Love the hitsound the way it is now, but there are still some things bugging me.

One of them is the loud, "spatial" rocket detonate sound. It sounds like the sound comes from behind me or something, and rapidly switches between the left and right ear. I liked it more the way it was in V3.6.4, where it sounded more damped and "flat".

Another thing is the hagar. The sound itself is really nice, but when you hold the mouse button down and fire rapidly, it sounds a bit weird/noisy. Hard to explain really, but it's like it doesn't get enough time before it's played again, you know Maybe make it faster or something? I don't know, I'm not that good at making sounds

Anyhow, thank you again for your awesome work Tenshihan! It's awesome now that they are in SVN: just do a svn up and I have the latest sounds by you

divVerent wrote:What is a "brass", or when is it supposed to be played?

I only know the word as "music instrument you blow into that's made of some sort of thin metal"...

I'm sorry Div, sometimes I forget about cultural differences when it comes to language.

As you know, there are quite a few varying ammo-types, and so they have different names for the ammo-casings;

Shotguns use 'shells' which are mainly just a plastic container.

However, rifles, machine-guns and handguns have bullet-casings that are made of the metals copper or 'brass'.

FruitieX wrote:Love the hitsound the way it is now, but there are still some things bugging me.

One of them is the loud, "spatial" rocket detonate sound. It sounds like the sound comes from behind me or something, and rapidly switches between the left and right ear. I liked it more the way it was in V3.6.4, where it sounded more damped and "flat".

Another thing is the hagar. The sound itself is really nice, but when you hold the mouse button down and fire rapidly, it sounds a bit weird/noisy. Hard to explain really, but it's like it doesn't get enough time before it's played again, you know Maybe make it faster or something? I don't know, I'm not that good at making sounds

Anyhow, thank you again for your awesome work Tenshihan! It's awesome now that they are in SVN: just do a svn up and I have the latest sounds by you

Hi FruiteX, always great to hear from you!

Thanks for your report, ...I wasn't sure how people would take the change for the 'Rocket-Det' sound, ...previously I had the volume down so low that most people couldn't hear it. So I figured that if I made it a stereo effect it would be heard easily. It was just an experiment and yours is the first report on it. I will adapt the sound to have less spread and hopefully that will work for you.

Hmmn, as for the Hagar, ...I will work on that sound if that's the case. I'll try making it a faster-sound for you.

Thanks again for your positive criticism and your valued appraisal, ...have a good night my friend!

~Tenshihan

EDIT: I just fixed both those sounds, ...they will be included in the next release, after I get back some more feedback from everyone if there's any other sound-issues. Thanks again!

Ah, then I guessed right that these are the machine gun casings. It's right in svn, then.

divVerent wrote:Ah, then I guessed right that these are the machine gun casings. It's right in svn, then.

Awesome! That will be very cool to hear!

I was wondering, in case some people don't like the changes, ...can we make another option in the sound-menu as a cvar? eg: "Ejecting Bullet-Casings: ON/OFF" toggle?

I don't think the problem with them was that they change gameplay, so no option needed for that. That feature exists like forever, and was turned off by default at a time when the engine could not handle overlapping entities well - which led to players getting "stuck" in casings, or even falling out of the map sometimes.

But this problem is fixed now.

I got a suspicion that these sounds derive from stock audio samples from Sound Generals. Those 'commonly used' sounds are NOT 'public domain'. They are licensed by purchasing the sound library for royalty-free license without changing its license.

Like familiar flesh splat sound in the hit sound, electro sound (the sparks really remind me of half-life), ... the shotgun even sounds familiar.

I hope these do not get committed.

They already have been. Any info on this, Tenshihan?

What is the link to those sound generals? If they are samples, that doesn't mean you can't expand on. All synthesizers come with their own set of samples.

From the other hand, we don't need openarena style wars here. I still don't know how this war has finished (if it has) cause trak's textures are still claimed as GPL ones.

