserve the kick.

Dude I was just vcalling a map after we figured that current one is no good :/ And then someone else vcalled, AND GOT A VOTE AGAINST HIM TOO. He was _NOT_ vcalling any votes before that.

divVerent wrote:If you refuse to play there, don't complain when your opinions are ignored. Your very own fault.

How are we supposed to play when half of people cant AIM and other half cant SEE stuff??? Tell me?

divVerent wrote:And no, it's not ME who wants the changes to be tested. I am not asking YOU a favor to test the changes.

Well how about you dont force us to test stuff in GHETTO environment so we also have _FUN_ testing it ?

Everyone having the very same green robot skin is NOT fun. Especially in team games.

Votespamming is starting a map vote in the first minute of a game. YOU JUST HAD A MAJORITY VOTING FOR THIS MAP, NO POINT VOTING FOR ANOTHER ONE, RETARD.

As for not SEEING stuff - odd that you're the only one who complains. If lightgrid sucks on a map (like facing worlds), I set up the mapinfo file to set fullbright players (BUT NOT, NEVER, FBSKINS) on that map.

And I am not forcing you to test anything. Go ruin some other game's community. Please, delete Nexuiz from your hard drive and play Quake Live with the other retards. They'll welcome you back.

divVerent wrote:Votespamming is starting a map vote in the first minute of a game. YOU JUST HAD A MAJORITY VOTING FOR THIS MAP, NO POINT VOTING FOR ANOTHER ONE, RETARD.

Well my majority (there were 4 players on server: [iO]alpha, [iO]waterlaz, [iO]edwin, [iO]s0rk) had needed around 25 second to figure out that map sucks and we agreed for chmap but noo, ghetto rules won't allow.

divVerent wrote:And I am not forcing you to test anything.

But you are forcing changes no one can properly test. Nice one.

divVerent wrote:Go ruin some other game's community. Please, delete Nexuiz from your hard drive and play Quake Live with the other retards.

Frankly, I don't think you've lived long enough in this world to tell me what to do.

divVerent wrote:They'll welcome you back.

I have never played QL Shows how much you know about me.

also, "RETARD" ? fuck you

divVerent wrote:As for fbskins: this is NOT ideological issues with model makers. No, it's model makers not wanting their models being displayed that way. They work hard to make normalmaps, and want them shown. If you make morphed tell me that I should set fullbright players, I'll do it.

I for one agree whole-heartedly. What is the point of having Nexuiz' advanced graphics engine if you just use fullbright craptasticness anyway?

Map makers simply need to adequately light maps, or players who have vision issues should turn up the ambient light to compensate.

As for the voting: there is NINE maps to vote from. At least THREE of them are not utter crap, whatever the random generator decides. Why not just make use of your vote and stop complaining?

Curious, does lazy dog cycle through all of the Nexuiz maps available out there, or only ones that have met certain requirements?

All maps. But out of 9, there's always some good ones. VOTE FOR THEM.

divVerent wrote:All maps. But out of 9, there's always some good ones. VOTE FOR THEM.

Cool, I prefer a big range of maps.

I just remember you removing Das Tower from the list, so I thought there might be others too in a ban list.

There are.

I move maps there if they are very, obviously, bad.

If you want to suggest any other maps to go there, go ahead.

I've tried the rocket stearing offline for a little... odd, I have to say. Needs more testing from me on public too.
One thing I dislike already: no rapid firing of roclets anymore, no badass rocket spamming

Rapid fire should work, but in semi-automatic mode.

If suggestmap is enabled on DivVerent's servers, suggest a map if you don't like the other maps.

I sadly cannot play on Over the Lazy Dog servers, because I get lots of high ping, warping, and lag.

New York to Germany is not a very good connection, I'm afraid.

Yes, suggestmap is enabled, and endmatch votes are not blocked at the start of the round (only chmap is).

I played some DM FFA (4-5 random maps I didnt play before) and only 1 2on2TDM (stormkeep).

