Leileilol, it's ok to raise legal questions and express doubt but please stay civil. I share your opinion that we should be careful about GPL hygiene, and also that a "written" confirmation posted on the forum is not really legally significant.

But please consider that all you have come up with to back up your doubts is "it sounds familiar". Of course the sounds Tenshihan produces should sound familiar to existing sounds, if those sounds are good.

I think it is not acceptable to base insults like calling somebody a liar on that kind of mere assumption. Especially if this somebody has proven to be more than capable of producing high quality sounds and altering the sounds according to the community's requests/suggestions. That alone demonstrates his skill in working with sounds, so why shouldn't he be able to create sounds from scratch?

Considering how much Tenshihan has done for Nexuiz so far (but also in general), I would strongly recommend you to back up claims like this better. You could for example compare the audio files digitally. If you can't do that, express your doubt in a civil way but don't insult people just because you think they did something wrong.

Edit: I spent too much time writing this, now three replies came in between :o)

leileilol wrote:

Tenshihan wrote:The flesh-splat sound you hear was made with my mouth.

lol does that mean this sound from Quake III Team Arena is made with your mouth too? How about these stabbings from Counter-Strike? This is clearly Sound Generals. NO WAIT! You "did that with your mouth". How am I supposed to believe you just didn't copy and paste from some copyrighted Sound Generals derived source? Why are these identical sounding sound effects appear in other games when you state you made " are new and never used in any game before, they are made specifically for Nexuiz."? Hrm.
I may be complaining about just ONE of the sounds, but the act of blatantly lying that you created it from your mouth completely shatters any further reputable 'truth' of this sudden ego you had to somehow bring up in the post.
You are highly offended because I know this is the typical strong reaction of guilt. I've seen it way too many times from big egos who are too afraid to have admitted from taking from copyrighted sources then contributing those to a GPL project of all things that react and lie like this. Mmmmmmm suspicion.

Hope these get reverted for the sake of the project's future.

Clearly you cannot - by your hearing (or lack of intelligence) alone - distinguish between sounds that are similar, but are NOT by waveform analyis definition - the same AT ALL.

Your laughable comparison of links to those sounds - and comparing them to MY 'hit' sound are the perfect example of why you are not capable of judging anything to do with sound. My waveforms look NOTHING like those ones. Not at all.

Most 'gib' sounds you hear are made in only a few ways; 1) A wet Chammy-cloth flung against a surface. 2) Fruits such as Melons being splashed open or having their innards handled roughly by hand, or 3) by Mouth, usually filled with water, which is how I did MINE.

You should ask yourself; When comparing the few sounds you've brought up in comparison to ALL my other work - "why WOULD he use a few borrowed sounds when everything else he does is completely original?"

How does THAT make ANY sense? You think I want to pettily lower my own standards through mere plagerism so that morons like you can so easily 'troll' my hard work?

How does THAT make ANY sense? What would be the motive? ....failure? So I look like a lazy idiot?

Do you even have the capability of COMPARING waveforms? Because I DO, and My waveforms are UNIQUE and look NOTHING like the ones you are claiming sound like mine.

The fact that you cannot tell the difference only means only ONE THING: That YOU cannot distinguish between similar sounds with your incompetent ears. Your unwarranted accusation has absolutely NO merit, nor ANY validity, especially when comparing such OBVIOUSLY DIFFERENT SOUNDS.

One only needs to use a waveform editor, open up the sounds you've compared to mine, and SEE that they are all and each uniquely shaped, with their own crests and peaks at completely different intervals. In short - only a complete IDIOT would attempt to slander my work without even INVESTIGATING firstly BEFORE making such a stupid accusation. You have 'compared' these sounds by EAR - and in your failed 'esteemed' OPINION, have passed judgement on them as if YOUR opinion alone were 'reality'.

How could you even compare MY 'hit' sound with these? Or are you CONFUSING the original 'gib' sound that was already included with the Nexuiz sound-pack - as MY work - before I even arrived on this project? Obviously that is NOT 'my' gib sound, nor have I claimed it was mine. Your accusation was about my 'hit' sound, which if you are talking about the background gib sound I added to it - that IS MADE WITH MY MOUTH.