Can't find sound generals on google except some myspace profiles.

leileilol, the sg sound has been recorded by Tenshihan himself.

C.Brutail wrote:leileilol, the sg sound has been recorded by Tenshihan himself.

From an actual shotgun, I suppose that is how all shotgun samples originate.

Unproven accusations, fortunately that is not how modern judiciary systems function.

TVR wrote:

C.Brutail wrote:leileilol, the sg sound has been recorded by Tenshihan himself.

From an actual shotgun, I suppose that is how all shotgun samples originate.

Unproven accusations, fortunately that is not how modern judiciary systems function.

Leileilol was simply questioning the sounds' legal nature- seems a perfectly legitimate concern. If they aren't from samples, then great. If they are, then there are problems- but we shouldn't hesitate to check. Better safe then sorry.

torus wrote:

TVR wrote:

C.Brutail wrote:leileilol, the sg sound has been recorded by Tenshihan himself.

From an actual shotgun, I suppose that is how all shotgun samples originate.

Unproven accusations, fortunately that is not how modern judiciary systems function.

Leileilol was simply questioning the sounds' legal nature- seems a perfectly legitimate concern. If they aren't from samples, then great. If they are, then there are problems- but we shouldn't hesitate to check. Better safe then sorry.

The burden of proof is established onto the accuser, an injunction ['I hope these do not get committed'] based without the benefit of doubt isn't a fair judiciary procedure.

TVR wrote:

torus wrote:

TVR wrote:

C.Brutail wrote:leileilol, the sg sound has been recorded by Tenshihan himself.

From an actual shotgun, I suppose that is how all shotgun samples originate.

Unproven accusations, fortunately that is not how modern judiciary systems function.

Leileilol was simply questioning the sounds' legal nature- seems a perfectly legitimate concern. If they aren't from samples, then great. If they are, then there are problems- but we shouldn't hesitate to check. Better safe then sorry.

The burden of proof is established onto the accuser, an injunction ['I hope these do not get committed'] based without the benefit of doubt isn't a fair judiciary procedure.

This is not a federal court, if you hadn't noticed. It's up to the community to investigate and come to a consensus about a claim like that.

By the way, does it make you feel big obfuscate your language to the point where the meaning is practically lost? You sound like a teenager who's just learned the meaning of polysyllabic anfractuosity.

leileilol wrote:I got a suspicion that these sounds derive from stock audio samples from Sound Generals. Those 'commonly used' sounds are NOT 'public domain'. They are licensed by purchasing the sound library for royalty-free license without changing its license.

Like familiar flesh splat sound in the hit sound, electro sound (the sparks really remind me of half-life), ... the shotgun even sounds familiar.

I hope these do not get committed.

Wow, I spend a day away sleeping off the flu and then sign-in only to find all of this nonsense? I find your public accusations HIGHLY offensive.

None of the sounds that I make are 'stock sounds' from any other source other than myself:

The flesh-splat sound you hear was made with my mouth.

The Electrical-spark sound you hear was made in my garage with an electrical arc-welder.

The shotgun is a remington that I borrowed from a friend while at the Gun-range and took SEVERAL recordings to get right because the first set were terribly distorted due to how loud the gun is, ...I finally had to turn the input-gain down to 5% to get the initial blast-sound without distortion, and then combine THAT wave with the decaying sound of the other previous recordings I've done. When combined, it is what you hear in THIS game.

And in case you ever check my credits, in the past ten years I have done sound-mods for several games, INCLUDING the half-life series - before starting here as well.

http://www.garrysmod.org/user/?u=28599&rnum=864837

Most people use MY sounds when they use a sound-mod nowadays.

