Singleplayer Story Mode - Ideas/Development [Spoilers!]

Developer discussion of experimental fixes, changes, and improvements.

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Sat Aug 01, 2009 9:05 pm

  • i agree. i've been getting bored of the typical Q3, etc, spawn, kill, die, respawn, capture flag, die, respawn, kill. gameplay.
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    Mizu Kitsune
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Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:41 pm

  • [sorry for double post]
    How bout making it an mmorps or Roleplay shooter? and be completely open ended where you can do side story things or follow the main story and choose your side [ie good, evil, etc].
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Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:17 am

  • Mizu Kitsune wrote:[sorry for double post]
    How bout making it an mmorps or Roleplay shooter? and be completely open ended where you can do side story things or follow the main story and choose your side [ie good, evil, etc].


    that would be VERY hard to pull off..it would require MAJOR changes to be made..
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    MC SE7EN
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Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:23 am

  • not necessarily. experience and money as well as menus can be handled with qc.
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Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:30 am

  • Mizu Kitsune wrote:How bout making it an mmorps


    You mean something more than coop campaign mode?

    or Roleplay shooter?


    What features or gameplay mechanics would that involve?

    and be completely open ended where you can do side story things or follow the main story and choose your side [ie good, evil, etc].


    What might make more sense is one of those "theatre of war" features of some modern games, where you would choose which battles (levels / maps) to fight next from a map, be it offensive or defensive.

    But this would be alot more code work. I would recommend us starting with something linear and simple, then adding things like this later on. Baby steps, so to speak.
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Sun Aug 09, 2009 7:20 pm

  • Per ai's request, here are another couple of model WIPs. The first pic is the Hallurchin character class and the second is the second terran UGV 'character' class (armed with the rocket launcher) with the first one beside it for reference.

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Sun Aug 16, 2009 5:26 pm

  • First draft of the story for the whole first campaign:

    Campaign Story wrote:In the near to not so distant future, Humanity's early deep space exploration uncovers on not so distant world, an ancient alien device of unknown purpose.

    The team of scientists sent to study this artifact activates it during one of their experiments and the device creates an anomaly nearby. Afterwards they learn from deciphering the microscopic runes that cover the surface of the artifact, that the anomaly is some kind of passage to somewhere near the core of the galaxy. Further study reveals that the artifact itself that created the anomaly is a simple beacon for whatever created and now maintains the passage. Such being the case, the passage cannot be closed locally.

    Faced with the sudden and very uncertain situation, the Military is sent in and takes over the site, and establishes Nightscape, a hardened compound surrounding the artifact. They launch Operation Night Cross, which sends a recon team of well equipped soldiers and scientists through the passage, now designated “The Tunnel”. But the team never returns. Plans are prepared for sending a second team, but with no proof travel through the Tunnel is even survivable, official authorization is never granted.

    Instead, a black operation is put in motion, Operation Night Raven. An entire squadron is assembled from mercenaries, rebel militias, test subjects, criminals and volunteers with no living relatives, and over the next few months trained in basic astronautics and various combat roles. Then equipped with the latest and most advanced gear and the promise of riches, pardons and glory upon their successful return, the squadron is sent through the portal, accompanied by the aerospace corvette Raven.

    Their mission is to uncover the whereabouts of the first team, discover the source of the portal, but most of all return back with any reconnaissance at all.

    When Night Raven Squadron emerges from the Tunnel, they find themselves standing on the inner surface of a massive Dyson sphere, of similar alien construction to the beacon artifact, surrounding a small star and a system of four terrestrial planets. Shortly afterwards, the Squadron discovers that an unseen force radiating out from the local end of the Tunnel prevents them from approaching it by any means. It seems return will not be possible.

    Preparing for a long stay, a field base is established near by the Tunnel and powered down Raven. But shortly thereafter the base is attacked suddenly from opposite directions and then from underneath by hordes of strange “things” of varying reported morphologies and wielding equally strange, diverse and powerful weapons. After a long and brutal onslaught, the base is nearly overrun and the leader of the Squadron is killed along with his Raven Squad protection. But then as the different groups of creatures and machines converge in the base, they begin to slaughter each other, giving the surviving squads their chance to retreat, scattering in all directions and ultimately taking cover down deep into the tunnels, ducts and labyrinths of the internal structure of the place itself.

    Underneath the surface of the inverted world, the surviving squads continue to stay on the move seeking to find and regroup with each other and evade the alien forces they wisely assume are still hunting them.

    At the same time, a Soldier isolated from his squad (Crow Squad) during the retreat, discovers underground a remnant of the first group sent through the Tunnel to this place, Night Cross, in the form of a coded message pointing to a distant place called the “Library” that they were attempting to reach. After a dangerous journey he finally arrives there and finds a chamber area unusually dense with alien machinery, as well as another log entry from Night Cross.

