Feature #593 wrote:I finally decided to try something that's been on my mind for a while, and bring my idea in the open. I've been thinking about turning the shotgun into a pistol-like weapon with the same purpose, which imo would be nicer in many aspects than the classic long shotgun.

The main reason I'd like such a change is that in most shooters, the weapon provided at spawn time is usually a small side-arm, which imo gives a better feel. Second, many games have weapons like the shotgun, but not a shotgun-pistol weapon... so Nexuiz would win on an original idea as well. It would also seem more logical for the weakest weapon to be generally smaller, Nexuiz has a lot of big guns over small guns either way.

What I did was lightly modifying the current shotgun model and turning it into a pistol with 3 pipes. This also includes modifying the shooting sound into a more pistol-like blast. My idea doesn't include changing firing types or anything else in the gameplay, just the design of the shotgun. This is included under features so people can vote if they like it or are against this change and prefer the shotgun as it is.

In case the idea is accepted, this is the remaining todo list:

- I only modified v_shotgun.md3 and g_shotgun.md3. Although the others don't seem to be used, weapon models are also included in .dpm and .zym formats. I don't have the Blender import / export script for these so I couldn't change h_shotgun.dpm and w_shotgun.zym as well.

- The pictures of the shotgun need to be changed. eg. HUD weapon bar and weapon stats screen.

- Optionally, the weapon could be renamed to something more fitting than shotgun. I thought about calling it shotpistol... you can post your ideas for a new name here

tZork wrote:I think this is a great idea. turn the shotty into something explicitly short range ouch. leaves room for a "real" shotgun pickup

Samual wrote:I voted no because it looks bad this way. For one, way too small -- It's smaller than the laser in fact. Second, it's pointless... And the idea of adding another shotgun weapon will cause confusion, and sucks because we already have 15 weapons -- Adding another is a no-no unless we remove one imo. Third, it breaks configurations that want a powerful shotgun (As the model does not match the balance in that case) -- Mine is affected by this.

All in all, i'm against it unless there is a cvar (server side cvar) to control it.

tZork wrote:I think this is a great idea. turn the shotty into something explicitly short range ouch. leaves room for a "real" shotgun pickup

MirceaKitsune wrote:

Samual wrote: ...

1: The size problem can be solved. I will scale the models back up tomorrow, if everyone agrees they are too small this way (I posted an updated .pk3 where I scaled the pickup model a little more). I made them smaller to simulate the size of a pistol, but will undo that.

2: Also it's not another shotgun, I'm only modifying the looks of the current one. I don't intend any gameplay changes such as changing its power, etc. This only changes the current shotguns model, firing sound and possibly name.

3: As for model not matching balance, imo a pistol better reflects the shotgun's performance. It's a very weak weapon, which is better represented by a pistol than a big gun. And Sepelio, I'll keep that in mind I'm not working on anything else until there's a decision about this change and if it's wanted or not in some form.

FraNcoTirAdoR wrote:I'm also for the idea of not-touching shotgun, but making it a pickable weapon instead,

FraNcoTirAdoR wrote:I'm also for the idea of not-touching shotgun, but making it a pickable weapon instead, this current model looks really strange, also if this tiny-weapon would give out the usual deep-shotgun sound that would be strange^2... If you are into scaling, maybe you should also scale down mortar, it covers really lot from the screen
Why dont people start with a LG-like (but of course far much weaker) range limited, ammo recharging, hitscan weapon? Now THAT would be unique...

Samual wrote:I voted no because it looks bad this way. For one, way too small -- It's smaller than the laser in fact. Second, it's pointless... And the idea of adding another shotgun weapon will cause confusion, and sucks because we already have 15 weapons -- Adding another is a no-no unless we remove one imo. Third, it breaks configurations that want a powerful shotgun (As the model does not match the balance in that case) -- Mine is affected by this.

All in all, i'm against it unless there is a cvar (server side cvar) to control it.

Remove crylink and replace with powerful shotgun, slow re-fire, good for close-range worse as further distance use.

Agama wrote:I like kojn's idea of replacing crylink with a pickup shotgun.

Like I hear people here say make shotgun pickupable..Ok that would be cool but make it stronger with less re-fire, single and double-shot? Like Primary = one shot, secondary = 2 shots (as in uses both barrels), longer re-load time for secondary fire, quicker for primary fire.