The rest of your insultive post, calling ME a liar, as if YOUR opinion was the final say in reality - is a JOKE to me. You wrongfully conclude that because I am offended by your insults and accusations, that I must somehow be GUILTY because of my strong reaction? Do you expect people that you insult - to lie down quietly while you attempt to *beeep*?

Are you completely insane? Has anyone ever accused you of *beep*? How would YOU feel if some moron came along and accused you of doing that - and then claimed it "was true" ...just because HE "heard you doing it".

Brilliant deduction there, son.

It seems to me that it's YOUR ego that is "so full of itself" that you feel you have the right to accuse others of 'stealing' without ANY scientific proof what-so-ever. ...Oh, unless it's by your professional audio-analyzing "ears". LMFAO - what a JOKE!

Awesome logic and scientific investigation technique you have there. If ANYONE believes a word you say WITHOUT investigating the sound waveforms themself, then I have no choice but to discern them as stupid as yourself.

Below is for ALL to see, your two 'examples' below, and then my 'hit' sound at the bottom. As everyone can see, they look NOTHING alike.



*beeep sounds were made by C.Brutail. With his own *beeeping* keyboard. [/b]

Hmm could we all stay civil here? This is very unproductive. Strong words do not make an argument stronger - if anything, they make it vulnerable. I know you feel insulted, Tenshihan, and you indeed are but my point remains valid.


Peace :o)

I don't think that post needed insults.

halogene wrote:Hmm could we all stay civil here? This is very unproductive. Strong words do not make an argument stronger - if anything, they make it vulnerable. I know you feel insulted, Tenshihan, and you indeed are, but my point remains valid.

Peace )

I agree my friend, i'm usually a very peaceful guy, however, when someone throws a punch at me for no reason, I WILL tear their arm off.

If only trolls were not allowed to post such absurd stupidity, I wouldn't have any reason to defend myself.

Peace to you too.

Watch for it guys... There could be children here

C.Brutail wrote:Watch for it guys... There could be children here

You're right, i'm sorry C.Brutail, ...I WILL edit my post, regardless of my emotions, due to that fact.

EDIT: Oh, haha, ...ok, you already fixed it.

Err IMHO that's no troll. Leileilol is doing what he thinks is good. It's for the benefit of Nexuiz, not for anything else, as divVerent stated.

As for his harsh way of arguing, I do agree it makes it look like trolling. I told him on IRC, but he said he does that all the time :p




Tenshihan, as your work is GPL, you could provide the original recordings, that would be a way more efficient counter-argument than insult.

Yeah, XSAX does it all the time too.

Alien wrote:Yeah, XSAX does it all the time too.

XSAX is actually off-topic here. All I got to say about him is that he's not always a bad guy.

Try having a normal talk with him. He won't go aggressive.

I know he's not a troll of sort, but leileilol has made his posts nowadays in this childish way, which is sad because I know him from longer time, and I know he's a nice guy...
I wonder why he's still upset

Mr. Bougo wrote:Err IMHO that's no troll. Leileilol is doing what he thinks is good. It's for the benefit of Nexuiz, not for anything else, as divVerent stated.

As for his harsh way of arguing, I do agree it makes it look like trolling. I told him on IRC, but he said he does that all the time :p

Hi Mr.Bougo,

Nice to meet you.

Sorry to say but there are FAR more polite ways of finding out from someone about something - than to publically accuse them of STEALING. When you go out of your way to aggravate someone, that IS trolling.

If someone wants to do somethng for the benefit of Nexuiz, as I and several others here DO - then we work as a team and communicate effectively - that is NOT accomplished by slander. His opinion is not valid in this case, and as such, his accusation towards me is mere rudeness without warrant or merit.

If he 'does this all the time' then he has a problem. Insulting developers doesn't help Nexuiz at all. If anything it creates dissention within the ranks.

Mr. Bougo wrote:Tenshihan, as your work is GPL, you could provide the original recordings, that would be a way more efficient counter-argument than insult.

THAT is one of the EASIEST things in the world for me to do, I just hope everyone understands that my original files are very big.

