I've noticed that svn nexuiz spawns quad at slightly different times now.
And personaly I believe it's not a good idea. And here's why:

Fighting for the quad is a signifitiant part of the game. And knowing when the quad spawns is important to make this fight actually skill-based.
With random quad spawn it becomes more of a luck then skill. Which can be fun also but absolutely ruins the competitive part of the game.

So I'm [s]asking[/s] begging for a fixed time spawn at least on ladder servers.

http://www.forums.alientrap.local/viewtopic.php?t=4651

These to questions are different.
The one you've linked to asks if the powerups should be there at startup.
And imho they shouldn't. Becouse the team spawning near the quad would have an advantage. And that's pure random. => Bad.

Here i'm talking about respawn time. And I think it should be constant.

I think a very slight variation will add some interest, it will force people to adapt and compromise within the situation more. This takes more skill imo.

Sepelio wrote:I think a very slight variation will add some interest, it will force people to adapt and compromise within the situation more. This takes more skill imo.

The only way to know when quad will spawn now is to follow the on-screen indicator.

It begins flashing some 3 or 5 seconds before spawn.

So, before, if you had a mental or scripted timer you could organize in advance (say 10-20 seconds) and launch an assault for quad.

But now, with 3-5 sec notification it's basically about who's closer to quad point.

Skill in this? Give me a break.

alpha wrote:

Sepelio wrote:I think a very slight variation will add some interest, it will force people to adapt and compromise within the situation more. This takes more skill imo.

The only way to know when quad will spawn now is to follow the on-screen indicator.

It begins flashing some 3 or 5 seconds before spawn.

So, before, if you had a mental or scripted timer you could organize in advance (say 10-20 seconds) and launch an assault for quad.

But now, with 3-5 sec notification it's basically about who's closer to quad point.

Skill in this? Give me a break.

I see your point, its really just the difference between planning ahead and being forced to react on the fly. For team games the former is obviously more important.

LOL.

On most maps, you can get from any point to the quad in 5 seconds if you are skilled.

But sure, the time COULD be increased to 10. There just is no point.

On most maps, you can get from any point to the quad in 5 seconds if you are skilled.

1)"on most maps"
2)probably with low health, armor and bad weapons. Mostly randomized.

But sure, the time COULD be increased to 10. There just is no point.

I don't understand why it should have been randomized in the first place.

You know... game's prodictability is generaly a good thing for the gameplay.

Because lots of people were already using timers.

And if timer scripts give an advantage, it's unfair to those who play fair.

And if timer scripts give an advantage, it's unfair to those who play fair.

I don't see how is this unfair. Those people can also use timers.
And lot's of people were timing quads in their head.

You know. Aimbot is very unfair with the nex but it doesn't mean we should remove nex, right?

Waterlaz wrote:

And if timer scripts give an advantage, it's unfair to those who play fair.

I don't see how is this unfair. Those people can also use timers.
And lot's of people were timing quads in their head.

You know. Aimbot is very unfair with the nex but it doesn't mean we should remove nex, right?

This is moot, as far as my awareness goes there is ONE aimbot that works that few have access to. You should know by now theres plenty of stuff in place to prevent this sort of thing anyway. There just happens to be people that have extremely fast reactions and excellent aim without aimbots of any sort.

I'm just saying that if someone uses timer it doesn't mean we should randomize quad respawn. Remove defer if you wish.

People with timers don't spoil the game as much as randomized respawn spoils it.

PS can we at least have fixed spawn time at ladder servers?

Randomize initial spawn between 30 sec and 60 sec from start, after that same old 2 minute timer

Well, I want no nex anyway...

Why not just remove powerups in official matches? Then timers wouldn't matter, location of spawn wouldn't matter, location when notified that the powerup is spawning wouldn't matter. I'd rather play without powerups, but I don't really care that much.

Make timers official if the majority likes fixed.

Waterlaz wrote:People with timers don't spoil the game as much as randomized respawn spoils it.

Of course it does, you are using a timer yourself, that sure does not spoil *your* game.