    The log describes this ancient place as a kind of public library which they were able to access using a combination of code keys and thereby uncovered basic information on the surrounding sphere structure, which they have named “Nexuiz”. As they explain, Nexuiz is a relic from at least 2 million years ago (they cannot say for certain do to the unknown relative year length of the builders), which uses the entire output of the encompassed star to generate vastly faster than light travel through space to numerous preprogrammed locations of the galaxy via “Tunnels”, like the one used by the Terran expeditions to get here on Nexuiz. These Tunnels that scattered across the equator of Nexuiz are controlled by the two Nexus Matrices inside planet-sized structures at the Poles. They believe that if one could be reached, it might be possible to reverse the “Flow” of the Tunnel to get back home. The message confirms they will attempt to reach a Pole at all costs and leaves a map of the fastest route to a distant Junction point to the Poles. Before heading out on their trail, the Soldier recollects the code keys and accesses the Library himself, attaining a basic but vast knowledge of Nexuiz.

    The Soldier continues the route, encountering heavier resistance as he goes, until he reaches one of the major stations for the thousand-kilometers-long cargo Trams that run the equator of Nexuiz through one of the two super tunnels. Here he meets up with his own Crow squad, the Commander of which has now been left with command of the main surviving group of Raven Squadron. They are already planning to board the next cargo Tram that docks with the station to hopefully escape from their alien hunters and when the Soldier divulges the intelligence he uncovered from the Night Cross logs and Library, the Commander decides to make the Pole Junction their destination after they’re aboard.

    Unfortunately as the Tram is sited approaching in the far away distance, a major alien force finally catches up with them, made up of the “Cephadarian” and “Arthrolid” creatures, as they are now being called. After a major fight to hold their ground, the Tram docks and Raven Squadron immediately falls back into it, using the docking point as a chokepoint to hold off their enemies until the Tram begins to pull away.

    The Squadron now finds that it is at least temporarily safe from their primary enemy, but they are still far from secure as they learn they are not alone aboard the massive transport; the place is swarming with the “Hallurchin” creatures as well as alien fighting machines. The Commander splits up Raven Squadron into Squads that take positions across the width of the Tram and then has them push forward to clear out the dangerous occupants and secure the transport. It is a difficult fight, complicated by the velocity of the Tram countering Nexuiz’ centrifugal pseudo-gravity until it becomes a near-weightless combat environment.

    A day after securing the Tram, it arrives at a terminal very close to the Polar Junction, separated only by some kind of loading dock. As the Squadron crosses the loading facility, a large alien craft appears over the horizon and sets down in front of them, blocking their advance. Aliens begin emerging from it forcing the Squadron behind cover with their fire. Then a second UFO, a much larger, glowing orb descends down and hovers a distance above and more creatures begin floating down from it, raining down their weapon’s fire as they do. And so begins the toughest fight yet, with several Squads falling in the process, until shelter is finally reached in the Junction, which seals itself closed automatically when the alien forces approach in pursuit.

    Inside the Junction another Night Cross Log is discovered, revealing that the Night Cross team took the route to the Southern Pole. And now it seems Raven Squadron has to decide which of the two Poles it is going to set out for. But fearing being cornered in another ambush, the Commander decides to split Raven Squadron into two teams send each to a different Pole. He will lead one team from Vulture Squad to the Southern Pole. And he appoints the Soldier as the new Commander of Crow Squad which will lead the other team to the Northern Pole. Both teams board the Mass Driver Transports headed for the respective Poles and they depart.

    After a few hours, Crow Squad’s Transport slows to a stop at a Solar Complex halfway to the Northern Pole. Drawing on the data left by the Night Cross logs, the Soldier realizes that sabotaging this complex could provide a window of opportunity for getting through whatever detection and defense network might await them on their path to the Northern Pole. So he orders an attack on it during the time before the Transport resumes its circuit. Resistance in this hot, low gravity place comes in the form of various sentry machines and a new kind of alien not previously encountered, that at first is mistaken to be another one of the hostile war machines, that is later named “Exosilex”. Once the area is secure, a fusion bomb is deployed at the heart of the facility, set for detonation shortly after the time the Transport is estimated to arrive at the Northern Pole. Crow Squad then returns to the Transport and it departs.

    When Crow’s Transport reaches its final destination and disembarks, they find themselves at a Space Dock, with the great Northern Pole in the background across thousands of kilometers of open space. As planned, local power is soon disrupted from the bombing of the Solar Complex and the Soldier takes the opportunity to board and take over what appears to be a small alien Warship at the Space Dock. Onboard they encounter more of the Exosilex alien discovered in the Solar Complex, which puts up a bloody fight and holds off Crow Squad’s attempts to take the bridge. But it is suggested that since the interior environment of both this ship and the Solar Complex is extremely high temperature, that the opposing species is some kind of thermophile with probably limited tolerance for the cold. So they take the Reactor Room and bring down the environmental temperature to freezing levels and subsequently are able to take the rest of the ship. With some trial and error, the Squad’s technicians are able to fly the ship out of the dock and head for the Northern Pole at flank speed.

