Franco was so kind and do a test session with me. Here are the results:
- g_antilag_bullets works flawless, as expected. Of course, the CR and the MG are far too powerful when having g_antilag_bullets enabled, they would need a major adjustment concerning spread, RPS and damage!
- when g_antilag_bullets is not enabled, the amount you need to lead to hit at all (even with SG spread) is like one playermodel width when my opponent is walking parallel to me in a distance of about 5 meters. Of course, a big amount of that is caused by my normal lag I have to the server (a spectator said that I was not actually having my crosshair on him, on my screen, however, my crosshair was on his body)
- testing long distance shots with MG secondary showed how slow the bullets are (they are really too slow)

I'm excited to see quality answers to my previous questions

GreEn`mArine wrote:- testing long distance shots with MG secondary showed how slow the bullets are (they are really too slow)

Not all bullets are supersonic. The MG and SG bullets are slightly below speed of sound. What's wrong with that? CR is supersonic of course.

GreEn`mArine wrote:- g_antilag_bullets works flawless, as expected. Of course, the CR and the MG are far too powerful when having g_antilag_bullets enabled, they would need a major adjustment concerning spread, RPS and damage!
- when g_antilag_bullets is not enabled, the amount you need to lead to hit at all (even with SG spread) is like one playermodel width when my opponent is walking parallel to me in a distance of about 5 meters. Of course, a big amount of that is caused by my normal lag I have to the server (a spectator said that I was not actually having my crosshair on him, on my screen, however, my crosshair was on his body)
- testing long distance shots with MG secondary showed how slow the bullets are (they are really too slow)

Such adjustments have just been made and divVerent is collecting stats from lazy dog and the planetnexuiz.de servers with those changes to see if stuff is still balanced. Of course tests followed by praises are always welcome

well a specator will suffer even more lag which can explain why he sees you aiming at a different spot.

the sg, mg and cr bullets have different speeds and curves when not antilagged.. which actually fits the guns.

esteel wrote:when playing locally you can simulate ping via cl_netlocal_ping (iirc) i guess then you can compare how ping affects both modes the best

It is cl_netlocalping, amazing idea. However I wonder how reliable it could be for testing. I think nothing can be better than the tests GM is making because these are real situations.

Hi,

I was playing last night online (2.4.2 server), with a ping of about 40, and at one point I was running side by side to the NMY, i.e. point-blank range, with the crosshair on the NMY's chest with the MG going at full-auto, and you know how many times I hit? Zero. That's right. Nada.

So, I'm not sure how 'realistic' it is to hold an UZI 1 foot waya from someone's chest, pull the trigger and miss, but if that is realistic, then I must be living in the wrong reality.

The SVN version works fine with the BOTs, but as there are no SVN servers locally for me to test on, I don't know how it will work on a remote server.

So maybe someone can suggest a script to automatically throw the MG away in case I accidentally pick it up, because it would be better not to try using it at all than to fire away at point blank range in the vain hope that you will hit something.

flea

flea wrote:Hi,

I was playing last night online (2.4.2 server), with a ping of about 40, and at one point I was running side by side to the NMY, i.e. point-blank range, with the crosshair on the NMY's chest with the MG going at full-auto, and you know how many times I hit? Zero. That's right. Nada.

So, I'm not sure how 'realistic' it is to hold an UZI 1 foot waya from someone's chest, pull the trigger and miss, but if that is realistic, then I must be living in the wrong reality.

The SVN version works fine with the BOTs, but as there are no SVN servers locally for me to test on, I don't know how it will work on a remote server.

So maybe someone can suggest a script to automatically throw the MG away in case I accidentally pick it up, because it would be better not to try using it at all than to fire away at point blank range in the vain hope that you will hit something.

flea

Recently I was playing against someone on my server (SVN). At first I had him scoped in with the camping rifle... he was a sitting duck... but then I thought "this is too easy", so I crept closer in the map (spirecontrol), moved in the back of the mountain, went over the bridge when he must have not been looking, and I got to the base of his tower. I switched to the RL to blow him from his roost... but then I thought "too fucking easy", so I go up the tower: round and round the spiral stairs, picked up the MG at the base, and picking up ammo as I go around... I get to the top, he's still "sniping", I level the MG at his back (I crept up in crouch), I pull the fucking primary trigger.

BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

I used up all 999 ammo on him and his gibs.
He died.
I got a frag.

Yet again the [Better] clan proved itself.

tundramagi wrote:I used up all 999 ammo on him and his gibs.
He died.
I got a frag.

Yet again the [Better] clan proved itself.

I see. OK. Well.

I got nothing.

This game is GPL right?

@tundra:
The problem as I've understood it is not with non-moving-players as players who stands still will die no matter what weapon. The problem is with moving targets.
I need to find time to try this online as well, haven't had the time yet. Maybe later today I'll join the fray over at lazy or pn.de.

