Yeah, typefragging is ok, but not frag someone who types is respect. Both are good and both are individual choices.
I generally don't typefrag but I sometimes do. If I know I can get away or know that that person doesn't pose a threat to me even if he wasn't typing I leave them alone.
But if it's someone who I know is a threat, I will dispose off.

However sometimes it just depends on in what mood I am.

But clearly paperclips, what you see as asshatry isn't asshatry to me. Thus why I think typefragging is ok. I'm starting to think it boils down to how sensitive one is.

@paperclips: IDLYSFIOOYO = I don't like you so figure it out on your own. (No really, that's what it is. I invented it, steal it and I keeeel you.)

BTW guys, seriously you're still on this subject? IMO it should just be: "You're the one who was typing, deal with it."

Samual wrote:BTW guys, seriously you're still on this subject? IMO it should just be: "You're the one who was typing, deal with it."

No other fun threads to waste my time on, you know.

I don't usually type frag on purpose, even though I play CTF most of the time.

But I really don't see how anything can be considered wrong with typefrags, since it is the only clean solution to a situation.

Because alot of typing noobs when they see you probably reflexively stop typing and start shooting as fast as possible, which for them means it takes about as long for you to notice they are typing and start to move one, so that they end up unintentionally backstabbing you.

And then there are alot of people who intentionally backstab as well I believe.

So the most fair, clean and sensible solution is for everyone to follow game theory here and just shoot all hostiles, regardless of circumstance.

ai wrote:Why is it that people even see typefragging as a bad thing? What do people expect when they play a game, not to be killed?
Come on people, sure the Nexuiz community is friendly but to associate the behavior of ALL players on the servers as 'Nexuiz community' is stupid. What happens on the servers is part of the game. Yes, people should still be nice and all but that one who thought that typefragging is "rude" should honestly be typefragged. It is a _game_.

Typefrags are ok. People who cannot handle being killed in a game shouldn't play the game.

It being rude, but also being acceptable in a game don't exclude each other.

It is simply a matter of respect. Typefragging is nothing more or less than showing disrespect which is quite normal in such a game (but this doesn't make it a good thing). The only things ban-worthy are "backstabbing" (showing the typing sign so people ignore me, then fragging them as they turn away) and "typekill-faking" (showing the typing sign right before a rocket hits me so the other gets the typefrag sound and possibly other punishment).

So yes, I can handle being typefragged, but it lowers my opinion of the guy who does it (when done repeatedly, that is). And I think it's the same for most others here.

ai wrote:1. Typefrags doesn't always mean one extra/free frag. It can simply mean that people do not trust them and that they wanna get rid of them as not to be backstabbed or risk jeopardizing their base security.

Inside your base, or near the enemy flag, or even when the typer carries the flag, it's a whole different story. When you have a good reason BESIDES the guy being a simple and free frag, sure, frag him. Which also means: if you want to chat, go to a safer place than where action concentrates. I do NOT consider this a real typefrag then... if you stand in the enemy base near their flag post, and start typing, don't be surprised if an enemy kills you as he assumes you're waiting for the flag to come back. Also, a common rule from other games is that for typing, you should face the wall so people can see you're not part of the action at the moment (by this, the enemy can also see that you aren't going to backstab).

But, if someone is e.g. at the back side of HIS base of facing worlds, looks against the building, and has the typing sign, and you then walk there and frag him, it IS a clear evil typefrag.

ai wrote:Yeah, typefragging is ok, but not frag someone who types is respect. Both are good and both are individual choices.
I generally don't typefrag but I sometimes do. If I know I can get away or know that that person doesn't pose a threat to me even if he wasn't typing I leave them alone.
But if it's someone who I know is a threat, I will dispose off.

But well, then you are doing the very right thing. When typing, just make it appear to others that you are no threat to them. Do not start typing in the enemy base, holding their flag, standing on a nex spawn, facing the teleport to get to that room, and then whine about the evil typefraggers.

And when others see you're not a threat, they're less likely to frag you - just like you are writing now.

I wonder if the opinions which fight each other here are so much different at all...