My first thoughts:
1.) reduced nexdamage

As I brought up the topic Armor/MH Balance where I wanted to go the other way '(increasing powerups worth), I am very happy about this change. The difference is not huge, but it fits very well when you pickup powerups. Now they give you the small boost to have nearly an "extralive" against this weapon. Because you can pickup anything to get over 100 health or armor, this is fine. Funny enough, you told me that you dont like "weird numbers" but the nex got 110 dmg But please dont change it now because of that

2.) the new rocketlauncher

It is a lot of fun, makes the rocketlauncher very powerful and it helps for some reason to not explode rockets in your face when the enemy shots some grenades at you. In my oppinion, the damage of the nexgun and rocketlauncher should be the same of about 110. I didnt put to much thoughts about it, but with the new rockets, the damage of the launcher dont have to be bigger or lower then the nexgun damage. The nexgun will still stay on top of the weapons, as hitscans are just useful in any situation. But with this rocketlauncher, we have a big 2nd weapon which is now useful in most situations, too. Mortar will now take 3rd place and will be (as before) the main combo weapon.

3.) the spawner

I didnt notice to much troubles in the game, but we played not that serious overall. I mean, the new rockets help a lot but I mentioned it in the Armor/MH Balance thread, that fresh respawners are to powerful. I also noticed a "respawnshield" for a short time on your DM server, which makes the respawner even stronger. I hope this is will never be added for any serious 1v1DM/2v2TDM/3v3CTF laddergames.

Because we have reduced damage on the mainweapons, this might be a problem. Lowering starting health or the ammo for the shotgun would be an idea. Other ideas would be a better "spawnsound". For some reason, I can hear the spawnsound but not tell where it came from. In Q3 I can (if I am near enough to hear the sound) and tell you exactly where the enemy spawned. But maybe this is just me?

4.) a sound when you cant switch to the weapon (out of ammo)

I love it!

5.) Random Quadspawn/Quadspawn is announced

First off, Thanks!! You added it, no more quad at the start.

Random respawntime: Because of the announcement it doesnt matter if it spawns randomly or at a fixed time.
About the announcement: It is a very cool feature and I like it for any public server. You should announce it maybe a bit earlier for bigger maps. I cannot tell you if I like it for serious games, but the idea is not bad an adds some more action. Some more playing needed to give a real opinion about that.

One small idea:
- Add an sound "vote called" when someone calls a vote. This is a supersmall fix but will help to hear it.

I will test and play some more with the new settings. The first look is very promising!
**FBSKIN bug is fixed

Bundy wrote:Because we have reduced damage on the mainweapons, this might be a problem. Lowering starting health or the ammo for the shotgun would be an idea. Other ideas would be a better "spawnsound". For some reason, I can hear the spawnsound but not tell where it came from. In Q3 I can (if I am near enough to hear the sound) and tell you exactly where the enemy spawned. But maybe this is just me?

A solution to that problem is to not reduce the weap dmg .

tundramagi wrote:A solution to that problem is to not reduce the weap dmg .

Is also a solution, sure. Just want to bring up something else then only nerfing weapondamage

http://rm.endoftheinternet.org/~nexuiz/weapons.html

As for the spawn sound: the sound is still the temporary sound I made that was never supposed to be released, but nobody ever made a better one (or even attempted to).

Let me pick up this old thread again, recently LordHavoc has revised the havoc mode and made some very nice improvements.

Especially the rocket launcher with guided rockets works much nicer than in stock nexuiz. I would love to see the havoc RL taken over for the default mode, mainly because it allows for a faster gameplay.

Guiding rockets at their current speed (850) is very time consuming, and you are forced to stand still for quite a while to do proper aiming. This makes you an easy target, and does not encourage faster gameplay. Also you're not going to catch a flagcarrier with it when he's laserjumping away quickly.

Havoc RL is much faster (2200), but also harder to control due to it's speed. This makes it more useful in many situations, but very hard to control (you will rarily get direct hits if your target is moving). Also it is much nicer to twist rockets around curves.

