I had an idea today...
Since electro is already suchs a weird weapon ... why don't we let it implode ? (instead of pushing away target from the explosion it attracts them toward the explosion)

It's easy to change this using g_balance_electro_*_force -400.
Like the idea or not ? could be fun ... Question is how it will turn out in gameplay ... should be intresting ? no ?

Hmm on the crylink this gives some VERRY intresting restults ... makes it actually somewhat usable ... (unless you dont want the enemy close to you

It would be kinda cool, especially if multiple players could be forced towards it and have damage caused just by them hitting each other.

I think the electro is already a very good weapon but when you say this is cool on the crylink its worth some serious testing. Sounds interesting for sure.

it doesn't make the weapon better or worse. But it makes it differnt ... and it can be both positive and negative depending on the weapon caracteristics ...

Random ranting about the crylink: it suxx, the worst weapon of all. Maybe becouse I can't use it. Or I dunno, I just can't hit anything with it.
The crylink should have a different style (my first vote would be yes, shaft, but I know most of the devs hate shaft).
Or if some experienced crylinker knows the correct way of using the weapon, please tell us!

I think most of us want to replace Crylink with a Shaft. The problem is to make a nice Shaft effect

Ontopic: I would love to test imploding Electro if a server had it

Sorry lad i don't know what a shaft is ... Link ?

Shaft is the alternate old-school nam eof the lightning gun.

I'm gunna say implode because I find that when it explodes it's useless because of the fact that it doesn't explode enough, or it doesn't go fast enough. Interesting idea though.

It explodes a great amount if you combine primary and secondary fire.. shoot some balls on the ground, stand in the middle and fire away primary and BLAM!!! you're gone
I think the electro is fine, though it would be nice to see how that implode would work, but crylink is another matter, IMO it needs change.

Instead of reengineering existing weapons to satisfy our cravings for new strategies, why not actually create a new weapon?

I remember when nexuiz 1.0 came out, there was a promise that the then-current implementation of nexuiz was but a sample of the game's power, that its true power was in the number of mods that it would spin off, and that this was especially true of the weapon system. Yet in the entire history of the game's existence, no one has added a single new weapon.

So I humbly suggest that somebody more skilled than I actually create a new weapon using existing, past, or unused models. You can be as creative or mundane as you like - if you just want to make something that you shoot to do straightforward damage, go for it. If you want something that has strange side-effects and combos like the electro, that'd be great too. If you want to steal from existing work, well that's why this project is open-source, isn't it? Why doesn't someone turn the grappling hook into a weapon item instead of an innate ability - sort of like the way the laser is not "built-in" to the character but supplied as an external tool? That way access to it could be controlled a bit more (e.g., it doesn't have to be supplied by default but can be picked up on the map), and it might fix some of the current issues that IMHO cause it to break gameplay. Don't like that idea? Ok, remember that laser-guided rocket feature that nobody likes to enable because we're so dependent on our precious simple right-click-to-detonate button? Make a new weapon slot for it, change a model or two, and put it into the mainstream game. That mod added in a whole new concept yet it's totally wasted if we don't see it in normal deathmatch games.

So in summary: The current system works well. Rather than alter existing strategies and existing balances, why don't we try to augment them with new ones?

I agree. I was wondering earlier why people were suggesting a retooling of a weapon that works perfectly fine rather than expanding and adding a new one.

Some might argue that too many weapons would make the game unwieldly, but UT2k4 handles it quite well. Both it and Half-life use a catagorical weapons system that makes large varieties of weapons quite easy to manage; this kind of approach could be used in Nex if more weapons were to be included in the future.

That's not a bad thing you brought up Worka, but I think it lacks people to make new mods, unless the guy who brought this up have will enough to make one, I could assist in making new weapon models and shells if need be, like the hook weapon or maybe as you suggested Worka, the laser laying on the ground.

Heh, actaully this conversation of redoing either crylink or electro made me use crylink more

THe developers don't create new weapons, becouse they can't I remember a discussion between divVerent and tZork, in they told me, there's no slot left for a new wepon in the code. BUT in the future, new weapons will be possible to have... You only need 4 magical notes in the very right order:

CSQC

Yet in the entire history of the game's existence, no one has added a single new weapon.

Don't forget about the HLAC. That was kind of cool.

There was also a flare gun, but if I remember right, it was really screwy.

More weapons can be added, but not fully integrated with hudicons etc w/o csqc. Its true the current weaponsystem allows nomore then the current # of weps, and i had to do a realy ugly hakk to add the hlac and flaregun in tmod, however a redisigned wep system could support way more weapons if needed.