As for throwing insults back, I just want him to know what it feels like to be on the receiving end of what HE "puts out there". It's pathetic that some people do not possess a sense of empathy and compassion, and therefore must be taught by example to respect others.

C.Brutail wrote:I know he's not a troll of sort, but leileilol has made his posts nowadays in this childish way, which is sad because I know him from longer time, and I know he's a nice guy...
I wonder why he's still upset

You've known him for a longer time? Did you know he was a she?

But yeah Leilei has helped Nexuiz too in the past with various things and has a great mind, both with game developing and open source. She actually hates, really hates, illegal stuff in GPL, thus why I believe she came off so strongly. I do agree that the harsh approach was wrong though.

If that makes any sense, he was once one of the developers of Nexuiz
Anyway, this is OT from now on.

ai wrote:

C.Brutail wrote:I know he's not a troll of sort, but leileilol has made his posts nowadays in this childish way, which is sad because I know him from longer time, and I know he's a nice guy...
I wonder why he's still upset

You've known him for a longer time? Did you know he was a she?

Ahahahahh, I'm not falling for this now
I've just heard so much about leileilol's gender identity, I'm not quite sure anymore what or who to belive I'm not sure he's a human either

II don't think any of you two should ignore the other's point because it was formulated in an inappropriate way.

Leileilol has had a lot of arguments with the developing team, he's indeed sometimes acting like a child, but IMHO that's not a good reason to stop a discussion. As a serious person, you should try to get over it for a second, and see if he makes an effort. I don't think answering with more aggressivity helps to solve conflicts.

Conflit is solved. Now could we be back on topic.. pleeeeease?

C.Brutail wrote:Conflit is solved. Now could we be back on topic.. pleeeeease?

Does not look solved to me. More like smothered. Noone has proven anything so far, none of the two parties has agreed with the other's point.

I believe leileilol will keep on looking for infringement, collect information if it exists, or forget about this case if he can't find anything.

Mr. Bougo wrote:

C.Brutail wrote:Conflit is solved. Now could we be back on topic.. pleeeeease?

Does not look solved to me. More like smothered. No one has proven anything so far, none of the two parties has agreed with the other's point.

I believe leileilol will keep on looking for infringement, collect information if it exists, or forget about this case if he can't find anything.

With respect to your opinion, ...how is it smothered? How is it NOT proved? I have established clearly with the photo that my waveform looks NOTHING like what he was saying I stole from. Again, anyone can do this with any waveform editor.

What should I agree with in the post where I'm being accused of stealing?

Those screenshot Tenshihan posted look pretty decent evidences to me.
But yeah, the best would be to post those raw sounds, that'd make everything clear.

Tenshihan wrote:With respect to your opinion, ...how is it smothered? How is it NOT proved? I have established clearly with the photo that my waveform looks NOTHING like what he was saying I stole from. Again, anyone can do this with any waveform editor.

What I see on your post is the comparison of the waveform of a sound 1, with the waveform of a sound 2 plus a sound 3.


I'm not saying you're a stealer. Not at all. But I don't like it that leileilol's good intentions are being seen as evil.

Mr. Bougo wrote:

Tenshihan wrote:With respect to your opinion, ...how is it smothered? How is it NOT proved? I have established clearly with the photo that my waveform looks NOTHING like what he was saying I stole from. Again, anyone can do this with any waveform editor.

Mr. Bougo wrote:What I see on your post is the comparison of the waveform of a sound 1, with the waveform of a sound 2 plus a sound 3.

Yes, ...and what does this mean?

I'm not saying you're a stealer. Not at all. But I don't like it that leileilol's good intentions are being seen as evil.

Please explain to me how accusing me of stealing has any 'good intentions' attached to it. I sincerely do not understand your meaning and i'm not being rude or sarcastic at all, ...seriously, I want to understand please. How is his behaviour, acceptable? How does anything of his insulting post have ANY merit what-so-ever?

