Hi there,

At least a bunch of people think that Nexuiz is far from pretty, in the way Tremulous and Warsow are.

I can't be sure about this, as my Athlon XP 2600+ and GeForce 5200 Fx don't allow shaders and shadows without getting terrible fps.

I noticed one thing though: it seems that for example sidestep-animations are missing.

Is there an "art"-to-do list?

What other things should or could be improved visually in your humble opinion?

Do you agree that character animations is a problem?

qubodup wrote:Hi there

Hello

qubodup wrote:At least a bunch of people think that Nexuiz is far from pretty, in the way Tremulous and Warsow are.

Well it depends on what you look for in beauty in a game. I don't think warsow has fog or reflections. Some people prefer cell shaded maps and weapons, others prefer intimate details. I never played Tremulous so I can't comment on that.

qubodup wrote:I can't be sure about this, as my Athlon XP 2600+ and GeForce 5200 Fx don't allow shaders and shadows without getting terrible fps.

Well shaders are shadows are ~kind of a big deal~ if we're talking about the visuals of a game.

qubodup wrote:I noticed one thing though: it seems that for example sidestep-animations are missing.

It is to my understanding that there is limited know how of to actually create a character. There are some people I've seen create multiple characters in a week (leilol) but many others who have trouble rigging the model (which appears to be the biggest "how do I?" in the Nexuiz character creation scene).

Also, the torso doesn't move, I think that's more important than side step .

qubodup wrote:Is there an "art"-to-do list?

Nothing official that I know of... the development wiki may be the closest thing.

qubodup wrote:What other things should or could be improved visually in your humble opinion?

Moving torso, that is all I need (for now).

qubodup wrote:Do you agree that character animations is a problem?

It's not that big of a deal to me.

Q3 engine ... sorry

I don't think, that LordHavoc is going to port all his stuff to Q3.
Nevertheless a DarkPlacesQ3 engine would be awesome. Quake3 with all this shader stuff. Yum. But then there's still the performance problem.

qubodup wrote:[...] it seems that for example sidestep-animations are missing.

I think, there are some. But no sidestep-while-shooting-animations. This looks very weird. As if the characters are floating around the map. Afaik there are no jump-animations also.

qubodup wrote:What other things should or could be improved visually in your humble opinion?

Besides from animations, maybe HUD and menus. Of course, the current menu system is way better than the old one. But it's still not perfect imho. I think, the window shrinking animations should be slightly faster. And there has to be more skins. I don't like this plastic look. Metal would fit more to the game's theme. Still, the colorful characters (as they are atm) are alright. And if there are some jump-animations, they definitely should play at jumppads too. It looks stupid, when characters are being catapulted around and still look as if they're standing on some invisible platform.

qubodup wrote:Do you agree that character animations is a problem?

Yup. But I have no idea of 3D modeling, neither of animating stuff. If there'd be some cool tutorials, I'd love to do it myself, since I got some free time in the next few weeks.

[GF]HarryButt wrote:And there has to be more skins. I don't like this plastic look. Metal would fit more to the game's theme.

try "menu_skin silver;menu_restart" or "menu_skin simplygray;menu_restart". Both those are metalic.

Moving torso = segmented models, this would make Nexuiz look sooooo much better.

Yes, I'm sorry to tell you, but Warsow is beating Nexuiz in reflections, but contains less shiny-bumpy-graphical prowess otherwise. The portalmaps and camera maps and portal-camera maps are fun though, a lot like Portal (Orange box).

If we do segment the models (a task that's been put off since at least 2.23) then all of the current models will suddenly become useless. They just aren't made to bend at the waist. Still, this would allow waist-bending, sidestepping while shooting, better bunnyjumping anims (currently players freeze when jumping, something Warsow fixed). Segmented models should be a priority, but being so difficult, they might never even be started.
Also, Tremulous is good, for it's engine, but has no real modern rendering ability. It does have segmented models.

Okay, this link is already known in the forums, still here's the Blender Noob to Pro Guide.
There are printable PDFs also. I think, I'm gonna print a little book at my homies' print office and try to put some stuff together.

Hi,

I think what you guys really need is animation blending instead of segmenting player models. It can be entirely made in the client (I do it like this in the latest versions of Warsow) and it would allow to keep using the current models with minor changes (adding more animations).

So, say we wanted to fix the ugly-animations stuff, would we have to program new code? (anim blending) or is the code already there, but not used?

what about skeletal animations. They would require big changes to the models, yes?

qubodup wrote:Hi there,

At least a bunch of people think that Nexuiz is far from pretty, in the way Tremulous and Warsow are.

I can't be sure about this, as my Athlon XP 2600+ and GeForce 5200 Fx don't allow shaders and shadows without getting terrible fps.

I noticed one thing though: it seems that for example sidestep-animations are missing.

Is there an "art"-to-do list?

What other things should or could be improved visually in your humble opinion?

Do you agree that character animations is a problem?