    When they near the Pole however, they detect no available entry points that have not been sealed off or heavily fortified. So with no other option, the Soldier has the warship fire heavily on a part of the Pole’s surface and then ram into it, penetrating and lodging the ship in its outer layer. Emerging into the interior from the wreckage, the Squad spots inbound hostiles, which have been attracted by the breach of the outer Pole. While more enemies fly in and attack, Crow Squad runs and fights across the open surface to a nearby Photonic Lift platform. As this elevator begins to rise toward the core of the Pole, they continue to be harassed by attacking patrols until the elevator platform accelerates to such a speed that the patrols are left behind.

    After a short while, the Photonic Lift slows down and arrives at the Pole Core, inside of which they expect to finally reach the Nexus Matrix. But instead they only get far enough into its interior to find a situation they cannot overcome. In this environment with its toxic atmosphere, channels and ducts of sulfuric acid and molten metals, winding passages that lead only to fully sealed dead ends, they are cornered by an Exosilex response force unprecedented in numbers, organization and determination. The Soldier orders a full retreat to avoid getting cornered, but it is already too late. As Crow Squad scatters down every possible avenue of escape at once, it only encounters more of the enemy. The Soldier sees many of his squad-mates shot down or incapacitated around him before being knocked unconscious himself by a large ammo explosion from a nearby wrecked UGV.

    When he regains consciousness, the Soldier finds himself alone in something like a huge crater on the outside of the Pole, the ground covered in dunes and hills of pulverized bone and metal, scattered with debris and alien corpses. Nearby he finds a small ammunition cache. Then a loud alarm or horn blasts out from the edges of the crater and about a half dozen of a familiar kind of hostile alien creatures begin to appear from trap doors in the distance and advance. Through clever tactics and quick response the Soldier defeats each of the adversaries. Then the alarm plays again, this time twice. More hostiles of more diverse types appear and attack, but the Soldier defeats them as well. A large door then opens in the center of the crater and a few other Crow Squad survivors are released. Then the alarm sounds again three times. A large force attacks; the Soldier and his Squad amazingly manages to barely defeat this wave as well. Then from around the crater echoes a distorted and strange voice that speaks- “For a millennium of chaos we have sought the instrument of our reemergence, but now we see that it may have come to us.” An alien transport takes up position overhead and the artificial gravity reverses itself, sending all the survivors into the warship’s open hold bays. Inside the Soldier finds many more survivors from his Squad and some others.

    After a long voyage, the alien transport lands and opens its doors to release the Crow Squad survivors. Outside they see that they are inside a dome habitat surrounded by a dozen large screens displaying alien glyphs. Beyond the dome is a hellish, very active volcanic environment and alien attack ships flying overhead. The surrounding screens flash on and in each of them appears an Exosilex. The echoing distorted voice of the Exosilex returns- “You have assaulted our domain. What is it you seek?” After a brief argument between his Squad, the Soldier decides to answer this question honestly- “We seek a way back to where we came from.” The Exosilex then explain how their former allies the Arthrolid and Cephadarian have revolted against them, attacked the Terran expeditionary teams so that they could not potentially aid the Exosilex, and now would block the Terran survivors from returning through their Tunnel. They then propose that if the Terrans aid them in a plot to defeat their ‘mutual enemies’, the Arthrolid and Cephadarian, they can and will use their control of the Nexus Matrix to reverse the flow of the Terrans’ Tunnel so that they can return. The Soldier agrees to their proposal and the Exosilex advise him to prepare his forces for their first mission and then board their gunboats in an adjacent hangar. He complies and the gunboats depart.

    In-flight, the Soldier and his Crow Squad are introduced to an individual Exosilex that will serve as their handler and adviser for the course of the campaign. He provides their briefing, explaining that their first target is the central Arthrolid Outpost on this volcanic planet closest to Nexuiz’ sun, which is also the world of origin for the Exosilex species. Destroying it will relieve the Exosilex of an entrenched nuisance, but more importantly will show that the Terrans can be trusted as their allies. The plan for the attack is simple, with the Arthrolid expecting an attack from the Exosilex, the Terrans can infiltrate to the Outpost’s Keep and sabotage its defense controls there, allowing the team to be extracted and the Outpost easily destroyed by external bombardment. Crow Squad completes this task with efficiency and earns some respect from its Exosilex Handler.

    After Crow Squad is extracted it is given the briefing for its second mission, this one taking place on the desert planet second orbit from the local sun. On this world the Arthrolid have a Subterranean Hangar where they are holding the Terran’s old aerospace corvette, the Raven, which was captured and brought here shortly after the Terran’s arrival. With the help of the Handler’s own Exosilex forces, it helps the Crow Squad recaptures fly it into orbit. An anti-matter bomb is left behind by the Exosilex forces in the Hangar, destroying it and covering up any evidence the Terran ship was ever there.