Samual wrote:Removing the crylink is not happening, it's one of my favorite weapons in my balance. It's also the ONLY weapon that hasn't changed (Except for a new texture and new balance) since 1.0. (Literally, it's one of the longest lasting weapons).................................. We need a new model for it though. Anyway, FruitieX and I don't like this idea as it breaks both Nexrun and my mod. (Shotgun pistol looks too odd with us having powerful shotguns)

Like I hear people here say make shotgun pickupable..Ok that would be cool but make it stronger with less re-fire, single and double-shot? Like Primary = one shot, secondary = 2 shots (as in uses both barrels), longer re-load time for secondary fire, quicker for primary fire.

1: Model has three barrels, not two... And three shots at once would be just one large shot, and that's lame. 2: Weapon spawns for shotguns don't exist, as people already HAVE IT when they spawn. Few maps have it, sure, but that's few maps... Basically, shotgun would never be used ever in that case. --- Besides, the idea of a shotgun pickup is even more ridiculous than spawning with one. (Except when you do large balance changes to fit it.)

C.Brutail wrote:

Remove crylink and replace with powerful shotgun, slow re-fire, good for close-range worse as further distance use.

QUAKE 2 SSG FTW!

+1 on the idea, finally shells pickaup would make sence.

Samual wrote:Removing the crylink is not happening, it's one of my favorite weapons in my balance. It's also the ONLY weapon that hasn't changed (Except for a new texture and new balance) since 1.0. (Literally, it's one of the longest lasting weapons).................................. We need a new model for it though. Anyway, FruitieX and I don't like this idea as it breaks both Nexrun and my mod. (Shotgun pistol looks too odd with us having powerful shotguns)

Like I hear people here say make shotgun pickupable..Ok that would be cool but make it stronger with less re-fire, single and double-shot? Like Primary = one shot, secondary = 2 shots (as in uses both barrels), longer re-load time for secondary fire, quicker for primary fire.

1: Model has three barrels, not two... And three shots at once would be just one large shot, and that's lame. 2: Weapon spawns for shotguns don't exist, as people already HAVE IT when they spawn. Few maps have it, sure, but that's few maps... Basically, shotgun would never be used ever in that case. --- Besides, the idea of a shotgun pickup is even more ridiculous than spawning with one. (Except when you do large balance changes to fit it.)

Flying Steel wrote:You don't need to replace the Crylink- its a unique and interest weapon closer to UT's flak cannon than a shotgun, with its bouncing non-hitscan projectiles. It also competes more with the machinegun whose effective range it overlaps with alot more heavily than the shotgun.

Otherwise this is an excellent idea, the shotgun should be a standalone.

k0jak wrote:Well if the crylink acted more like the flak-cannon would be better imo, wider spread, but bigger/huge damage if you hit someone close range and then make it fire slower..secondary fire is next to pointless always has been,

Flying Steel wrote:

k0jak wrote:Well if the crylink acted more like the flak-cannon would be better imo, wider spread, but bigger/huge damage if you hit someone close range and then make it fire slower..secondary fire is next to pointless always has been,

That isn't a bad idea, something like a flak cannon secondary for crylink would be good too (but with a flat trajectory though).

But the crylink shouldn't be removed outright because it has become such a balanced and useful weapon finally (in 2.5 series). It is the only truly useful scatter-gun, by far the most useful bouncing weapon and it stands up well in close to medium range fights in general, as well as having some limited sniping ability since the center projectile has no spread or falloff but very fast speed.

Anyway, I don't think this topic is very closely related to making the shotgun a pickup with balanced firepower- a real shotgun basically. That should definitely happen, for many very good reasons.

k0jak wrote:Well imo would prefer it like the UTs flak-cannon it's almost as if that was how it was meant to be, but sucked a bit

K0jak wrote:In 2.5 it was not very good for me anyway..same problem as shotgun it appeared to be because of the bad anti-lag back then which really used to infuriate me, seemed like I hit a lot but hardly any damage even though I was hitting people dead on. I have to admit i've not used it hardly in 2.5.2 but I presume it works well now with the new anti-lag?