alpha wrote:

divVerent wrote:Show me a link to ONE positive meaningful gameplay related post by you on this forum.

http://forums.alientrap.local/viewtopic.php?p=56890#56890
http://forums.alientrap.local/viewtopic.php?p=63490#63490
http://forums.alientrap.local/viewtopic.php?p=62669#62669
http://forums.alientrap.local/viewtopic.php?p=61652#61652
http://forums.alientrap.local/viewtopic.php?p=60575#60575
http://forums.alientrap.local/viewtopic.php?p=60427#60427
http://forums.alientrap.local/viewtopic.php?p=60110#60110
http://forums.alientrap.local/viewtopic.php?p=59635#59635
http://forums.alientrap.local/viewtopic.php?p=59208#59208
http://forums.alientrap.local/viewtopic.php?p=59203#59203

Now, would you, please, cut off tundramagi-style bigotry towards me and let's have a civilized discussion ?

TundraMagi is not a bigoted map: both the red and the blue bases are identical save for colours.

If you're not able to traverse the cold wilderness between the two bases it is due to your lack of properly engaging the turrets of the opposing base before doing so. It is not due to any imbalance; existing, desired, or planned; between the two areas.

tundramagi wrote:TundraMagi is not a bigoted map

I was referring to your forum nickname, not the map

aha aha HA ah ha AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHaaaa
oh the irony

alpha wrote:

tundramagi wrote:TundraMagi is not a bigoted map

I was referring to your forum nickname, not the map

My nickname is MikeeUSA. Are you new here?
Perhaps at this time my current login is "tundramagi", but before that it was some other random word or phrase, and after this it will be another. Sometimes it's just random letters typed out untill I feel there should be a space or carraige return.

Throwing in some actualy knowledge into quad timing: Certainly most players do not use an external clock but do the math, where they add (or subtract,depending on incrementing/remaining map time display) 2 minutes. This, by itself, is the relatively easy part.

The skill that is involved in this are:
- to not forget to memorize the time when you hear it, especially when you are in a fight (I mean in case you are fighting at another place at the map and just hear the sound as background), as you have to do the calculation x seconds later when you have time to look at the clock again, and then you have to do 2 calculations, the 2 minutes calculation and then subtract/add x seconds to the seconds timer too

- actually remembering the time over a period of 2 minutes (yes, I do have problems to keep the time memorized, why?, because I also have to memorize a megahealth or armor respawn time, and too many times start messing with my brain) - this is probably the most important advantage of timers, that you can "forget" about that time and focus on other respawn times instead

- when you are in a lot of action, even if you still remember the timestamp when the quad comes again, it can happen that you are so busy that you simply "miss" it
a) either missing it totally, or
b) realizing that the current time is already too close to the timestamp - too little time left to prepare a good path/approach or do the proper preparation(getting health before) for getting the quad
Here a timer comes in handy as you can play sounds with it (sounds are the best notificators as you still manage to hear them in a fight), and you can play particular sounds 30 seconds before, 10, 5, 1 second before

You see, it's not a piece of cake to time the quad in real competitive play, as when you play you normally focus on other things. It's only a piece of cake if you did nothing else than timing the quad.

lol, I just started to learn to time the damn thing!

Anyhow, but a randomness of 5 seconds sounds really good!

I also appreciate the suggestion about a timer on the spawn points.
This would be ideal to have on a beginners server.

divVerent wrote:The whole point is that there is NO skill in making timer scripts, or putting a clock next to your screen, or use the ingame clock, or whatever.

I agree 120%. Its kinda depressing seeing these scripts going off and then reading the same ppl who use em arguing abt the skill involved. (tough it can be somewhat tragi-comical at map end (when team speak goes to all) and X ppls quad scripts go burping out to everyone xD).

How abt giving it +/- 10 sec (or so) random spawn each respawn and no notify?

tZork wrote:How abt giving it +/- 10 sec (or so) random spawn each respawn and no notify?

Vote results answer it. NO.

tZork wrote:Its kinda depressing seeing these scripts going off and then reading the same ppl who use em arguing abt the skill involved.

Kinda depressing seeing you getting owned by the same people all the time.

Interesting to see the poll result. Currently 9 vs 14. How many of the 14 are cheaters like alpha is?

Basically, the poll is too close to fifty-fifty to be conclusive. A compromise would be a just slight randomization, which is already being done and could even be reduced a little more. You timer using cheaters, just set your timer to 105 seconds and then you have 10 seconds time to get to the quad, and fight for it for up to 10 seconds till it finally spawns. Where is your problem? You are too noobish to hold a position for 10 seconds, but call yourself leader of the best clan? Ha!

divVerent wrote:Basically, the poll is too close to fifty-fifty

I'ts not even 40% for "yes", where did you pull 50/50 from ?

alpha wrote:

tZork wrote:How abt giving it +/- 10 sec (or so) random spawn each respawn and no notify?

