Here's the bottom line. Some people love the new models, some people don't. It's impossible to please all people so there's really not much one can do. This will always be the case.
I for one like the new models, however Electro is the one I like the least.

I like the new models, hower, I think I'll switch back to the old nade launcher, because I just can't tell apart the new shotgun from the grenade launcher from far

sweet

Just a quick opinion:

If the mortar is to the left, I would not say that that weapon shoots grenades. The new electro model suits the techy, alien feel of the weapon and its bullets/balls.

Just see here and try for yourself
http://forums.alientrap.local/viewtopic.php?t=4321

Easy way to test all guns:
sv_cheats 1; restart
*spawn*
impulse 99

I love the new models and only wish i could have helped make them.
My only criticism is that I think the new models are a bit too smooth and plastic-looking. The older materials had a truer metal feel. These look kinda like toy guns.
The only gun i miss a little is the old electro, the new one just doesn't look as powerful.

I may mess with the normals and specs to see if i can make them look even cooler.

One day I will be powerful.

I like the new models I think they look neat. The shotgun could maybe do with looking a little more shotgunny and less mortar like as someone mentioned above. Still a very nice model anyway.

I really like the look and feel of the new weapons overall. I think they give Nexuiz the futuristic feel that it's meant to have and they're definitely sleek.

I agree though that it's very difficult to tell some of them apart on the ground, especially from a distance. Maybe colors could be used to differentiate them more. I'm still hoping that it will get easier to tell them apart after a while.

I turned on the cheats and had a look at all the new weapons i'm really happy that so much improvement has been made on the aesthetics.

The only real change I would like to propose is that the New Hagar model replace the TAGSeeker instead of the old hagar. The single, high velocity rocket from a triple barrel is kinda dumb. The hagar and crylink needs some added detail to match the newer guns but i think their basic designs are great the way they are.

After testing new weapons for hours, i noticed only 1 quite annoying problem: i always rush like hell to pick up the dropped mortar, but after that i realise its just a goddamn shotgun

congratulations for the models!
Now the only weapon that need to be revisited is the crylink...

for me the major problem is the lack of distinction. models just look the same on quick glance. the old models had much different volumes[, shapes and colors, whilest the new ones are basically all a long barrel with some small appendages.

(weapon textures look very low-res to me too [built from svn].)

also the appearance affect the attributed strength of the weapon.
shotgun now looks actually powerful enough to be used, but does not look like a traditional shotgun anymore - laser-point visier anyone?
the hagar was formerly understandable as some automated machine gun with bigger (but not that powerful) exploding bullets, but now i dont know how to view its appearance.
for the electro i just miss the big plasma chamber which was the source of all that funny e-spam

anyway, i am sure i will get along.
keep on doing!

Please replace the TAG model with the new hagar and bring back the old hagar. A 3 barrel hagar is ridiculous.

I feel really strongly about this and we'll have to live with it for at least 6 months.

+1

ihsan wrote:I turned on the cheats and had a look at all the new weapons i'm really happy that so much improvement has been made on the aesthetics.

The only real change I would like to propose is that the New Hagar model replace the TAGSeeker instead of the old hagar. The single, high velocity rocket from a triple barrel is kinda dumb. The hagar and crylink needs some added detail to match the newer guns but i think their basic designs are great the way they are.

The TAG seeker model makes sence for what it does. The New Hagar model should NOT replace the TAG seeker model: that is rediculious. If you want a more eyecandied seeker open it up in blender or maya or whatever and work on it. You can't just shuffle around models to diffrent guns.

tundramagi wrote:If you want a more eyecandied seeker open it up in blender or maya or whatever and work on it. You can't just shuffle around models to diffrent guns.

2 late for this release.

tundramagi wrote:You can't just shuffle around models to diffrent guns.

HUH? These have been in svn for a week, people aren't even used to them yet. The first time i got the new hagar i literally said "W T F ". If it stays like this 'till release THEN you'll have a point.


Anyway, I was hoping that just replacing the models would do the trick but the tag seeker emits projectiles from an unusually low position in alternate fire. I'm afraid some QC changes would be needed to complete the switch, which may be more than the devs are willing to do at this 11'th hour.