I'm really not sure on what grounds you're saying nexuiz isn't pretty. animations and character models are more or less the only ugly things. and even then, not all of them are that ugly.

besides that, the rendering capabilities of nexuiz go up against next gen (i guess it's current gen now?) games pretty fucking well. shadows, reflections, parallax mapping, normal mapping, and the explosions are certainly some of the best i've ever seen in any game ever. this is mostly due to the fact that it relies on transparency mapped particles that obey physics, but overall just well thought out.

look at the video on the main page, tremulous doesn't hold a candle to it, and warsow just barely. warsow has superior art direction, but definitely inferior technical capabilities.

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rufsketch1 wrote:I'm really not sure on what grounds you're saying nexuiz isn't pretty.

I think it's mostly a psychological thing. the animations really are important. You/I has/have an expectation of bodily movement and movement in the level go hand in hand. In nexuiz the animations go against what your brain thinks they should do.

qubodup wrote:In nexuiz the animations go against what your brain thinks they should do.

Dito.
Okay, after a while, I noticed, we actually have jump animations. Still, they're kinda hard to notice and start being visible pretty late (like at the highest point of the jump).
I don't want stuff like in OA, when this marine guy does a backflip every time he's jumping backwards. That's over the top. But these have to be more explicit.
What's still over the top are the running animations. They remind me of Sonic The Hedgehog.
The Nexuiz optics offer potential, that's not being used by character models atm.

[GF]HarryButt wrote:[when this marine guy does a backflip every time he's jumping backwards.

Though this is welcomed as a 'taunt' jump.

Okay, after a while, I noticed, we actually have jump animations.

New for 2.4 I believe, they are cool. I wondered why the taunt animations were not included in Nexuiz until MrBougo showed me why... ehehe.

i guess you might be right in saying the animations throw it off. but i'm usually just observing the scenery. i don't have much time to critique the animations, as most characters explode the instant i shoot at them. which also happens to be the instant i see them .


i'm an anim8or and character modeler, and i'd like to improve content for the game, but it's really not as simple as it should be. ideally, it would be able to import from common 3D modeling and animation programs. and i dont mean just game modeling programs like gtkradiant. if you want good animators you look towards people who specialize in animation, not game design.

if anyone can find me a method to import animations and game models from blender, i'd be glad to contribute new models. and i'd be glad to make them movable at the hip if someone gives me the necessary specs to do so. I'd already started work on a new android robot model thing a while back ago. i think it came out to an acceptably low 800 polies. but i never got around to texturing or animating it, because it seemed like it would be a total pain.

We need not less than this level of animation.

You've gotta be insane if you think Nex isn't pretty. If you are running it on a Geforce 5 series, you can't comment. I run it on high and ultra. It looks amazing...rivaling many current commercial games. The only thing that I think is lacking are the character models. They are bad...no doubt. Other than that, the game is gorgeous. The lighting, particles, bumps, reflections and movement are all FAR better than Unreal Tournament 2004, and that game is considered still to have pretty good graphics.

OverDriven wrote:You've gotta be insane if you think Nex isn't pretty. If you are running it on a Geforce 5 series, you can't comment. I run it on high and ultra. It looks amazing...rivaling many current commercial games. The only thing that I think is lacking are the character models. They are bad...no doubt. Other than that, the game is gorgeous. The lighting, particles, bumps, reflections and movement are all FAR better than Unreal Tournament 2004, and that game is considered still to have pretty good graphics.

I agree with everything said there.

Nexuiz is definitely my fav game because of the realtime ambient lighting & textures alone, farless everything else about it like the gameplay options and gametypes, ...sure, the models could use some work, but that's what's fun about a FREE open source game, ...seeing the evolution of it all taking place, right before your eyes. Eventually someone who is awesome in modelling will come along with the incentive to beautifully fix the player-models & animations. We have everything else going for us, so it's just a matter of time.

qubodup wrote:Hi there,

At least a bunch of people think that Nexuiz is far from pretty, in the way Tremulous and Warsow are.

I can't be sure about this, as my Athlon XP 2600+ and GeForce 5200 Fx don't allow shaders and shadows without getting terrible fps.

I noticed one thing though: it seems that for example sidestep-animations are missing.

Is there an "art"-to-do list?

What other things should or could be improved visually in your humble opinion?

Do you agree that character animations is a problem?

Replying to a really old post here...

IMO, the "prettiness" of a game depends less on the capabilities of the engine and more on the skills of the content creators. If a game's maps are just a series of bland boring boxes with drab textures, then the most advanced game engine won't be able to make it look good. OTOH, you can make some really pretty stuff even with an old, outdated engine, You just have to learn how to work with the limits of a game engine instead of cursing them.
Having said that, I think Nex is a pretty decent game engine, It's not Id's newest and greatest, but it doesn't have to be in order to look good.

As for Warsow and Tremulous, I haven't played Warsow, but Tremulous did not strike me as a "pretty" game. Not much fun either.

And yes, I'd like a complete overhaul of the player models. I'd like more coherent models, maybe models that followed "themes" (alien sci-fi, undead, manga, clowns, etc), and better animations. Myself, I'd like the models be able to look up and down.

Perhaps some way to incorporate flashing lights into the maps? I've not seen this feature around...