If ANY of my other soundwork is in question, ...here is what you need to know NOW, ...I record EVERYTHING MYSELF digitally using some of the most expensive technology available, as is my software. The amount of hours I put into working on waveforms have proven my abilities as a Sound-Designer for the past 20+ years. I'm not some kid who grabs sounds from others and claims them as his own. Also, I work hard at pleasing our community here by CHANGING anything and everything they ask for, ...I don't sit on my ass and leave everyone with only ONE option. (If you want NEW Gib sounds, or electrical arc sounds, ...you could have just ASKED)

If someone thinks my sounds are too familiar sounding - that's because OTHERS have used them before (I have a MASSIVE sound-library that I've created in the past ten years), but these sounds are in-fact all MINE and I hold the copyright on them and use them as I see fit. In the case of Nexuiz, 99.9% of the recordings Ive done are new and never used in any game before, they are made specifically for Nexuiz.

~Michael 'Tenshihan' Quinn

I think that settles it

torus wrote:I think that settles it

Thanks Torus, ...always good to hear from You, man!

BTW, i'm not sure if Div has contacted you about re-doing some vocal lines, but we wanted to use your excellent-speaking voice for the player-model 'Grunt'.

Also, If you can do any other types of voices as well, ...maybe you could record some samples for me? (I also really want to do some recordings for the player-model 'Quark'), and I think that your voice would be excellent if you used a similar but more flat monotone to what you previously did. I also really liked the voice-modulation you used (robotic-effects?) afterwards in post. Please let me know if that's cool with you.

Cheers,

~Tenshihan

torus wrote:... This is not a federal court ...

Burden of proof and benefit of doubt are general concepts that may and should be applied to any form of judgement. Unproven accusations come as libel, as you've seen with Tenshihan.

If takedown were issued, it would be resolved in the physical location of the web-host.

I still wonder about trak's textures.

Thank you, that resolved everything.

leileilol is always looking for non-free content in GPLed games. Don't be insulted by that. And leileilol did manage to find some textures in Nexuiz that were ripped from Q3A - which I then simply remade from scratch to resolve it.

leileilol does have a point in doing that - GPLed content may be used by other projects too (according to the GPL, these must be under the GPL then too, but that's about it - for data, the GPL is very similar to CC-BY-SA, but a dfiferent license, thus not compatible to that CC license). Now if some content in Nexuiz may have stemmed from illegal sources, it may even happen that nobody of us gets sued - but someone else who used our content.

And you wouldn't guess how many free projects use sounds or textures from illegal sources. The main "motor" for happening this are "public domain content sites". Some people take data out of a commercially released game, and upload it on these sites, which automatically add it to the collection. The next one comes, downloads such content, and thinks "great, it's public domain" - but what he does not know is that it in fact isn't, and he'll may end up in court for it. That's the usual path of non-free content slipping in... and seriously, leileilol is the only one in the open source scene who tries to find such content, and notify the project owners about it.

Thanks for resolving this.

The best way if the textures wouldn't be scattered all around (how one could know whether the particular texture in particular map is gpl or not) and another question is whether would you accept those

scattered all around? What do you mean?

The evil* texture directories are all made by evillair.

Many mappers however put the textures in a directory of their map name, and some mappers (e.g. the mapper of starship) took textures from Q3A and edited them.

GPL ones. Taking a non-official map you can't be sure, that the particular texture used is GPL one.

I have no idea what the dispute about TraK's textures was, that is, which media he supposedly had used with or without permission.

However, even in the worst case, a written statement that's sent to, e.g., Vermeulen, would settle all.

That statement could be written like:

Hereby I declare that I am a rightful copyright holder of <work name here>.

either:
The work is a derived work from <work name here>, licensed to me under the terms of the <license name here>... (maybe a longer list)
(if the licensing isn't publicly known, attach a verifiable proof of license, in TraK's case, a printed copy of the e-mail he got)

or:
The work is a sole work by myself/the author team, and is not derived from any work made by others.

Therefore, all conditions to license <work name here> to you under the terms of the General Public License, version 2 are fulfilled, and I hereby license <work name here> to Alientrap (and consequently to the general public) under this license.