The current system's limitations is once reason not to add mroe weps, but not the only one. Adding a new weapon will (unless the new ones totaly useless) change the balance betwen the other weps possibly making gameplay totaly whacky. It can also be very good for gamplay ofc. Another wep also means more learning, and it its basicaly the same as one or more of the exsisting weps; just a bit better your better off boosting the other one imo.

kozak6 wrote:

Yet in the entire history of the game's existence, no one has added a single new weapon.

Don't forget about the HLAC. That was kind of cool.

Mmm i miss something like that in vanilla nexuiz still.

kozak6 wrote:There was also a flare gun, but if I remember right, it was really screwy.

Hehe indeed. It ended up more of a incindery rocketlauncher then a flare.

I also experimented with the idea of more then two firemodes for each gun, the ones that have two well defined / usefull modes are way more interesting then ther other. And it thise can be combined its even more interesting. think of how popular the electro got after the inclusion of the electro combo.

Hmm.. Back to topic.

The impoding thing seems like a cool idea, and i would love to try it out online. im having a hard time seeing how it would affect gameplay so testing would surely be needed.

kozak6 wrote:

Yet in the entire history of the game's existence, no one has added a single new weapon.

Don't forget about the HLAC. That was kind of cool.

There was also a flare gun, but if I remember right, it was really screwy.

I'm not familiar with either of these. Can you please post a link to this "tmod"?

Atm im not sure where i put the source for it ill provide a link to it when/if i find it again. You would need a historic nexuiz relese to run it on too (1.2 iirc)

There is a tMod om my server (http://zdev.dvrdns.org/) however thats a 2.x rewrite of it that does not yet have thise extra weapons.

Don't sweat finding it then, it's not worth setting up the legacy environment. I was just curious what those weapons looked and felt like.

HLAC stands for Heavy Laser Assault Cannon. It looked pretty cool. It was all green and black.

It was quite a bit like a Q2 Hyperblaster, except the longer you fired it, the more it spread.

If I remember right, the secondary was like a massive shotgun blast of the projectiles.

The flaregun was weird. I don't remember much about it. All I remember is that the projectiles flew in straight lines and bounced like crazy, and that they could set you on fire.

The laser was also modified so that the secondary would fire massive BFG blasts of doom for 50 cells each.

we need something like the hyperblaster from q4, but it should be innovative. how about a combination hyperblaster and dark matter gun (referring to quake 4)
It would fire imploding dark matter like a machine gun. Mabie also the gravity gun from half life 2 when they get loose/breakable objects working.

Alternatively, the primary could be Hyper Blaster-like, and the secondary be to launch a grenade-like object that made a plasma implosion.

A 50 cell attack? That actually sounds like a neat idea - super powerful attacks that wear down ammunition. How many times have you dominated a game with hundreds of shells or rockets? A move that would reduce all that to zero in a few seconds would be interesting.

It wasn't very much fun.

Because it was the laser secondary, you ended up with a BFG on a pogo stick, and you couldn't kill it until he ran out of ammo.

I made the Electro shoot a hack of a lot faster and do 999 damage, imploding would be good for secondary fire i think, but in my case, no imploding for primary fire (unless its triggered by...say left click, but then there would be no secondary fire because secondary fire would be to make the primary implode)

RANDOM CRYLINK REPLY

If you cant use the Crylink, make it shoot more stuff at a faster rate with more damage. Thats what I did.

The Crylink is tricky.

I've been toying with it a little bit lately.

The trick seems to know when to use each firemode.

The secondary fire is actually extremely useful. It has a much farther effective range than you would expect, and it's easy to hit with since leading isn't as much of a problem. It's doesn't have the range of the mg secondary, but it's still surprisingly long reached.

The primary seems to be a medium to medium-close range thing. Too close is bad, since other close range weapons are meaner. The slow and widely spreading projectiles are difficult to compensate for, though.

tZork wrote:There is a tMod om my server (http://zdev.dvrdns.org/) however thats a 2.x rewrite of it that does not yet have thise extra weapons.

tMod being rewritten=AWESOME
please make support for LOTS of guns

I think there should be a game mode with wacky, unbalanced, totally fun weapons.
Off topic I know, but i can't contain myself.

Another idea: Make crylink primary fire a little faster between shots ans make it a little more powerful. It seems to take a lot of hits to frag anyone with it. The altfire mode is great because it usually gets more hits to target per shot.
Or, make the primary fire mode a large ball of energy, which explodes and sprays out the little balls upon impact. That way, you get can get a lot of hits on the target once it hits on\near target, but not necessarily instant death if the target moves away.
Btw, at first I was thinking about the cluster bomb thing as an altfire for the hagar.