Many ppl are interested in a CTF ladder for Nexuiz. This is the thread to discuss such a ladder in BEFORE its created. How would you like such a ladder to work, what features should it have and what ones should it not have.

that would be awesome if we can get people behind it. but it need to be thought through, somehow motivate people to play so that it doesn't end up like TDM ladder where no match ever really get played. any suggestions as to how to do that? i really hope we can get the ladders to pickup speed...


Anyway i'd play for sure!

I think its a good idea!

team size:
i think 4on4

frag (point) limit:
no

time limit:
20 min.

elo system:
like the one its used by the 1on1 and 2on2 ladder

that would be awesome if we can get people behind it. but it need to be thought through, somehow motivate people to play so that it doesn't end up like TDM ladder where no match ever really get played. any suggestions as to how to do that? i really hope we can get the ladders to pickup speed..

i think there are a lot of player who want to play in a CTF ladder but the Problem is that many of them dont know that a ladder exist. i think we have to publictiy for more player on the ladder (and so for the 1on1 and 2on2)

we can use the script from the 2on2 ladder.

I think there is only one problem the MAPPOOL

nexuiz got only 3 maps and to auf them are only good for small teams (2on2)

Runningman CTF:
is the best map. Its good for small teams and big teams

Basement CTF:
get to full with a bigger size of a team then 3

Dismal CTF:
BAD JOKE!!!!!!

I'm of course willing to create such a ladder on the Nexuiz ladders page. as you know, I can set up any mappool there (when I set it up I just enter "words" anyway, so custom maps would make sense too), as well as Rules (just plain text as well) and the required server config.

But, of course, you guys have to go ahead and propose reasonable settings/rules/mappool for it.

What cannot be changed is the number of maps (I can set it to be either 1 map or two maps, not more) and the way scores are calculated (ELO system, all ladders use the same ELO system). Apart from that a CTF ladder would work like the 2on2 tdm ladder, teams can be created, two leaders per team, the leaders can challenge oether teams, the minimum and maximum number of members can be setup with every needed value as well.

my Proposals for the CTF ladder (my 2 cents):

Size (aka minimum player count per team): hard to say. The larger we define this number the mroe problems we get
a) more people on a map rules out a number of CTF maps, as they are too small for >6 players total
b) less teams would be created and the probability that many matches happen is quite low, as the community is not so active

so a 4on4 ladder will not make it, maybe 3on3 or 2on2 ("imo", as always)

Maps: sure, it depends on the number of players, I assume a 2on2/3on3 situation. Well suitable maps for playing CTF:
- RunningmanCTF
- NexFace ("Facing Worlds" for Nexuiz)
- ControlFactor v2r3 (is there a newer version ? I dunno)
- Greatwall Reloaded

Winning Condition:
Well, Nexuiz still lacks a proper CTF scoring system, but I think that it could still be played just with usual frags and a timelimit of 20 minutes or so. However, be aware that the ELO script would calculate the ELO points using the "frags" of a team, which are not directly representative for the capture score, however it would give reasonable results I think.

Weapons/Items: I think one should stick to the default weapons and settings, as it applies for 1on1 or 2on2 ladder as well. This includes allowing the Strength-PowerUp (as it is allowed for 2on2 ladder as well, and it usually is in almost all other games too, like wrasow, Quake 3/4, UT, ....

I would opt to NOT allow the grappling hook for ladder matches

I think we should play at least 3on3 because 2on2 is (in may way) no really CTF then its more like tdm and such a ladder we already have

idea for a mappool:
Runningman CTF
Bloodprison CTF
Greatwall Reload
Facing worlds
Controlfactor (v2r3 thats the newist version i think )
Capturecity
Dusty
Crossover CTF

in no way i want this maps:

Dismal:
that map really need no one.

eggandbacon:
Thats to open you can see every step from the others.

Space base:
That map is to dark, so you often cant see the ground

Ivy:
nice ambiente but all spawn points are to close together so its to simple to controll the map


the grabling hook make on maps like Facing worlds sense but on maps like runningman it would make no sense.

cortez wrote:Space base:
That map is to dark, so you often cant see the ground.

That map should never be played anywhere - this is coming from the guy who made it

Shoe wrote:
That map should never be played anywhere - this is coming from the guy who made it



who made it?

####UPDATE####

Shoe worte:
That map should never be played anywhere - this is coming from the guy who made it

i should read more

Hi,

first of all, i agree with the most points of green and cortez.