Imo, mg became much more powerful at close range. Don't know if it was intended but now it really hurts even without strength.

ai wrote:@tundra:
The problem as I've understood it is not with non-moving-players as players who stands still will die no matter what weapon. The problem is with moving targets.
I need to find time to try this online as well, haven't had the time yet. Maybe later today I'll join the fray over at lazy or pn.de.

I think the problem is the obsession with the idea of 'map control'. This belief system leads to maps where the 'powerful' weapons are located strategically such that the player or team with the best spawn position can control access to those weapons, and consequently, 'control' the map.

So if a secondary weapon (such as the crylink) becomes powerful enough for a player to take back control of the nex and rl, there is this cacophony of wailing and whining about how powerful it is, and how the force is out of balance, leading to the dark side of CL, MG and EL spammers against the nex Jedi knights.

So, to bring balance back to the force, the proletariat need to have their weapon power turned down, so the elite guard can take back control of the game.

Yeah, I know that sounds silly. That's because it is.

flea

Can we please NOT mixup stuff? Antilag in 2.4.2 was broken by movement interpolation at the wrong time, thats a known fact and is very likely the cause for your misses during that test! Antilag in svn (upcoming version) IS fixed. And just to make sure antilag is run SERVER-SIDE so, for a good test you would need a current svn server.

Now lets please get back to the topic which is the 'new antilagged hitscan-ballistic bullets in current svn' (due to popular demand now the default). Which means that the bullets still do a curve due to gravity but still are hitscan and thus can be antilagged and should give people the familar feeling they have about those guns.. So please forget everything you tested about the SG/MG/CR the last few days and TRY AGAIN on a CURRENT svn server. To make sure you are on a current svn server try lazy dog or the planetnexuiz.de server which also collect weapon stats!
If you play on an other server you risk not knowing which exact version they run and that might very well give you a bad idea about the 'current' guns!

divVerent wrote:

GreEn`mArine wrote:- testing long distance shots with MG secondary showed how slow the bullets are (they are really too slow)

Not all bullets are supersonic. The MG and SG bullets are slightly below speed of sound. What's wrong with that? CR is supersonic of course.

When I read that I first thought "oh, are bullets really slower than sound?". Well, I'm a noob in weapon tecnology. Dunno.

Then I started the silvercity map and enabled the speedometer. Running without jumping gave me a speed of 23mp/h, running & jumping brought me up to 31mp/h. Bounced by a jumppad accelerated me to 98mp/h.

Now I'm quite sure I know what's wrong with bullets at a realistic (?) speed in Nexuiz. If I'm wrong, don't hezitate to push my way of thinking into a correct direction again

i don't usually read this forum so i was shocked to find out that that diverent was running an official testing server of some sort. From my location most (german?) hosts are too latent to play on.

About the tracers: Nobody sees bullets fly through the air, it's an illusion you get when a stream of bullets take a similar path so you may get a twinkle effect in low light. In real life the smoke TRULY hits before the imaginary tracer. Muzzle velocity of M16 rifle: 3,510 m/s.

ihsan wrote:
Muzzle velocity of M16 rifle: 3,510 m/s.

Thats exactly what i was talking about: in real life even with an average rifle (not M16 or a sniper rifle rofl) for medium range of 100-200 meter you dont need to predict the distance that an average target makes too much, because during that 0.1 sec flytime it cant move that much usually. Maybe 10-30 cm, but its not a sniping simulator lol. So as conclusion on most maps (except sierpinsky, but on that range mg isnt working anyways) its correct to aim directly at the target, because it will always be within the effective range of mg, thats why the new antilag can be used on bullets without causing anything unrealistic. I also think that new playes will aim at the target by default, becuse it feels natural.

Also i would add thats why the antilagged shotgun is perfectly realistic.

ihsan wrote:Muzzle velocity of M16 rifle: 3,510 m/s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M16_rifle
Muzzle velocity
3,200 ft/s (975 m/s) (M16A1)
3,050 ft/s (930 m/s) (M16A2)

Edit it to the correct value on Wikipedia, if you have a more reliable source.

Also, tell the authors of the http://hypertextbook.com/facts/1999/MariaPereyra.shtml page.

divVerent wrote:

ihsan wrote:Muzzle velocity of M16 rifle: 3,510 m/s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M16_rifle
Muzzle velocity
3,200 ft/s (975 m/s) (M16A1)
3,050 ft/s (930 m/s) (M16A2)

Edit it to the correct value on Wikipedia, if you have a more reliable source.

Also, tell the authors of the http://hypertextbook.com/facts/1999/MariaPereyra.shtml page.

So the 0.1 sec flytime was correct for 100 meters

yeah, my swiss army rifle has 905 m/s projectiles.

by the way div0, that screenshot you showed looks awesome looking forward to the next nexuiz version (i know it won't look like that). good job