I support typefragging in all it's forms.

i like the idea idea of just having a message when you typefrag. maybe there could also be a message when you backstab, say if you make a frag less than 5 seconds after typing. that way, if there is someone that is continually typefraging or backstabbing (which IMO is the only time it's a problem), they can be dealt with accordingly.

i generally try not to type frag. i have done it by accident though. i got called a "typefragging bitch"

Yoda almighty wrote:maybe there could also be a message when you backstab, say if you make a frag less than 5 seconds after typing.

Bad idea. For instance, I have been known to type in my base and generally chatting, then an enemy shows and at the moment I finished and I kill him within seconds. Then I would get the backstabbing title even though I didn't know there was an enemy till the very last moment.
Plus with more people on the server and chaos all around same situation would probably appear there.

The more I think about it now, the more it seems like in CTF at least, you need to shoot typists. And when you type, you need to be able to shoot at any time without it being considered backstabbing. There just is no other way that won't imbalance the game.

Because typing is important for team communication, but it is not more important than eliminating a dangerous local threat. So both the typist and other player need to be able to go to blows immediately. The typist should just slam his 'enter' key mid sentence and start shooting.

An enemy in your base could steal your flag, an enemy in his own base will interfere with your flag carrier and an enemy in no man's land can be a threat to either.

The only exception is someone in the distant periphery, assuming he has no sniper weapon or the map isn't too open and assuming there is an out of the way spot on that map in the first place. And then he is imbalancing the game against his own team by taking himself so far out of action just to chat (unless his team has an extra player).

And finally CTF isn't scored based on frags anyway, so this isn't really a "free kill".

how about a pause type button? if an enemy is in front of you, and you are typing, you can temporarily save it, and defend yourself, and when you are done, you can start typing where you left off.

That's not a bad idea.

Another is that if you try to start shooting with a left or right mouse click, it cancels the message or pauses it, instantly restoring your movement and firing controls to you.


So basically, the idea is if there is any technical solution to this problem, it is by making typists less vulnerable and thus fair game and incapable of backstabbing (since you are already shooting at them without remorse and expecting the same in return).

write with console then

This is not a bad idea indeed. That would eliminate the backstabbing problem, I think. Though I'd most probably still like to be polite and not to frag typos. But that's my fault then and I can deal with it

A solution like this would make chatting more convenient and easier in general. You'd of course have to be able to disable such function via cvar client-side.

Edit: Oh, and left-clicking should not immediately shoot, of course, but restore movement and fire controls.

But what if you use team chat and fire and want to use global chat after that? What about preconfigured chat binds used while half-typed message is still in cache? I think in those cases the cached content should be either discarded or stored until the next time the respective chat command is placed. Like this:

Player starts to type into team-chat, then fires before pressing return, does some fighting, then says globally "woha, how did you do that?" via global chat, informs the team that he/she is going to defend via bind, and then starts to team-chat again, where his half-typed message is being displayed to him again.

That way we would need most probably a cache for team chat as well as for global chat, since you could be interrupted while saying "woha, how did you do that?" as well. I could imagine that hitting "esc" while chatting would be a good way to instantly delete the whole message, which might be also quite useful then if the half-typed contents is already outdated.

Another edit (I get quite enthusiastic about this idea...): The most simple solution would most probably be to implement extra chat commands (global, team and maybe even "tell") that provide this functionality, in order not to interfere with the existing chat commands. That way we could leave everything as it is and add the functionality without problems. Every player may choose to use the extended command or the standard command for his chat binds.

i concur with Flying Steel

In CTF any reason for Chat is a reason to be fragged.

i mean, any idlers for more than, say, 10 seconds should be kicked to spectate mode.
anything else is imbalancing.
people who can't get their message across that window should be banished, er, punished.

btw:
oh well, and picking the flag should light a message 'You have the Flag', just in case.
or any other sign to show you what you are carrying.
(eliminating all those 'wtf- i had the flag?'- posts, - 'hey xyz, you have the flag, now cap!')
[few are playing in 3rd person mode, where you can that you actually carry)

[quote="fronten"btw:
oh well, and picking the flag should light a message 'You have the Flag', just in case.
or any other sign to show you what you are carrying.
(eliminating all those 'wtf- i had the flag?'- posts, - 'hey xyz, you have the flag, now cap!')
[few are playing in 3rd person mode, where you can that you actually carry)[/quote]

big enough imo:
(click)

There are multiple patches on dev.alientrap.org adding a centerprint for picked up flags.

