I'd like to start by recommending that people read the "How to play CTF" sticky since it has some good information about CTF roles and strategies.

As "How to play CTF" points out attackers tend to end up with higher scores than defenders since they get 20 points per flag capture. What if the scoring system were changed a bit to better represent the contribution of defenders to the team.

One approach is to award additional frags when an enemy is fragged within a certain radius of the flag. Another is to award additional points to players that frag enemies who have flag even if they aren't the player to return the flag.

Part of what I'm assuming is that ideally the scoring system is calibrated so that each player's score is reflective of his contribution to his team; and maybe that's controversial. It's a tricky goal since changing the scoring system may change what the ideal behavior is that is to be rewarded.

Yes thats a good idea. Currenty the only bonus defenders get are 5 points for returning the flag. Maybe those point changes should be done for something like 2.5 so that they can be balanced for the 'next big' release then..

Maybe fragging the flagcarrier, returning the flag and fragging someone near the flag and flagcarrier should give extra points so defending and protecting people get more points too. But then again the frag limits might have to be raised. And those changes also would need a seperate capture counter which will not happen very soon as it needs several indepth changes so maybe 2.5 is not even realistic for such a change.

I think the defenders gets to many points, like it is now. If 1 team only defends they win.

Fragging a flag carrier defenetly should give points. I've seen some insane resues where the flag carrier is nexed from all over the map..

However the part about one team only defending will winn is also true cause of the 5 points for flag return.

My suggestions, from the to of my head, not very thought thrugh:

Getting the flag is 1 point.
capturing the flag is 20 points.
capturing the flag with time record is 25 points.
Killing someone is 0 (!!) points, unless the person is close to your flag, no matter if your flag is at base or in the run, in that case, killing the enemy is 1 point if somewhat close, 2 points of close (this will also discourage sniping)
returning the flag could also be dependent on the distance to the home base, if the flag is very close to base, only 1 point for return (that would fix the defending only thing) and increasing with distance to a max of 5 points.

just my quick ideas.

No points should be given for kills unless it is the flag carrier being killed.

Dave wrote:No points should be given for kills unless it is the flag carrier being killed.

that would kill the entire points for defenders idea i like mine better

I like tChr's ideas as a temporarily solution till (if ever ) the scoring system will change completely. Where you get 0 points for killing someone not close to flag. Though IMO that is discouraging to defend which is controversial of this thread

IMO the final scoring system should count flag captures and also use a capturelimit and the timelimit only to end the map. The players get points (frags) for several tasks. Fragging should still get them one frag as normal, fragging someone near your flag or flagcarrier should give them assist points(frags) i think 2 are used in other games. Capturing and returning the flag should also give points 20/5 are used in other games.
Problem is just that the capture points can only be displayed with huge changes OR when ClientSideQuakeC does finally work.

Changing it to give 0 points for normal frags right now would spoil the teamplay even more then it does anyway. Playing neither defender nor attacker but a supporting role will then be totaly unattractive!

To get more points, I have been letting people get the flag first before I shoot them, so I can return the flag. Of course, that is risky because sometimes they get away with the flag if I don't kill them. In general though, it has increased my overall score. If I am playing defense, I don't make nearly as many points as the primary offensive players on my team.

So, I think Xoltra's suggestion is a good one. The points should be awarded based on what actions are helping the team to win. To "win" in CTF means to capture the flag more times than the enemy team. Keeping the enemy from taking your flag is vital in CTF and should be awarded points appropriately.

As someone pointed out earlier in this thread, a team could just go on defense and win the whole game that way. I dont't think there is a problem with that. I just think it is more difficult to win that way...because it takes time, and it is risky. If you focus 100% on defense and you slip up then the enemy can gain a lot of points very quickly through flag captures.

Even though a team can win by only defending, there is still a huge advantage to a team that focuses on offense...because flag captures score the greatest points....which is good beause that is the primary objective with CTF.

I just think that killing people in proximity of your own flag in your own base should bring more than 1 frag point. Give defenders a little more incentive.

Well honestly, I'm against winning on anything but flag captures. Of course I know with the current system there's no way it can change. But in future reference you should only be able to get 1 point each flag capture and the limit of flag captures would of course then be set with the server. You know, the standard pick-any-commercial-game-with-ctf-option game.

But other than that, I agree that defenders too should be able to win, but flag captures would give lot more points of course, thus ending the game faster.

Nah frags and stuff should count but there should a seperate capture counter and also the game should be stoped by time and capture limit. But this requires some engine changes first but it shall happen some day

esteel wrote:Nah frags and stuff should count but there should a seperate capture counter...

Yeah, that's what I had in mind.