Did anyone of you try the grappling hook? If you did, you probably noticed that it is slow and feels like hanging from a solid pole.

Well, I tried to make another grappling hook physics which basically feels like a "rubber rope".

If you want to try it online, you can connect to 141.2.16.3 "[RBI] new grappling hook test" and check it out.

The source is available as a patch to the current SVN on http://mensa.ath.cx/~polzer/temp/nexpat ... -hook.diff

If you want to use it, note: the top of the diff contains cvar settings you should also execute then and allows for toggling between the original and my grappling hook physics.

Have fun with it - and what do you think of it?

And...

• Would you like it to break when the rope hits a wall? I would not, but it would be more realistic.
• Is it too slow? Too fast? Other cvars you would want to change?
• Would you like different physics for it?

The graphics is not changed by my patch... yes, the current grapple hook visual sucks, but it works

I was playing on it tonight, it's very good. I play as doomsknight. The tricks you can pull are very good.

I don't think the rope should break on hitting things. A more complex thing would be for it to wrap round so your movement gets changed by the rope hitting something. This would be more realistic but without seeing it working, I've no idea whether it would be very playable.

Ed wrote:I don't think the rope should break on hitting things. A more complex thing would be for it to wrap round so your movement gets changed by the rope hitting something. This would be more realistic but without seeing it working, I've no idea whether it would be very playable.

Plus it would be quite hard to add in QC. And if that is not hard enough, imagine a moving platform crossing the rope

Yeah, that would be way to complex. I think the way you've made it is enough for the moment. A light, stretchable rope which can pass through things.

This breaking would be bad i guess. The rubber hook was quite fun to test. Would indeed be nice to have it included.

I made a second version of the hook which now breaks if its endpoint is shot too much (currently: one Nex shot or two rockets). Should work well against hook campers.

http://mensa.ath.cx/~polzer/temp/nexpatches/

divVerent wrote:I made a second version of the hook which now breaks if its endpoint is shot too much (currently: one Nex shot or two rockets). Should work well against hook campers.

http://mensa.ath.cx/~polzer/temp/nexpatches/

Thats cool!

Hook campers don't seem to get far.

The server is getting quite a lot of use. Many people don't seem to understand the grappling hook changes or even that there was a grappling hook in the first place. More messages might help.

I'm now wondering about grappling hook stunt jumping maps where you have to swing between beams or similar to avoid dying, might be fun.

Ed wrote:Hook campers don't seem to get far.

The server is getting quite a lot of use. Many people don't seem to understand the grappling hook changes or even that there was a grappling hook in the first place. More messages might help.

Yes, I think I will make automated server spam every five minutes...

I'm now wondering about grappling hook stunt jumping maps where you have to swing between beams or similar to avoid dying, might be fun.

You can already do quite much on nexdm16... I think I should make some demos. Too bad I don't know a working way to convert demos to videos... the problem is that mencoder always messes up the A-V sync a bit.

Hey, I like it! Mhm mhm I like it

BUT: Campers Can you change a bit: no hooking in the sky? Thats boring... you can camp there and shoot everyone..

Tenn wrote:BUT: Campers Can you change a bit: no hooking in the sky? Thats boring... you can camp there and shoot everyone..

It's already supposed to be that way, but the check whether it's attached to a skybox doesn't seem to work with q3bsp...

Tenn wrote:Hey, I like it! Mhm mhm I like it

BUT: Campers Can you change a bit: no hooking in the sky? Thats boring... you can camp there and shoot everyone..

I think this is only a real problem on nexdm18_1on1remix... and I wonder why this map has "1on1" in its name anyway. On normal nexdm18, these camping spots don't exist.

And this "shooting people down" is specifically to be able to do something about campers in the sky... two sloppily aimed rockets or one well-aimed Nex shot and the "hanger" is back on the floor (or in the void) and he gets falling damage (or dies). If this kills him, you get the frag.

Maybe I should reduce the damage it takes to break the hook so that one rocket or two or three laser shots are enough. Have to think about it, but it's just a cvar...

Ok, Ive just tryed this in the "1on1" nexdm18 map.

But good work, again

Hm... someone complained about the hook to break...

what do you think? Should it be possible to break the hook by shooting its endpoint? I would say yes, but it should not be too easy. Currently it takes one very well aimed Nex shot or two rockets. I am thinking of increasing it to two Nex shots or three rockets, but am not sure if this would make shooting it down too hard. I think the hook is a movement device and not a camping device, so it should not be used for a long time anyway... and I don't think many players can hit it easily with the Nex when it's just being used for two or three seconds while being involved in other firefights.

I would say yes, too.. But only the Endpoint? Would it be better, if any player hit any part of the rope - and then it break?

Tenn wrote:I would say yes, too.. But only the Endpoint? Would it be better, if any player hit any part of the rope - and then it break?

That's not really possible, because the rope isn't really existent. It's just an effect that is drawn and therefor it can't be damaged.
It might be possible to use an "invisible" rope to do the damage calculations but i think shooting at the rope would make things too easy and the hook would become useless.

Thats right to. Leave it by the endpoint

This server is now being used by that laser camper and all round prick, dru. I would suggest that something gets done about it. You may say that with the grappling hook you can't die from falling off a spacemap but he uses the laser all of the time, generally being a complete twat.