Also, I know this point has been made a lot, but if something can be done to give your team an advantage, it does not mean you can use it and put the blame for unfairness on your opponents because they decided not to use the same hacks...
Timers, effect changes, fullbright hacks, wallhacks, aimbots... Where is the boundary between acceptable hacks and cheats?

The boundary is whether you can do it using the normally accessible methods of the game or not (i.e. cvars).

Then wallhacks are not a cheat. Same thing for r_showsurfaces etc.

Then wallhacks are not a cheat.

How can I wallhack with ingame methods?

Same thing for r_showsurfaces

Since when showsurfaces is a cheat?

Since augenkrebs

As for wallhack: as if we would tell you publicly.

divVerent wrote:As for wallhack: as if we would tell you publicly.

So says dear Fuhrer! He and his clan can use secret nexuiz hacks (colorprint, now wallhack, what else?). You can't! Obey or else!

1) Add feature X.
2) Spread the word.
3) Let people get used to it.
4) Declare it's a cheat.
5) ???
6) Profit!!!

My question is, what makes it so difficult to stop at step 1 and add some preventive measures that allow feature X to be used only when some cvar is set (sv_cheats, developer, if_i_set_this_i_am_a_cheater)? Is it because step 5 is just too much fun or what.

Oh and btw... there is one more thing this topic showed:
http://www.alientrap.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4651
People don't want randomized times. And that's pretty much it.
We can look at the pole here for cleaner resaults but you can get the idea from that topic.

alpha wrote:

divVerent wrote:As for wallhack: as if we would tell you publicly.

So says dear Fuhrer! He and his clan can use secret nexuiz hacks (colorprint, now wallhack, what else?). You can't! Obey or else!

Oh hi thar <3

Thanks for the hilarity.

He and his clan just set up this false topic to put some doubt into your suspicion: http://www.forums.alientrap.local/viewtopic.php?t=3939

parasti wrote:My question is, what makes it so difficult to stop at step 1 and add some preventive measures that allow feature X to be used only when some cvar is set (sv_cheats, developer, if_i_set_this_i_am_a_cheater)? Is it because step 5 is just too much fun or what.

Actually, it's so ridiculously easy, that reverting the prevention in the source would be even easier. So it's out of question.

So says dear Fuhrer! He and his clan can use secret nexuiz hacks (colorprint, now wallhack, what else?). You can't! Obey or else!

It's true! Ooooooowwwwwowowowowwwww it's so true...

/me breaks down in tears

Also, the color thingy was successfully attacked from multiple sides. It's leaked.

But I think people just don't want to share it with you.

Mr. Bougo wrote:Actually, it's so ridiculously easy, that reverting the prevention in the source would be even easier. So it's out of question.

And why would I revert it? I think you misunderstood. Somebody just said using r_showsurfaces is cheating; I often use r_showsurfaces because I'm on a GF4MX and most maps are ridiculously demanding, so basically that makes me a cheater without me even being aware of it. If I had to set "developer" or some other cvar to use r_showsurfaces, or even if the cvar description just said, "using this is cheating", I would not bother using it (actually in the case of r_showsurfaces, I would, but I would know I'm walking a thin line). Accusing legitimate players of cheating is simply not a good way to treat your community.

I didn't say you would cheat
But I didn't undersand what you meant. Yes, I agree that there should be more emphasis put on the fact that r_showsurfaces and friends are meant for debugging purposes.
I thought you wanted to have some kind of "anti-cheat" that would disable these cvars in some conditions (e.g. online games), but this would not stop a cheater I think.

alpha wrote:

divVerent wrote:As for wallhack: as if we would tell you publicly.

So says dear Fuhrer! He and his clan can use secret nexuiz hacks (colorprint, now wallhack, what else?). You can't! Obey or else!

Lol, last week you were the God of Nexuiz. You decided if something was "wanted" or "not wanted". Now you peddle yourself as an opressed serf. Look how quickly your "demenor" has changed, lol.