LordHavoc also wants havoc mode to become default. I plan to not take over ALL the changes in havoc mode, but most (especially most weapon changes and the health system). As for player physics I am unsure, but it's not THAT much different. And visually, it'll stay as is. havoc rocket launcher may be overpowered though...

You can test this mode by deleting default25.cfg from a fresh svn checkout of trunk.

but we'll do some weapon balance stats recording before 2.6 to get this straight again.

divVerent wrote:LordHavoc also wants havoc mode to become default. I plan to not take over ALL the changes in havoc mode, but most (especially most weapon changes and the health system).

Isn't that kind of extreme? I mean weapon balance is currently near perfect in default, while at least up to 2.5.1 Havoc weapons were a total mess. IMHO, only the health system and shotgun were solid improvements.

You've all spent so much time and energy on making the weapon balance so solid as it is now, I don't understand why you would what to throw that away and start more or less from scratch.

You can test this mode by deleting default25.cfg from a fresh svn checkout of trunk.

Will the most recent Havoc balancing be available in 2.6.2 for testing?

In the beta (at least the latest 9998), havoc mode is updated and you can test the new settings. These changes will be in 2.5.2 as well.

And some things in havoc do not make much sense to me, but indeed the health system and the new rocket launcher are better than normal nexuiz imho. I also like the laser having 2 modes, one with lots of push and the other with lots damage.

If the good sides of havoc can be merged into the defaults it would be great, but switching to havoc altogether in a new release would be very bad.

merlijn wrote:I also like the laser having 2 modes, one with lots of push and the other with lots damage.

I like this basic idea as well, but not the implementation.

The primary fire mode in default already offers plenty of push and enough damage, and the combination of the two keeps speed players from laser jumping indefinitely.

So what I'd much rather see is just a "melee" high-damage secondary that has only limited range:

Code: Select all

set g_balance_laser_secondary 1 // when 1, a secondary laser mode exists
set g_balance_laser_secondary_damage 100
set g_balance_laser_secondary_edgedamage 1
set g_balance_laser_secondary_force 10
set g_balance_laser_secondary_radius 0.1
set g_balance_laser_secondary_speed 2000
set g_balance_laser_secondary_refire 0.2
set g_balance_laser_secondary_animtime 0.2
set g_balance_laser_secondary_lifetime 0.15

If the good sides of havoc can be merged into the defaults it would be great, but switching to havoc altogether in a new release would be very bad.

What I was reacting to was the idea of "most" of the Havoc weapon changes being moved over. Because it seems to me like most of those changes are either imbalancing, unfun, or both. But maybe they are better in 2.5.2, I'll give them a clean slate for that.

First of all, 2.5.2 is not getting the havoc settings.

Secondly, we'll run big balancing sessions for the havoc weapon settings, as we KNOW they'll need some balancing first. To me, some weapons look clearly overpowered, and this will get fixed.

I really really dont understand it, we were trying to perfect the weapon balance throught years, now its getting pretty good and suddenly throw out everything on the window for a system thats not tested enough (and uses extreme weapon settings)? o.O
I couldnt test the new HP system, I hope finally its against stacking, so for example 1on1s will be finally interesting and not the fight of a 400/400 guy against a 125/0 player because anyone can say anything but thats not fun to keep control THIS way (especially due the pickup circles possible to make in this game)

Guess why we'll need lots of balancing sessions... I also made a mutator that spawns everyone with a random weapon, to gather weapon balance stats fast.

FraNcoTirAdoR wrote:I couldnt test the new HP system, I hope finally its against stacking

Yes it is, 200/200 is max.

divVerent, I have an idea if its not possible to avoid these havoc-style of weapons to get into Nexuiz later: there should be a havoc server up with the actual snapshot of the weapon settings that are planned to be implemented in Nexuiz 2.6, so until then we would have TONS of time to experiment with it, also a forum thread where everyone could post their thoughts about the actual state, tweak it, etc. It would be important to make this server reachable not from havoc mode only, but from the normal Nexuiz serverlist, these are mostly just weapons differences with different cvars, so it should work, shouldnt it? This could be the only way to introduce these changes without half of the frequent players leaving the community...