Anyway, I was hoping that just replacing the models would do the trick but the tag seeker emits projectiles from an unusually low position in alternate fire. I'm afraid some QC changes would be needed to complete the switch, which may be more than the devs are willing to do at this 11'th hour.

Why are you under the delusion that "the devs" want to make the switch you demand in the first place?

Tell me, why are you under this delusion that you declare that the new hagar model should be switched into the tag-seeker position instead and THUSLY, from __YOUR DECLARATION__ the developers then in their minds wish to make that change that you just demanded (but, however it's just "too late" perhaps for the required QC changes that they would need to make to achieve their goal (the goal which you transmitted to them and they accepted)... they'll surely do it later.)

I would like to know why you think that? Are you in the habit of getting what you want without working towards it yourself?

tundramagi wrote:I would like to know why you think that? Are you in the habit of getting what you want without working towards it yourself?

Quite the opposite. I know that this has a very high failure probability because of the way the models were committed at the last moment and once 2.5 is out it wouldn't make sense. I have already worked at it by basically doing one third the work myself (wasn't much). I don't mind changing the QC myself either.
So far it would seem that myself and CBritail are for this and you are clearly against. Everybody likes the models but some little concerns are still out there. I'm not trying to be a vocal minority here. There are many other little criticisms i can make but at this point it's not worth the dev's time. I just want opensource principle to run it's course as best it can under the circumstances.

tundramagi wrote:

Anyway, I was hoping that just replacing the models would do the trick but the tag seeker emits projectiles from an unusually low position in alternate fire. I'm afraid some QC changes would be needed to complete the switch, which may be more than the devs are willing to do at this 11'th hour.

Why are you under the delusion that "the devs" want to make the switch you demand in the first place?

In point of fact, Morphed expressed to me that he thinks that the Hagar (new model) should take the functionality, at least the primary fire, of the TAG seeker.

torus wrote:

tundramagi wrote:

Anyway, I was hoping that just replacing the models would do the trick but the tag seeker emits projectiles from an unusually low position in alternate fire. I'm afraid some QC changes would be needed to complete the switch, which may be more than the devs are willing to do at this 11'th hour.

Why are you under the delusion that "the devs" want to make the switch you demand in the first place?

In point of fact, Morphed expressed to me that he thinks that the Hagar (new model) should take the functionality, at least the primary fire, of the TAG seeker.

We have the TAG Seeker and the Hagar the Hagar should not be the tag seeker
If he wants the hagar model to be the tag seeker model... then he should have said it was the tag seeker model (or say it now) but not merge the two weapons. It is good to have variety.

I like the old hagar look for the hagar somewhat, but don't have a problem with the new look either. Also, I like the TagSeeker model as it is as a concept (though it could be made higher poly) the short stout upangled 4 barrels are great. Maybe morphed could quickly make a higher poly tag-seeker? The concept is there in the current model, it wouldn't take too much to spruce it up.

The new models are very professional.

tundramagi wrote:then he should have said it was the tag seeker model (or say it now) but not merge the two weapons.

No one is talking about merging. Just instead of giving Hagar the new model, give it to the TAG instead and let the Hagar have it's old model back (people are actually for this, some really like that old model).
Plus it would make sense having the new model for TAG especially with secondary fire.

ai wrote:

tundramagi wrote:then he should have said it was the tag seeker model (or say it now) but not merge the two weapons.

No one is talking about merging. Just instead of giving Hagar the new model, give it to the TAG instead and let the Hagar have it's old model back (people are actually for this, some really like that old model).
Plus it would make sense having the new model for TAG especially with secondary fire.

Could he add an upper handle to the new-TAG model then if it is to be such? I really like how the current TAG is a lower, bulkier, thing you need to carry (can't fire from sholder). If he would add the TAG handle and trigger (or similar) to his new model that would be great.

Well, i would dare to personally come up with the idea of merging the hagar and tag, and the reason is because we have 2 underused models, with 1-1 technically not too usable secondary fire mode. So they could be merged into a new hagar, thats primary is the current TAGs primary, and the secondary is the old hagars primary. And the model could be the 2.5s new hagar. It could shoot 3 (stronger) homing rockets from the 3 barrel it has, so it could also make sense. This would result a strong and very usable weapon for close and midle range. Im not sure it worth to have another weapon reasoning 2 semi used weapons, it would also be more newbie friendly to get know fewer weapons. Just compare current hagars primary with hlac primary, and also with TAGs secondary. The difference is not too big. Maybe its time for some weapon optimization. that would result a weapon deserving the placement of #8 in the arsenal

/me likes what was written above

indeed.