To eliminate the frustration of being typefragged while holding many weapons and having much health and armour, I simply kill myself. I bound "g" as suicide, and use it often. The 5 second delay is my most hated enemy, since if I fall off the edge while doing a trickjump or whatever, I cannot kill myself to speed the process. As long as you don't autospawn after death, killing yourself is good.

fronten wrote:i mean, any idlers for more than, say, 10 seconds should be kicked to spectate mode.
anything else is imbalancing.

You can't seriously believe that? People have to go to bathrooms, check on kids, check the kitchen etc. There will always be people doing something else when playing, 10 second window is too small.
Some people bring down the console when they go afk, that would bring up the chat symbol. This 'feature' would be the most annoying feature in history. Besides, sometimes it does take very long to type something, not everyone are skilled or fast enough to say what they want to.
I sometimes write very long lines and not all of the time do I type fast, especially if I did many typos I had to correct.

PS. I vote for a better icon when you are carrying the flag. The current 'pickuped' flag symbol is the same as a 'fallen on the ground' symbol. At first I had a very hard time knowing where the hell the symbol for a picked up flag was and was wondering if I had it.
IMO, the old version was much better visual representative in this matter. I vote for 3 different symbols, one 'fallen', one when you have the flag and one when a teammate has the flag.
Maybe even adding a centerprint that lasts a second or two when you pick up the flag or a print somewhere near the flag symbols saying you have the flag.

yes yes yes, but what about the idea of clicking fire button inmidst of chat, returning to fight, and resuming to type the message afterwards? I kinda happen to like that. Not demanding stuff, but wanting to know what other people think about it.

If you managed to collect lots of weapons and suddenly have to check for the kids or stuff then I say get to spectator mode or accept to get killed. I mean, the weapons are not THAT precious, are they? And except for your armor your health will be below the respawning value anyway, when you return.

And I agree that the "carrying the flag" icon could be a bit more expressive. But in my opinion that should go into another topic.

halogene wrote:yes yes yes, but what about the idea of clicking fire button inmidst of chat, returning to fight, and resuming to type the message afterwards? I kinda happen to like that. Not demanding stuff, but wanting to know what other people think about it.

If you managed to collect lots of weapons and suddenly have to check for the kids or stuff then I say get to spectator mode or accept to get killed. I mean, the weapons are not THAT precious, are they? And except for your armor your health will be below the respawning value anyway, when you return.

And I agree that the "carrying the flag" icon could be a bit more expressive. But in my opinion that should go into another topic.

I share the opinion about the "carrying the flag" symbol nonetheless

My rules are simple:

I do not typefrag unless the enemy typing is very near our flagroom or is the enemy FC.

I do not care if I'm typefragged... at all (especially if I'm FC). As soon as I stop to type I pretty much expect to be killed. However, I appreciate those who don't (most will hit me once, hear the typefrag warning scream then move on). In return I backtrack a fair bit the opposite direction after I finish typing to avoid killing the guy who spared me. The result is respect between the parties involved.

All I ask is to please don't hate on those of us who chat a lot. We play the game for fun (and half of the fun is seriously the banter). Not for the scores, nor for winning. If you think something is wrong with that, just go ahead and typefrag to your heart's content (though don't blame us if you get the reputation of being an asshole) and don't read the chat. dammit.

You know.... there's a reason to everything....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1loyjm4SOa0

I used to avoid type fragging, but given how many players I've seen abusing the bubble I will shamelessly frag anybody and I expect others to do the same to me.

@4m
LMAO nice pic

I am against any sort of punishment/immunity/actions when it comes to typefragging, due to the reasons stated above. I like the current system where the player hears a sound similar to the teamdamage sound. Maybe a "Don't typefrag!" message when you hit someone when they are typing would also be okay.
Personally, I do not typefrag. Also, when someone passes me by, I ignore them for their honorable actions. However, typing with the frag or typing in my base will be met by swift elimination. I fully expect the same when I do that. Some people will wait for you to stop typing, those people are asses, and I usually wait them out.
Honestly, typefragging, except in the above circumstances, is not acceptable.