    Now safely back in space, the Handler reveals the ultimate plan his species has for the Terrans in defeating the Arthrolid and Cephadarian. While the majority of the Exosilex fleet pierces the enemy defenses in a massive final conflict, the Terrans will slip through the chaos via the Raven and inflict nearly crippling surgical strikes at hearts of the Arthrolid and Cephadarian civilizations. While in actuality this campaign will most likely set back the Exosilex at least as much as it will their enemies, the bold push and the destruction caused by the Terrans and their obviously “alien” vessel will create the illusion that the Terrans are a new and powerful Auxiliary ally of the Exosilex that have tipped the balance of power strongly in their favor. And this will lead to a strategically compromising surrender of both the Arthrolid and Cephadarian in return for them receiving back their status as Auxiliaries of the Exosilex empire.

    So the campaign begins with the Raven and the Handler’s escort fleet entering the Tunnel to Cephadarian space on its way to the first target, the Cephadarian’s Fleet Forge. Along the way they engage a Cephadarian Shroud Ship, which Crow Squad boards and takes control over and then uses to bypass the Fleet Forge’s defense membrane and enter the station. They then sabotage the Fleet Forge’s anti-gravity coolant system so that it falls into the sun it closely orbits. With the Cephadarian left in disarray by this disaster, the forces then return to Nexuiz.

    The campaign then turns against the Arthrolid, with the target being the Arthrolid leadership. The first strike is made against the Arthrolid origin world’s primary military star port, to block any escape from the world of the highest commanders. However, after arriving there and getting access to the Runway track, Crow Squad finds that the Arthrolid flagship is already in position preparing for launch, which leaves no time to destroy or disable it. So the Soldier orders his squad to fallback to their ship and attempt to intercept the flagship from orbit. Then he rushes down the heavily inclined Runway in an attempt to get aboard the Arthrolid flagship before it can launch. He makes it and it takes off into orbit. Onboard, the Arthrolid Leader sends its generals to kill the intruder, but both fail, so it decides to engage the Soldier in a duel. After a fierce running firefight between the two through the great throne chamber, the Soldier is the one that still stands and subsequently the Arthrolid flagship surrenders to the Terrans.

    In the chaotic aftermath, the majority of the Arthrolid and Cephadarian surrender to the Exosilex, as they had predicted, with the Arthrolid and Cephadarian majorities giving up their control of most of their holdings of Nexuiz’ Equatorial Belt, in return for receiving back their status as Auxiliaries of the Exosilex’ Empire. The Terran’s former Handler is given command of the first product of this new truce, a combined fleet and force of Exosilex, Hallurchin and the first recent initiates of Arthrolid and Cephadarian. The Handler explains to the Soldier that along with his new command, it will be tasked with ensuring a lasting peace for Nexuiz, but right now it will make sure that the promise of its species to return the Terrans to their home is fulfilled. And so the Terrans lead the Handler to the Tunnel from which they came and the Exosilex now aware of its location are able to reverse its flow and allow the Terrans through. As its final duty as their commander and adviser, the Handler gives the Soldier a coded message to be taken back to his species upon his return.

    As the Terrans and the Handler’s forces approach the Tunnel, they spot a great battle in progress between the Hallurchin and a large contingent of the remaining Arthrolid and Cephadarian rebel forces. So the still-able survivors jump this last hurdle, fighting a path to the Tunnel for the Raven and then following it through, putting the violent and alien realm behind them.

    On the other side, the tired and battle-worn remnants of Raven Squadron emerge before the friendly garrison of Nightscape, its commanding officer shouting over the com channels for all forces to hold fire. Recovery craft are dispatched and pick up the survivors near the mouth of the Tunnel, bringing them back to the base’s field laboratory for medical examination. There the Soldier hands over the message from the Exosilex to the Nightscape base commander and research team, who don’t believe the Soldier’s explanation of it being a diplomatic message from an alien species.

    Hours later, the Soldier is awakened from his quarantine chamber and brought to the cryptology laboratory, where the scientists there ask him so many frantic questions at once about the message artifact he delivered that he can’t understand any of them, until they are finally silenced by the shouting of the research director. Then the director asks the Soldier tersely- “’Your surrender and admission to the trials for position of Auxiliary are accepted’, what does that mean?!” Puzzled but with growing alarm, the Soldier has no answer. Suddenly bright flashes of light glow in the distance out the viewports and deep rumbling and sounds of explosions are heard coming from the Tunnel kilometers away. Everyone runs to see what is happening, except for the Soldier who just now realizes what cost has come with his escape.

    Emerging from the Tunnel, the onlookers see an army and fleet of alien creatures and their war machines advancing forward slowly towards the base, firing en masse as they do, the local Terran forces returning a fraction of their firepower in response. Over the intercom are heard orders for an orbital strike being called down from the Terran fleet ships high above, down on the entire Tunnel area, while fighting from both sides lights up the surface of the dark world.