Thats cool to hear, and the nicest thing that it requires NO new code at all
Please if someone could set this new hagar together fast with copying the proper blocks between the two quakeC files, upload it for testing, I just checked out the seekers file, and its different from what i got used to (other weapons have seperated blocks for pirmary and secondary, this one looks pretty mixed-up)

Originally I was holding this for my "weapon feature recommendation and optimization" thread that im willing to open once 2.5 is out and stable (i have some cool and unique ideas), but i think that weapon balance is so awesome right now in this game, that only these 2 weapons features are breaking it a little, so we could perfect it.
Also I know there is only about 1-2 weeks left until the release, but dont forget that these weapon features are already balanced, so its just a port.

The Mortar is just sweet. Electro is awsome, hagar... is fine, I don't use it anyway. Shotgun, nice, but not really as I expected.

Are weapons necessarily limited to 2 modes? Would it be possible to have secondary fire switch primary fire between 3 or more modes?

(It would be interesting too if weapon models could have "attachments" that enabled modes, but that's probably more complicated than anyone would be willing to code right now.)

I'm not sure that I like Franco's idea though. The hagar secondary fire is useful around corners sometimes and the tag seeker's secondary fire is useful at close range. Although it fits the new hagar model, the tag seeker's primary fire would make the most sense as an additional mode of the RL but that would really require multi-mode weapons which would probably be too drastic for most people (and if it's not already possible with the existing code then there's probably little interest in implementing it).

"secondary" could switch between many modes, yes. i played around a bit with this, but i diffident really like the mechanic. it feels clumsy ingame, specially when there enough modes to make it interesting (3+).

Tags secondary is designed to counter incoming missiles, specially those homing ones from another tag its use are kinda questionable tough since the tag is a overall infective weapon and the homing rockets are to dumb to be a real problem to shake. btw, the tag was originally designed as a replacement for the hagar. it had 3 modes in that incarnation tough, primary-hagar like, fire tag and flac. the seeking rockets where smarter too.

Xeno wrote:Are weapons necessarily limited to 2 modes? Would it be possible to have secondary fire switch primary fire between 3 or more modes?

(It would be interesting too if weapon models could have "attachments" that enabled modes, but that's probably more complicated than anyone would be willing to code right now.)

I'm not sure that I like Franco's idea though. The hagar secondary fire is useful around corners sometimes and the tag seeker's secondary fire is useful at close range. Although it fits the new hagar model, the tag seeker's primary fire would make the most sense as an additional mode of the RL but that would really require multi-mode weapons which would probably be too drastic for most people (and if it's not already possible with the existing code then there's probably little interest in implementing it).

Well, i also like the idea itself, having that switch between modes, but im not really sure new gamers coming into nexuiz for some quick arcade-like fun would like to learn about 30-40 fire modes for the weapons alltogether. (if anyone can make up that many REALLY unique mode, truly deserves the Nobel-price) Also this would break weapon combinations and the access to the features would take some time, that im not sure all would appriciate during the heat of the fight. BUT I truly support this idea to make an universal weapon for nexuiz with different fire modes (4-5), that are toggleable, but because of the toggle not making it usable in combinations, just like camping rifle, (Maybe a BFG?)

You pointed out that hagars secondary is useful around corners, there are 2 things i would like to point out about that: first, the ammo consumation, and the low damage results its only usable if you use up tons of ammo, while standing in relatively one place spamming a corner with the most precious ammo type (rocketlauncher and mortar needs it too). Second, we already have so many cornerweapons, I mean why do we need crylink, electro, hagar and mortar to shoot around corner into the misterious void?

The TAGs secondary is also a feature that i think noone would miss, it is meant to work as an anti-rocket, but the problem is that on a NORMAL map (not a giga-mega-huge, relatively empty one) you just take a close corner and you already escaped TAGs primary rockets. If its shot from distance you terminate them with rocketlauncher before they reach you. And it doesnt protect against rocket missiles either.