It was unfair of leileilol to jump to such conclusions. Before making such accusations, I think she should do a little research first. Anyone that knows tenshihan knows he has his own studio and makes his own sounds 100%... he's said it a few times even.

leileilol wrote:TraK's textures were derived from cgtextures.com with 'personal permission'. 2 months past the OA 080 release that had them, cgtextures made a final clarification that their materials may not be used in GPL or commercial products. Since that, OA 0.8.0's been pulled, textures were purged, and CGTextures is declared as a big evil. Safe rules over sorry. Don't trust contributors with big words and excuses, such as !!:

Please let me know if I'm missing something but from an outsiders view it appears you did not address the concerns of your members on this topic, rather didn't reply and locked the thread.

Did you personally contact cgtextures about this? Please clarify.

[-z-] wrote:It was unfair of leileilol to jump to such conclusions. Before making such accusations, I think she should do a little research first. Anyone that knows tenshihan knows he has his own studio and makes his own sounds 100%... he's said it a few times even.

Thank you -z-!

I even have most of my equipment listed on your website if anyone takes the time to check my profile there.

I got into this part of the sound-business (video-games) in the first place because the default sounds of games - SUCKED, ...so it doesn't make any sense at all to accuse me of using those old sounds. I love that I can make all my own sounds, ...its one of the things I am proud of because I KNOW they are MINE. I know what it takes to create them and how I process the data into what you guys all end-up hearing. I've been so happy to be a part of the team here, but crap like this really burns me up and I don't mind admitting it.

Besides, anyone who KNOWS me, also knows of my personal code of ethics and STEALING doesn't fit in with who I am, ...nor does laziness.

I don't believe a 30 year veteran of Ninjutsu who has such proudly displayed morals would lie or steal.

Leileilol is obsessed about infringements. He did that only to help Nexuiz, had his idea first, and couldn't detach from it. That's indeed a shame.

I still think leileilol's intentions were not to hurt anyone, but to help Nexuiz. It seems he was mistaken, but I still appreciate what he did. Not the way he did it, though. Calling you a stealer did not help at all.


See, he does not know you at all. From his point of view, you could have been someone with an inflated ego, trying to get random content into nexuiz by any means, just to get attention. You could also have been some crazy who inserts illegal content then triggers some legal process just to kill the project. Of course these examples are quite extreme, but they are only illustrations, not what he thought you were :p

Now from this kind of point of view, it's quite hard to trust words. He wanted facts, and I think you got enough proofs to show that your work is genuine. Let's see what he says.

Bah, there is no definite way to prove anything in this world. Lots of modified open source projects can be used as closed source software, but how can you prove that looking at the binary form? The only ones, which were caught were so stupid source rips, that they left unmodified text strings inside binary release (mpc example).
Idealism's principles do not stand in reality (linksys example). This is how the information differs from matterials, cause you can use particular information without stealing the actual content from the owner.

C.Brutail wrote:Those screenshot Tenshihan posted look pretty decent evidences to me.
But yeah, the best would be to post those raw sounds, that'd make everything clear.

I found ONE sample of my 'pre-gib-tests' (I have so many!) What I usually do is find a few of my tests that sound ok, then COMBINE those waves together to get a nice digusting simulation of gibbiness. The sample i've uploaded to my Signature are some of the gib-sounds I've done with my mouth. (Yes, they DO sound silly as hell out of context, unedited, raw and without being combined into one big, giant gibby-sound, I haven't even filtered this to minimize background noise, so, ...beware - LOL)

If you listen carefully, you can actually hear my goofy voice - laughing to myself at my own sillyness while narrating my technique references at times. (I self-narrarate because I know that I do so many recordings, and sometimes the only way to recall the process I spontaneously came-up with - is to self-narrarate that process as I do it.) This helps me when reviewing old files, so I have an idea of how to re-create them again later.

In the examples i'm providing, It's sounds like the LAST two sounds I make (at around 0:33 and again at 0:40 seconds) ...that I ended up combining together with some editing into the existing 'hit' sound. (These ones are in stereo - whereas the released one is mono - for sound-direction in-game)

Check my SIgnature for download, ...they won't be there for more than two days, after which - this questioning of my integrity SHOULD be over with.

Peace,

~Tenshihan

Thank you