    Fade to Black. A low roar from a nuclear detonation is heard.
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Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:30 am

Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:29 pm

  • Started reading, but stopped cause I don't want to be spoiled if this ever becomes the official single player story line. :P Looking good from what I did read, though.
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Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:41 pm

  • Good work Flying Steel!! The mech looks like Metal Gear lol! Maybe we can do it like Gears of War 2 style? You know, sawing through the heart of the worm.....
    "The World's Will Look Up And Shout, 'Save Us!', And I'll Whisper, 'No.'" -Rorschach- IMA FIRIN MAH LAZER!!!!!111
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Tue Aug 18, 2009 6:02 am

  • Sepelio wrote:Woah. Its gonna take me a while to get to grips with that.


    Yeah, I based the amount of new concepts and twists it contains to be roughly similar to the quantity found in the original Starcraft campaign. I like that feeling of "being on a 'ride".


    When you feel like you've had enough time to digest the story, I'll post the level / gameplay table, which is basically the outline for how to implement the campaign in the game.

    Next comes character creation / detailing and dialogue writing plus preliminary level drafting and art style sketching and any voice acting auditions.

    When that is done we will be at the point where we could really use some support from coders.

    parasti wrote:Started reading, but stopped cause I don't want to be spoiled if this ever becomes the official single player story line. :P Looking good from what I did read, though.


    That is totally okay. If everyone read this, it'd ruin alot of the impact when people play after this is implemented.

    -F0XHOUND- wrote:Good work Flying Steel!! The mech looks like Metal Gear lol! Maybe we can do it like Gears of War 2 style? You know, sawing through the heart of the worm.....


    Thanks. :) Never played either Gears of War game though, so you'd have to explain to me what you mean.
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Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:11 am

  • To be honest, the alien creature may be a nice concept if it gets a chance to build on that, but the model is not looking so hot. The thing doesn't have any anatomy that makes sense and the smooth approach on this one as well give it a ugly look. The mouth itself is incorrect perceived and it's actually the result of how polygon smoothing works, not something that would actually be on a anatomic alien. Cartoons have those kind of mouths in certain times when they talk or certain situations (like fan blowing into mouth), not by standard.
    The eyes (I believe it is) is same story there, it's the result of poly smoothing and not enough forethought on the actual concept.

    I'm sorry to say it, but the entire model is amateurish and looks more like when people new to 3D play around with certain tools and adds stuff (like those, I believe it's supposed to be, weapons).
    I don't mean anything bad by it but that's how it comes across to me.

    *The mech hasn't changed much from last time and I've already commented on that.
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Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:28 pm

  • ai wrote:To be honest, the alien creature may be a nice concept if it gets a chance to build on that, but the model is not looking so hot. The thing doesn't have any anatomy that makes sense and the smooth approach on this one as well give it a ugly look.


    IMO, if you want to make a 3 million poly model and sculpt it, only to use that to bake a normal map to the in-game mesh, that is an option, and the one used by the commercial game industry.

    But if you use subsurf to create the higher res mesh (which corrects artifacts and inherits the uv unwrapping) and apply a GIMPed bumpmap to it for the fine details, I believe that buys you a similar or the same result at a much better price.


    In short, don't worry about it being too smooth, because I haven't touched the UVs yet, which means I can't apply a detail bump map, which I need using this method for it to look anything but smooth in the WIPs. And it won't be smooth in the end- it is based off of Echinoderms, whose names means spiny skin or something.

    The mouth itself is incorrect perceived and it's actually the result of how polygon smoothing works, not something that would actually be on a anatomic alien. Cartoons have those kind of mouths in certain times when they talk or certain situations (like fan blowing into mouth), not by standard.


    This is my plan for the mouth- make it black in diffuse and gloss so you can't see into it, so it looks there's a digestive track going down there.

    As for the "cheeks", those I was planning on working on some more, so yeah I agree.

    Crackers, Gromit!

    The eyes (I believe it is) is same story there, it's the result of poly smoothing and not enough forethought on the actual concept.


    It actually has no eyes. Those are heat pits, like those on snakes. Totally different look and structure from eyes.

    That said, I'm thinking the outer heat pits need to look more like the inner ones, because they might seem too much like poly smoothing I think as well.

    I'm sorry to say it, but the entire model is amateurish and looks more like when people new to 3D play around with certain tools and adds stuff (like those, I believe it's supposed to be, weapons).
    I don't mean anything bad by it but that's how it comes across to me.


    What weapons?

    IMO, we have to separate our technical analysis of graphics from how they look and feel to normal people. People can't see subsurface and sculpt modeling, they only see something that looks real or surreal or craplike, like other games or not. And it either does it for them or it doesn't.

    I don't want to win an industry awards here for technique, I just want these to look good from the aesthetic perspective of most players, when they are complete. I want them to look impressive, don't get me wrong, but I don't want to go so far past the point of diminshing returns and end up with too few meshes to really improve the game where it is lacking.