<signature here>

As I believe Tenshihan, I don't think we should ask him to write up such a statement and sign it and send it to us, as he has clearly proven that he does have his own sound studio and records on his own. However, in case of doubt, such a document would make the one who provided the media to us liable in case the material is a copyright violation, so we could sue him for damages in case someone sued us for damages.

I have no idea what this was about with the TraK textures. But if TraK writes up such a statement and sends it to leileilol, the textures sure CAN be included again, and I would include them in Nexuiz then too if Vermeulen (address is in whois alientrap.org) confirms he has received it.

The question is, however, whether leileilol has a post address to send this to, as such thing as part of an e-mail or a forum post wouldn't be legally binding.

TraK's textures were derived from cgtextures.com with 'personal permission'. 2 months past the OA 080 release that had them, cgtextures made a final clarification that their materials may not be used in GPL or commercial products. Since that, OA 0.8.0's been pulled, textures were purged, and CGTextures is declared as a big evil. Safe rules over sorry. Don't trust contributors with big words and excuses, such as !!:

Tenshihan wrote:If someone thinks my sounds are too familiar sounding - that's because OTHERS have used them before (I have a MASSIVE sound-library that I've created in the past ten years), but these sounds are in-fact all MINE and I hold the copyright on them and use them as I see fit. In the case of Nexuiz, 99.9% of the recordings Ive done are new and never used in any game before, they are made specifically for Nexuiz.

lol:

Tenshihan wrote:The flesh-splat sound you hear was made with my mouth.

lol does that mean this sound from Quake III Team Arena is made with your mouth too? How about these stabbings from Counter-Strike? This is clearly Sound Generals. NO WAIT! You "did that with your mouth". How am I supposed to believe you just didn't copy and paste from some copyrighted Sound Generals derived source? Why are these identical sounding sound effects appear in other games when you state you made " are new and never used in any game before, they are made specifically for Nexuiz."? Hrm.
I may be complaining about just ONE of the sounds, but the act of blatantly lying that you created it from your mouth completely shatters any further reputable 'truth' of this sudden ego you had to somehow bring up in the post.
You are highly offended because I know this is the typical strong reaction of guilt. I've seen it way too many times from big egos who are too afraid to have admitted from taking from copyrighted sources then contributing those to a GPL project of all things that react and lie like this. Mmmmmmm suspicion.

Hope these get reverted for the sake of the project's future.

Can't you be just one time positive about this project and the ppl doing it anymore?
You're acting like a crybaby.

C.Brutail wrote:Can't you be just one time positive about this project and the ppl doing it anymore?
You're acting like a crybaby.

Holy crap, let's lynch those who raise red flags on potential legal risks. Smart idea. Let's live in a world where everyone commits copyright infringement unintentionally by sharing Nexuiz.

Is this your idea of Free Software? It certainly isn't mine.

Why the fuck you can't believe what it is told to you? It's Tenshinhan's RESPONSIBILITY to provide GPL'ed materials and he has already told you that they ARE GPL'ed.

Yeah, just remove everything, cause somebody might have patented particular bpm pattern or waveform. Meh, all shotgun sounds have SIMILAR wave pattern cause the mechanism is SIMILAR, isn't it? You want that each sound should differ from any other game, but rl explosions irl do not differ at all. Now when Nexuiz finally have GOOD sounds, we should remove them because there is NO DIRECT proof and only suspicions. In the end, there is no way to prove anything cause too many modifications make the source not recognizable anyway.

And if CGtextures didn't give permission, why don't they bring Trak to lawsuit then?

I believe Leileilol compared these sounds to this:
http://svn.icculus.org/*checkout*/nexui ... ision=4922

I indeed think this sounds similar to http://leileilol.mancubus.net/crap/crap ... e_hit3.wav

Similarity is not proof that something was stolen. Non guilty until proved, and not vice versa.
Let's say I analyze the bpm pattern of quake 3 intro song and then recreate the song with same bpm pattern, but with different drumset, tones, etc... Am I guilty and my sound can't be GPL'ed? No. The license of reference does not imply the license of implementation because world is not the USA.