As there is a grappling hook, there is no need for a laser, you can grapple places instead of laser there.

Ed wrote:This server is now being used by that laser camper and all round prick, dru. I would suggest that something gets done about it.

That do you want us to do? Get rid of the laser in spacemaps? I'm not sure its a good idea to have such changes 'only because of' / 'just for' 3 maps.. I suppose you have to do the same or just be better then him

esteel wrote: I suppose you have to do the same or just be better then him

Yeah, /me got no probs w dru. He never harmed me btw...

esteel wrote:

Ed wrote:This server is now being used by that laser camper and all round prick, dru. I would suggest that something gets done about it.

That do you want us to do? Get rid of the laser in spacemaps? I'm not sure its a good idea to have such changes 'only because of' / 'just for' 3 maps.. I suppose you have to do the same or just be better then him

"Do the same" thats finding the problem right there. You have no freaking choice but to do the same, thats whats ruining the maps.

tChr wrote:

esteel wrote:

Ed wrote:This server is now being used by that laser camper and all round prick, dru. I would suggest that something gets done about it.

That do you want us to do? Get rid of the laser in spacemaps? I'm not sure its a good idea to have such changes 'only because of' / 'just for' 3 maps.. I suppose you have to do the same or just be better then him

"Do the same" thats finding the problem right there. You have no freaking choice but to do the same, thats whats ruining the maps.

What usually helps against those is hanging from below the map for some time or just not respawning for half a minute. He will get bored of it - just like any camper gets bored when nobody goes to his camping spot any more. But this does not work if there are too many players on the map...

Plus, the laser is part of the game - and the element what makes space maps more interesting (like pushmoddm1). However, it is possible to abuse it, just like the hook can be abused. But nobody has to enable laser or hook on his server - it can be switched off - but IMHO it's part of Nexuiz, just like the BFG is part of Quake 2 and many people hate it although it is easily possible to hide from it or even to outrun it.

esteel wrote:Get rid of the laser in spacemaps?

No. It is not that he is using the laser to despatch people off into space. He uses the laser on non-space maps just to piss people off.

What I was suggesting is that when the grappling hook is enabled, there is less point in the laser as you can recover from being thrown over the edge and can get anywhere anyway, you might as well disable the laser when the grappling hook is enabled. This can be left up to sys admins to do.

I think there is far more skill in using other weapons to throw people over the edge. The rocket launcher does it very well but you have to put more effort in.

I made a demo about using the grappling hook.

The low quality (AVI, MPEG-4, MP3, 27MB) version can be downloaded via HTTP at http://www.savefile.com/files/2198669

The high quality (OGM, Theora, Vorbis, 97MB) version can be downloaded via BitTorrent, the (trackerless) torrent is available at http://www.savefile.com/files/2348631 and http://fragtory.net/?q=node/258. BitTorrent 4.1 and above should be able to work with that. It should play back fine in VLC and MPlayer.

Wow, great one. Artistic!!!

I could perhaps also upload the high quality version as two split files on savefile.com, but I don't think they will like that...

Another link to get the high quality Theora version:

http://www.bigupload.com/d=3DB0C81B

Excuse the 30s timer...

Hey all. Glad people are working on my simple old hook (it couldn't be more minimalistic, so it's good to see improvements)

I haven't gotten to test the new hook yet, but I have a few comments from what I've read:

1) A fake form of hook wrapping could be done fairly easily, if you make the hook attach to anything that crosses its beam (this may or may not be good, it would require some play testing). Thus, if you drop downward while flying and the beam crosses a wall, then it will attach to that wall from then on. If you swing around a bend, each time the beam/wire would supposedly wrap around the corner, it really just re-attaches to the new surface. If a moving platform or player crosses the beam, then you're in for a ride.

To do this, traceline from the player to the current attachment point. If the traceline fails to reach it, re-attach to the new location the traceline hit.

2) I think that 1/2 or 1 rocket damage should be all that's needed to dislodge a hook. After all, if you're hanging around with the hook and someone shoots you, you should be ready to hook to another surface as soon as possible (staying still = foolish), and it shouldn't be so immensely hard to detach them anyway. This creates a cat-and-mouse game of detaching the player and trying to kill him before he can hook to something else & get away, and detaching them disrupts their aim & focus.
The other reason is that two rockets or a nex blast seems really high! If I have to fire two rockets or I need to aim to hit with the nex, I'm not going to aim for the hook; I'm going to aim for the player. If I can get both with the same rocket, then I serve two goals. It's very effective to shoot the wall because that's harder to dodge, and it should probably detach his hook in addition to damaging him, and force him to stay on his toes, instead of being able to put all his focus into sniping back.
That's just my opinion though. I don't play near as much as I should, and my comments really should be taken with a grain of salt, as they say.

The best way is to find a suitable default and make sure it's configurable in the menu, so servers can set it as they like OR it can become map-configurable (some maps have well-established hooks, other maps force players to really stay on their toes).

3) That would suck to have a player who abuses the hook or laser just to be annoying, but I figure the best you can do is just forge ahead and have fun despite their efforts (though that can be challenging at times). Such creatures will always be around, and altering features isn't always the answer.

4) Just for fun, I recommend combining the hook with features like damage-boosted Laser-Guided rockets in a space map. It's quite entertaining chasing down friends with your rockets as they hook around the map for cover. Makes a good game of tag, I suppose.