    I hope this isn't all coming across too defensive or anything, I just feel we each have very different perspectives and ways of accomplishing the things we each want to accomplish, and so I'm trying to explain mine.

    *The mech hasn't changed much from last time and I've already commented on that.


    The 'mech' was there for reference, the UGV next to it on the treads was the new "character class" model being revealed.

    Since most of the feedback on the mech has been positive (regarding the edge hardness it seems to me as well) I'll probably go with the look of one of the two options I posted in that comparison screen I rendered earlier in this thread (one was harder and one was softer).
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Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:52 pm

  • I wasn't talking about techniques with the alien model. Nothing to do with 3 millino polys or subsurface. I meant the entire model looks ugly and too amateurish (regardless of technique you used). That critique I gave was mostly so that you'd understand how to fix it. I've been imagining this model with a super awesome texture, yet I cannot picture it as the model itself isn't good enough.
    It's in the same class as the current player models Nexuiz uses, and everyone thinks they could be much much better.

    Look, I know I cannot force you to change these things but you don't seem to listen to critique that much and in fact do defend even bad models. Sure, there are always people who will like any kind of models, but the more experienced artists will look at it differently. Actually, none beside me, of the more experienced artists here has commented on these.

    I'm giving you an opportunity to evolve, of course, whether you take the advice or not is up to you. You could be a good 3D artist but in order to do that you'd have to listen to critique and not only the ones that you agree with.
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    ai
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Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:48 pm

  • ai wrote:I wasn't talking about techniques with the alien model. Nothing to do with 3 millino polys or subsurface. I meant the entire model looks ugly and too amateurish (regardless of technique you used). That critique I gave was mostly so that you'd understand how to fix it. I've been imagining this model with a super awesome texture, yet I cannot picture it as the model itself isn't good enough.


    I'm thinking about re-allocating its details so I can improve some of these issues, but I can't exceed the 5000 tri limit for the upper LoD, so you can't expect too much detail, otherwise this won't be considered acceptable for the game.

    Look, I know I cannot force you to change these things but you don't seem to listen to critique that much and in fact do defend even bad models.


    I only explain elements of these models to you because they just don't look altogether bad to me, they look like WIPs, but not bad models. If I could see them as bad, I wouldn't defend them.

    Also while I respect what you have contributed to the game for all of us to enjoy, that doesn't mean that I'm going to necessarily make changes you alone have suggested that don't feel right to me and that aren't backed up by the opinions expressed by anyone else in the community, at that time.

    When I start getting more complaints or suggestions similar to yours, that is an indicator to me that there's problems there.

    Sure, there are always people who will like any kind of models, but the more experienced artists will look at it differently.


    So should the more experienced artists' opinions matter to me the most or should I be more concerned with what the community in general feels?

    Actually, none beside me, of the more experienced artists here has commented on these.


    Which tells me nothing, though.

    Maybe the silence means they feel these models are beyond repair, maybe it indicates silent approval, maybe it means they didn't expect to find these in a spoiler shielded campaign discussion thread and haven't seen them or maybe they are on vacation.

    I simply can't tell what someone is thinking unless they tell it to me.

    BTW, isn't it just you and Morphed who have contributed models to the game in any recent time?

    I'm giving you an opportunity to evolve, of course, whether you take the advice or not is up to you.


    To want to take on a personal evolution, I'd need to know where exactly it would be taking me.

    You could be a good 3D artist but in order to do that you'd have to listen to critique and not only the ones that you agree with.


    There's a difference between listening and blindly following is all I'm saying. But as more folks offer critiques, I will be more inclined to follow them, even if I don't agree with them.
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Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:36 am

  • Fixed mouth issue with Hallurchin WIP. Modified heat pits.

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    Flying Steel
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Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:04 am

  • Just out of curiosity, being that these creatures appear to have little or no joined/opposable limbs how do they do anything?

    Also, whats with the tube like things sticking out of its face? What are they for, they dont seem to fit with the rest of the critter. I'm hoping they are tubas :D
    Possibly not the worst mapper in the world.

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    Sepelio
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Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:11 am

  • i have a question, how will level change work. slip gate? hl1 ingame level transfer style? will the player have to load maps like the current campaign does, then spawn without their shit like what happens with a slip gate or will it be like hl1+ where it simply said "loading..." in center screen and player position and iventory never changed as well as npc position?
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Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:03 pm

  • Sepelio wrote:Just out of curiosity, being that these creatures appear to have little or no joined/opposable limbs how do they do anything?


    They move using those spines which can be rotated swiftly at their base (those protusions that they project from are flexible, like the arms of a starfish or serpent star). I was basing their form of locomotion heavily on that of the faster real world Sea Urchins that I understand move on their spines alone or almost so, instead of using a mixture of their spines and tube feet for locomotion. Some examples:

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 0563&hl=en

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHP9km0KHKQ

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTyo5DtVvdw

    This crazy and poorly understood ancient thing was also a noteworthy influence on the Hallurchin design:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucigenia

    Also, whats with the tube like things sticking out of its face?


