Will defer work in 2.5.3? I tested it before on svn server and it didnt work, but in current svn it does. Can someone tell me an official information on this Thx

Of course it will, but powerup spawning is slightly randomized and announced in advance to give timers less of an advantage.

as for defer, my server runs an unofficial patch that detects modified files (you have some too, you cheater, delete your modded effectinfo) and also regularily clears all defers so long ones do not work.

this server patch will never be published, but perhaps given to ladder server admins.

Thank you very much for response.

To clarify the "perhaps" in the last post: ladder server admins will get the patch if they promise not to give it away (and if they have to give it away for whatever reason, only give away the parts they really have to).

Because, once the patch gets public, it can be easily circumvented.

I would go for distributing binaries for the ladder server admins anyway. This would mean just the 2 dedicated server binaries for x86 and x64 linux architecture, as basically all ladder servers (should) run on such systems. Maybe also a windows binary. I know distributing binaries is bad in general, because:
- only works for one version of Nexuiz
- only supports the architectures that it was compiled for
- issues of trust when giving someone something that is compiled, he doesn't know what's in there
- needs someone who is willing to compile it (I guess I could do it)

the advantages are, however:
- simplicity for the installation: You can not assume every ladder server admin can setup a compile environment for compiling an engine or gamecode ("can not" either means "no knowledge" or "no time")
- when using binaries instead of patch files, ladder admins who are able to code can not read the patch and benefit from it by circumventing the protection themselves (don't look at me )
- you don't need any promises from ladder server admins to not give anything away if they only have the binary

EDIT: why does the topic say 2.5.3 ? Isn't the next version 2.5.2 ?

Replied to this to Green in private.

GreEn`mArine wrote:when using binaries instead of patch files, ladder admins who are able to code can not read the patch and benefit from it by circumventing the protection themselves (don't look at me )

You do know about reverse engineering right ? And you also do realize that there ARE people out there who are willing to spend time and effort to circumvent any defence you put up just for the fun of it?

Of course, but if I am able to waste people's time, then... f*ck YEAH

I see. What's next up, cost tag and DRM?

GreEn`mArine wrote:Of course, but if I am able to waste people's time, then... f*ck YEAH

PS: I can't beleive i'm actually seeing this.

Um.. one problem. Last I checked Nexuiz was GPLed which means if you distribute binaries with the changes made you MUST distribute the source, or make it available, to those that you've distributed said binaries to.

Making the source unavailable, even for reasons which are not inherently evil, flies in the face of any FOSS project and shouldn't be done.

Personal patches for your server are one thing, so div is fine, but if he ever distributed binaries people could legitimately ask for the source for the patch and he'd have to give it to them to comply with the license.

Which is exactly why binaries won't be distributed.

BTW, I know very well how to circumvent it. It would work only for a certain time. Everyone knows that much

alpha wrote:You do know about reverse engineering right ? And you also do realize that there ARE people out there who are willing to spend time and effort to circumvent any defence you put up just for the fun of it?

You're not one of them

Div can only gather information from packets sent from client to server.

Sure, so? I can also define what the client sends to the server. There is so much stuff the server can request.

Ok, you can define (you mean request some info from the client?) but you can't control if the data would be sent unchanged once one knows what was requested.

I know that very well. As stated before: I KNOW how to circumvent it.

Heck, it's not even used on any ladder server and you're already on your way to find ways to cheat. Green, I suppose you should ban alien from the ladder for this. One cheater less. And alpha too.

Do you have ANY proof that I've ever cheated: modded effectinfo or csprogs?

Actually, there is no need to ban me from anywhere, I can't find a way to get stable 30 fps, so my playing currently only consists of testing changes.


Maybe instead of making anti-cheat tools, one could remove/add things (which are bypassed/added by cheaters) for all players and can't be stopped otherwise? That is removing blinding from hagar and crylink, making camping rifle traceable, setting fbskins as default, removing autoscan weapons all together, etc... This way we could have cheatproof version of Nexuiz and one couldn't accuse other person that he is cheating.

Well, why are you so keen to find a way to cheat, and to publish it for everyone else, then?