Vote results answer it. NO.

tZork wrote:Its kinda depressing seeing these scripts going off and then reading the same ppl who use em arguing abt the skill involved.

Kinda depressing seeing you getting owned by the same people all the time.

So its less depressing getting owned by random ppl? That makes total sense, specially in the context of this thread! Anyway, grow up or be gone.

I like powerups randomized, it makes it equal for players that play with default nexuiz w/o any scripts or playing long sounds that will tell them when it will spawn 10 seconds before.
Often some dude join servers and only he have strength and newbies don't have slight chance to even smell it, only because he have some script installed :/
if you really need fixed time, announce it for everybody 5 second before it spawns to make it fair for ppl that play with default nexuiz settings

Don't understand my post (which you people seem to ignore, like everything I'm saying here) in a wrong way: I am FOR having an announcement of the strength. Simply for the reason that was mentioned before, giving everyone equal chances (people who know how to download a config and people who can't or don't want to).

Once having an announcement system, the discussion about having a respawn-jitter is super pointless ... I mean, for what have it jittered if it's announced anyway? At least it would be pointless if you read the next part:

Only thing I'd like to vote for is a higher amount of seconds for the announcement, e.g. already give hints like 15 seconds before, or even allow players to configure the amount of seconds they wish to be informed about the respawn (menu-setting). Could be placed at the same place in the HUD where the strength-counter (that is now only shown when you have it) is, e.g. showing negative seconds decreasing towards 0 (-15, -14 ....)

^
||
The same what I want.

But why announcing instead of keeping time until respawn on the hud? That would be much more comfortable. Random spawn was introduced not solely for preventing timers. There are other reasons.

I basically agree with GreEn`mArine. As long as the quad spawn is announced to everyone at least 10 seconds ahead, personally I don't (and I don't think anybody would) care if and how random it is.

What's the difference if you announce 10 secs or 2 minutes ahead?

alpha wrote:

tZork wrote:How abt giving it +/- 10 sec (or so) random spawn each respawn and no notify?

Vote results answer it. NO.

Alpha: you don't have SVN commit access, you don't make any decisions. How do you like that alpha: that you can stamp and scream and complain and make no difference. You don't make the decision and there is nothing that you can do about that.

Your NO is worth nothing. I wonder if your mentally challenged, trying to control development of a game by... well whatever it is that you do (pissing off the devs.) Maybe you think they'll get pissed off and leave nexuiz (and thus not change it from whatever pristine state you like it in) rather than just banning you.

alpha wrote:

tZork wrote:Its kinda depressing seeing these scripts going off and then reading the same ppl who use em arguing abt the skill involved.

Kinda depressing seeing you getting owned by the same people all the time.

Next time he'll tell you how he's so distinguished with all the research papers he's written, all the women he has, and that (by the way) you're just a "pathetic videogame nerd".

Alien wrote:^
||
The same what I want.

But why announcing instead of keeping time until respawn on the hud? That would be much more comfortable. Random spawn was introduced not solely for preventing timers. There are other reasons.

What if the map has more then one strength pwrupp?

I do agree that announcing + random spawning makes little sense. Perhaps random + better _taken_ announcement could be a nice option here.

GreEn`mArine wrote:Don't understand my post (which you people seem to ignore, like everything I'm saying here) in a wrong way: I am FOR having an announcement of the strength. Simply for the reason that was mentioned before, giving everyone equal chances (people who know how to download a config and people who can't or don't want to).

Once having an announcement system, the discussion about having a respawn-jitter is super pointless ... I mean, for what have it jittered if it's announced anyway? At least it would be pointless if you read the next part:

Only thing I'd like to vote for is a higher amount of seconds for the announcement, e.g. already give hints like 15 seconds before, or even allow players to configure the amount of seconds they wish to be informed about the respawn (menu-setting). Could be placed at the same place in the HUD where the strength-counter (that is now only shown when you have it) is, e.g. showing negative seconds decreasing towards 0 (-15, -14 ....)

I like that idea, but there currently can be more than one quad on a map

The idea of the pre-announcement is focusing action on/towards the quad spawnpoint before it spawns. Five seconds are good for that, ten seconds would be too - except that a waypointsprite cannot currently show the remaining seconds (NOTE: I want to add healthbars to sprites for Onslaught anyway, so these could be used for a countdown), so an overly early pre-announcement would be annoying.