    Those are tube feet, basically:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Seeig ... licien2005).jpg

    Tube feet are the only means of locomotion for starfish as well as a partial means of locomotion for the slower sea urchines, but for sea urchins and serpent stars especially, they are used as arms and hands to pick things up like food.

    What are they for, they dont seem to fit with the rest of the critter. I'm hoping they are tubas :D


    Yeah, they definitely don't look like they fit atm, but I am hoping that that is because they are still in a "pose posture" (can't recall the correct term, atm) which is a technical aspect of character modeling.

    In game, if they were holding no weapon or other object, those things would retract almost back into the creature, so to speak. And if they were wielding a weapon let's say, those thing would be grabbing onto four different parts of it almost like tentacles with sunction cups at the ends (only).

    Later I will do a quick test rig and pose those tube arms with it holding a weapon so we can see and decide if it looks bad and unfitting or works well enough to keep.


    Either way, this model will need something for grasping and wielding weapons in the game, which is one of the requirements for player models:

    Player Model Requirements wrote:1) Must conform well to a 2 meter high, 1 meter wide and 1 meter long bounding box.
    2) Must have a means of locomotion.
    3) Must have a means of wielding weapons.
    0) If possible, benefits from having a visible weakness at the top for Camping Rifle "Headshots".


    So they are mainly there to fullfill requirement #3 by acting as arms and hands that wield weapons.
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Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:13 pm

  • Mizu Kitsune wrote:i have a question, how will level change work. slip gate? hl1 ingame level transfer style? will the player have to load maps like the current campaign does, then spawn without their shit like what happens with a slip gate or will it be like hl1+ where it simply said "loading..." in center screen and player position and iventory never changed as well as npc position?


    If ai's impression is the case and there are influental elements of the Dev team that are opposed to a more robust campaign system, then it will probably be more like the current campaign system so that they don't have to worry about doing much of any more work maintaining it or whatever, and it can be commited to trunk at some point.

    But if there is no resistance or it changes over time or after we show that we can make it a reality, then it depends more on how far whichever coders are working on it (like Mircea and tZork let's say) want to take it.
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Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:29 pm

  • Well, things kinda is getting off hand, or will if no structure is in place.
    Before doing any more work whatsoever you'd need people to organize this. I don't know how many are actually willing to do a single player campaign. And those who are need assigned roles, meaning modelers, script writers, maintainers etc. What would be needed are people 'in charge' beyond the community. Like if the community doesn't care, doesn't know or doesn't respond to stuff then you'd need a way to decide. By decide I mean a majority vote and not based on only one persons views.

    For now, there are no people in charge and things just go in all directions and there's just chaos. Actually, the only active person I see is Flying Steel.
    Maybe there's just too little interest in this, if so, then it's just as well to stop.
    Basically what would need to be done is assemble a team and integrate that team with the community so they know what goes on. And if anyone is thinking 'but this is a community project, anyone can contribute and so on and so fourth', true, but there needs to be a stable 'main' team otherwise it will only be a big hoop of jumble. As contributors won't necessary come, and if they do it can take a long time before they actually do something. Take Nexuiz for example, many people offered to do stuff and contribute many people just vanished, some actually did start something but in the end either forgot, ignored or stopped altogether.

    That structure won't work so a solid one needs to be established. One main reason why I haven't even considered to contribute is just because of this lack of structure. I don't wanna waste my time with something that might never be finished as I also have other stuff to do and could be doing instead.

    In my eyes, the single player campaign is but a pipedream so far. I would like to contribute but I'm too pessimistic at this time.
    Last edited by ai on Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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    ai
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Thu Aug 20, 2009 7:37 pm

  • ai wrote:Well, things kinda is getting off hand, or will if no structure is in place.
    Before doing and more work whatsoever you'd need people to organize this.


    We have alot of stuff going on in one thread, but otherwise things are on the way to being about as organized as they can or should be, imo. I don't think we're going to end up with or need more than a handful of people working on this. Like 3-6 contributors.

    I don't know how many are actually willing to do a single player campaign. And those who are need assigned roles, meaning modelers, script writers, maintainers etc. What would be needed are people 'in charge' beyond the community. Like if the community doesn't care, doesn't know or doesn't respond to stuff then you'd need a way to decide. By decide I mean a majority vote and not based on only one persons views.


    A weighted system would be more fair, with the people contributing more getting more weight. Consensus is always best though.

    For now, there are no people in charge and things just go in all directions and there's just chaos. Actually, the only active person I see is Flying Steel.


    This is still in its early stages though. We just recently have a complete storyline proposal for folks to read through, I have some implementation details fairly organized as well and was just waiting a little while before posting it.

    Maybe there's just too little interest in this, if so, then it's just as well to stop.