Because those who know how to cheat (e.g. alpha) will be better (or claim being better, others are noobs, yeah?) than those who don't or don't do that. I'm all the way for equality between people.

In other words: AIMBOT FOR EVERYONE

is what you are saying?

divVerent wrote:In other words: AIMBOT FOR EVERYONE

is what you are saying?

You can always find most radical points in my posts. Yes, aimbot for everyone would of course accomplish equality between people principle. If you think, that this is the only one possible solution, that's ok with me.

But I would rather suggest creating cheatproof Nexuiz version (you can call it "dumbed down" for retards) with things I mentioned above (I've edited my previous than previous post if you haven't noticed). This version could be used at ladders and normal version could be used for traditional fun gameplay or tourneys with people WHO YOU CAN TRUST (theoretically, practically it's impossible).

Alien wrote:Do you have ANY proof that I've ever cheated: modded effectinfo or csprogs?

Actually, there is no need to ban me from anywhere, I can't find a way to get stable 30 fps, so my playing currently only consists of testing changes.


Maybe instead of making anti-cheat tools, one could remove/add things (which are bypassed/added by cheaters) for all players and can't be stopped otherwise? That is removing blinding from hagar and crylink, making camping rifle traceable, setting fbskins as default, removing autoscan weapons all together, etc... This way we could have cheatproof version of Nexuiz and one couldn't accuse other person that he is cheating.

No. The whole point of the camping rifle is to be untracable. Its there to bring the enjoyment of say, the unreal or unreal tournament rifle to nexuiz if you wish to swap it in vs nex (or use it in your maps). No. No. No.

Alien wrote:Because those who know how to cheat (e.g. alpha) will be better (or claim being better, others are noobs, yeah?) than those who don't or don't do that. I'm all the way for equality between people.

Since when is equality good? I've never seen anything good come from equality for everyone. It sounds nice (because we are taught it sounds nice), but it's no fun when put into practice.

tundramagi wrote:

Alien wrote:Because those who know how to cheat (e.g. alpha) will be better (or claim being better, others are noobs, yeah?) than those who don't or don't do that. I'm all the way for equality between people.

Since when is equality good? I've never seen anything good come from equality for everyone. It sounds nice (because we are taught it sounds nice), but it's no fun when put into practice.

Your theories are not appreciated here and I would request mods to remove them if you are going to run the thread again. You theories ruin the definition of contest, where each participant has equal rights to prove he is best. And not unlike in real life, where one is made to obey, we can impose fair rules here at least.

Removing hitscan stuff would be a really bad move given that we'd lose most of our players for that.

The other things simply are against what makes Nexuiz Nexuiz. Sure we can make the game black-white-red, black for bg, white for players, red for shots...

Alien wrote:Your theories are not appreciated here and I would request mods to remove them if you are going to run the thread again. You theories ruin the definition of contest, where each participant has equal rights to prove he is best. And not unlike in real life, where one is made to obey, we can impose fair rules here at least.

Why should a woman be in a contest against her husband? Why should men be forced to live like that if they wish to have the company of a female (to reproduce, etc). Your theory; that only Men who obey women, who agree that women should compete against them, who agree that it is right for the woman to deny "her man" what he desires and that it must be punished to the fullest extents possible if he chooses to use his natrual abilities to take what he wishes from his wife rather than be controled by her demands and "market power", that only these men who obey, who agree to such things, may pass on their genes to the next generation..., that theory is in practice and is wicked.

well first of all the ladder I administrate is not much of an authority anymore, since it is not really used. The only authority it has left are the definition of the ladder rules which do, however, only really effect the ladder servers running it. But of course that is a needed thing imo, to have people who make sure to setup rules so that the ladder servers (or lets call them competitive gaming servers) are all configured equal. Although I guess I'll hand over that job to others soon anyway since I'm studying abroad for a couple of months, not planning to do administrative Nexuiz tasks in that time (the plan is to hand control over to nexuizclans.com who are having their server configs being very similar/based on the ladder configs).

As for the further proceeding regarding the patch I'll contact you via IRC anyway.

I wouldn't be against a mod for only prediction weapons. In fact, you would probably never see me again except inside that server.