Well, from my experience I can say that I plan (prepare) my attacks about 15 seconds before. Trying to get some more health, probably trying to spam out the "noobs" (who are there way too early) from the outside and then I still have 2-3 seconds before I attack. So 5 seconds is really too little time to prepare.

I see that there is a problem with maps having more than 1 quad. The suggestion I have is:
- for now keep it to a 10 or 15 seconds announcement
- once overlay-sprites are available, use them to show the quad remaining time. These can be configurable via CSQC, as I suggested, so that the player could setup in the menu the number of seconds left before respawn-time (and if that timestamp hasn't been reached yet, the sprite isn't shown either). This way the sprite wouldn't annoy anyone beyond the time you really want it to see anyway, e.g. in the last 20-30 seconds before quad-respawn

I'd like randomized start spawn at least if there will be a counter/announcement. Instead of running to the strength and getting it to win with shotguns, you'd have to stock up and then defend yourself until you can actually grab it. So there would be some skill in how you take the strength. (hide and attack when they go for it, stand on quad spawn, etc) Maybe even let them get the strength and blow up one of their rockets in their face?

Anyway, I voted for randomized strength spawn, since it doesn't really matter. You still can time the strength if you wanted to. (Just knock off 5 seconds {down to 1 minute 55 seconds} and then you'd wait maximum of 10 seconds.) All randomizing it will do is make timers less effective; it adds some doubt.

/me sits back and relaxes, seeing how green marine is winning this one for him anyway

High five GM

tZork wrote:

Alien wrote:^
||
The same what I want.

But why announcing instead of keeping time until respawn on the hud? That would be much more comfortable. Random spawn was introduced not solely for preventing timers. There are other reasons.

What if the map has more then one strength pwrupp?

I do agree that announcing + random spawning makes little sense. Perhaps random + better _taken_ announcement could be a nice option here.

The most logical thing would be to display the time left until the earlier one, then switch to the later one, etc... or to have some sort of user controllable list with scrollbar on hud, which would be nice addition overall. I'm not against anouncement, anouncement is great but having accurate time left representation is always better. We could have both.


I haven't heard the answer why full length timers are BAD, but 5 - 10 sec announcements are GOOD? IMHO, there is no good reason not to allow user to configure whether he wants full length timers or let him define time until powerup respawn, when he should be informed about in on the screen or making an anouncement or doing both.

The second question is: can CSQC handle sound playing? If it can, why it is so hard to make multiple announcements for each powerup? (I'm not talking about annoucements for 11 sec, 37 sec, ..., but more like 10, 15, 30, 45, 60, 90).

It's also lots of code needed for that for almost no gain.

For game action, it's better to focus action on the respawns than to display the time all the time (and the noobs then don't even know where the powerup is). Sprites really are the way to go there.

Anyway, pre-announcement is now 10 seconds, and a build bar is shown near the powerup so you know how "done" it is.

divVerent wrote:Anyway, pre-announcement is now 10 seconds, and a build bar is shown near the powerup so you know how "done" it is.

Will be tested and reported by clan.

Wanted to test but lazy dog filter does not show anything up today (and on sunday).

I shut it down as nobody's using it anyway any more.

divVerent wrote:I shut it down as nobody's using it anyway any more.

I would, but the lag I get is just too bad to accurately test anything. There's only a few servers where I can get days of low ping, probably all close by to me.

Waterlaz wrote:I've noticed that svn nexuiz spawns quad at slightly different times now.
And personaly I believe it's not a good idea. And here's why:

Fighting for the quad is a signifitiant part of the game. And knowing when the quad spawns is important to make this fight actually skill-based.
With random quad spawn it becomes more of a luck then skill. Which can be fun also but absolutely ruins the competitive part of the game.

So I'm [s]asking[/s] begging for a fixed time spawn at least on ladder servers.

That's a load of crap. Powerups only *might* give an advantage to those who keep track of the respawn time, but most of the people are not even bothered to keep track. In fact, I believe not being focused on it and just staying close to the spawnpoint of the item in question, killing off as many opponents as you can gives you a far better chance of getting the item. Keeping track of the spawntime has little to do with skills imo. As 90% of the people pick up powerups randomly, I'd say spawntime should be random as well to keep the game fair and square. Getting a powerup should be as random as possible, how you're USING it (Or counterfeiting it) is the challenge at hand for the powerup user or his opponent. THAT's where you must use your skills.

Personally I dislike powerups alltogether, they give too big of an advantage, especially in minstagib which I mainly play.