    Be my guest, I am just of the opinion that interest can build up as I make it more "real" with content contributions, even if no one else helped. (But I am sure Sepelio and Vermin will, I also have confidence in tZork and Mircea as we get further down the line and I/we can give them specific tasks in order of necessity).

    Basically what would need to be done is assemble a team and integrate that team with the community so they know what goes on. And if anyone is thinking 'but this is a community project, anyone can contribute and so on and so fourth', true, but there needs to be a stable 'main' team otherwise it will only be a big hoop of jumble. As contributors won't necessary come, and if they do it can take a long time before they actually do something. Take Nexuiz for example, many people offered to do stuff and contribute many people just vanished, some actually did start something but in the end either forgot, ignored or stopped altogether.


    Thus the team assembles itself, as those who make and continue to make contributions or progress towards contributions will ultimately form the team. People who offer to help but vanish will obviously not be, and so it won't be a problem.

    That structure won't work so a solid one needs to be established. One main reason why I haven't even considered to contribute is just because of this lack of structure. I don't wanna waste my time with something that might never be finished as I also have other stuff to do and could be doing instead.

    In my eyes, the single player campaign is but a pipedream so far. I would like to contribute but I'm too pessimistic at this time.


    Then my suggestion to you is just sit, watch and wait until you feel more confidence or have your suspicions confirmed by our progress or lack thereof, respectively. Maybe over the next month, three months or year even or never if we fail.

    Wait until you feel inspired is what I am saying. I myself wouldn't be here working on all this and saying all these things if it wasn't for recent steps being taken forward made by other contributors, like the Camping Rifle, Jetpack, Spiderbots and Class Based Mutator. Without those things expanding the game in new directions and adding so much gameplay and visual power, I wouldn't be inspired enough to further this improvement and expansion trend of Nexuiz by furthering this story-driven-campaign project.
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Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:38 am

  • this is a great idea, and the story seems to be coming along well.

    I would like to offer my assistance in any way i can. just let me know what you need done and i will do it ;)
    Why has a developer ever needed any reason other than "it looks bloody awesome?"

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Sat Aug 22, 2009 2:35 am

  • A few problems pop up off the top of my head with the current story...

    One of them is something I wonder every time I see any kind of sci-fi movie:


    How did the alien species learn to speak any earth language at all, (let alone the fact that they happen to speak the exact one as the team sent through the Tunnel)?

    It doesn't make any sense... There were a few other things, but apparently they were so minor that I forgot them. I'll let you know if I remember....

    By the way, the starting gun on this game is awesome, and I'd love to see a similar weapon in Nexuiz as the default gun. It's probably my favorite starting weapon of all time....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP6q-0kcEs0
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    MC SE7EN
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Sat Aug 22, 2009 2:58 am

  • here's a tank concept i made. what do you think?

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    Why has a developer ever needed any reason other than "it looks bloody awesome?"

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Sat Aug 22, 2009 2:59 am

  • Yoda almighty wrote:here's a tank concept i made. what do you think?

    Image


    very nice...very nice indeed... :shock:
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Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:08 am

  • thanks. i will keep working on it, adding more detail, etc.
    Why has a developer ever needed any reason other than "it looks bloody awesome?"

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    Yoda almighty
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Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:01 am

  • MC SE7EN wrote:A few problems pop up off the top of my head with the current story...
    One of them is something I wonder every time I see any kind of sci-fi movie:
    How did the alien species learn to speak any earth language at all, (let alone the fact that they happen to speak the exact one as the team sent through the Tunnel)?


    The Exosilex have millenia of history researching and dealing with alien species, and they also have access to medium level Primordial computer systems. These things give them the equipment to be experts in xenolinguistics and rapidly build a basic translation of an alien species' language.

    Furthermore, it is possible they captured and studied members of the first group, Night Cross, a while before the events of the campaign.

    This is something relatively unique to the Exosilex- the other species have a difficult time communicating with Terrans, otherwise things might have gone differently.

    Yoda Almighty wrote:this is a great idea, and the story seems to be coming along well.

    I would like to offer my assistance in any way i can. just let me know what you need done and i will do it


    How are you at texturing atm, bump mapping especially?

    Nice tank, BTW. Is it tracked or hovering?
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Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:43 pm

  • the tank is a hover tank. ;)

    and at the moment, i know how to do bump mapping and spec mapping. however, I have never been able to get it to work with blender's game engine. I am not very good at making textures though, and usualy download them from free texture sites.
    Why has a developer ever needed any reason other than "it looks bloody awesome?"

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Sun Aug 23, 2009 3:39 am

  • Yoda almighty wrote:and spec mapping.


    In the Nexuiz world I think they call this gloss mapping, jsyk.

    however, I have never been able to get it to work with blender's game engine.


    That's too bad, can't get GLSL to work with my old GPU either.

    I am not very good at making textures though, and usualy download them from free texture sites.


    The alientrap devs are very strict about only including GPL or compatibly licensed content in Nexuiz, so you have to be careful when using material created by others that it is under such a license or else it can't be distributed with the game.
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