My opinion to a CTF ladder:

1. Players: A difficult question. I think, 3 players per team is a ideal size. The Nexuiz community is too small for a 4on4 but a 2on2 is imho not a real CFT.

2. Maps:

+ Running Man CTF
+ Basement CTF
+ Facing Worlds
+ Greatwall Reloaded
+ Dusty
+ Crossover
+ Bloodprison CTF

- Capturecity (too big)
- Controlfactor (too big)

3. Grappling Hook: Should be disabled. I know, on maps like Facing Worlds its funny to use the Grappling Hook but its to easy to hide with the flag.

Okay, I think we should get this discussion a bit further, in a way that I resume what we have until now (and what we will stay for) and resume the points that are still open.

Anyway I would recommend to do some organised play-testing before hand, this is especially needed for the maps, in order to find out whether the maps are suitable, both in size and in other aspects, too. I would propose to have some test matches between established teams, such as PGP, CONQUERORS or Random.

What the discussion showed, is that these things are fixed:
Team size: 3on3, 4on4 is too big (or better: the community is too small for this), and 2on2 is too small, I fully agree to 3vs3
Frag/Time limit: no frag limit, just a 20 time limit, overtime deactivated (a map or the whole match may result in a draw)
Point system: ELO, as in the other ladders
Grappling Hook: disabled
Game modifications No gamemodifications allowed (such as low gravity, increased player speed, etc.)
Maps: RunningmanCTF, FacingWorlds

There's no need to further discuss about things that are already fixed, unless you insist to do so

Now to the things that are not fixed:
Maps: I didn't even play some of the maps I mention now, however, since they aren't SOO well known, I'd suggest to try out each map I mention now whether they are suitable for 3on3 in some test matches, as there are 6 players involved in testing I think that we can come to a conclusion for each map:
- GreatWall Reloaded
- ControlFactor v2r3
- BloodprisonCTF
- CaptureCity
- Crossover CTF
- Dusty
- BasementCTF
- Hydronex CTF

Beside this I would suggest to ask the admins of the popular CTF servers to mention the Ladder page URL and the existance of a CTF ladder in their MOTD.

I'd realy like to take part in a CTF ladder, only matter is time to me
The grapple thing is special imho, becouse there are maps, that are realy grapple friendly, and maps, that have infamous bad gmaeplay with grapple on (Facing worlds eg.)

Grappling hook could make some maps a bit too easy as there are some where a person who knows a certain trick will just be able to do it again and again, 5 second flag captures each time. I think we could do without that as it would make it too orientated on doing a single stunt in each map.

ed wrote: Grappling hook could make some maps a bit too easy as there are some where a person who knows a certain trick will just be able to do it again and again, 5 second flag captures each time. I think we could do without that as it would make it too orientated on doing a single stunt in each map.

Like me

For those who got one not i make a list where those maps can downloaded:

- GreatWall Reloaded
http://141.2.16.3:7780/nex/maps/inoffic ... loaded.pk3
- ControlFactor v2r3
http://zdev.dvrdns.org/dl/controlfactor_v2r3.pk3
- BloodprisonCTF
http://www.rofltech.co.uk/media/bloodprisonctf-1.0.pk3
- CaptureCity
http://141.2.16.3:7780/nex/maps/inoffic ... y-nex2.pk3
- Crossover CTF
http://www.rofltech.co.uk/media/crossover-1.0.pk3
- Dusty
http://files.filefront.com//;6477436;;/
- FacingWorlds
http://141.2.16.3:7780/nex/maps/inoffic ... ds_nex.pk3

GreEn´mArine wrote:
I would propose to have some test matches between established teams, such as PGP, CONQUERORS or Random.

Everytime . Maybe on your CTF Server?

Your link to CaptureCity is wrong, it is actually
http://141.2.16.3:7780/nex/maps/inoffic ... ity-v1.pk3

And I added HydroNex CTF to the list, can be downloaded here:
http://savagex.planetnexuiz.de/hydronexb2.pk3

Beside this you can get Dusty from here much faster:
http://141.2.16.3:7780/nex/maps/inofficial/dusty.pk3

I just tested all the maps I didn't know yet:
- Controlfactor v2r3 (I just knew v2): still a good map, some new shortcuts and ways, definetely worth a try
- BloodprisonCTF: worth a try, I have black items though, it is annoying
- CaptureCity: FORGET IT, I get 25 FPS there, isntead of my beloved 130 FPS, and I'm sure others will have even worse FPS .. and this is without any players on screen. This rules the map out. It is ugly anyway
- CrossoverCTF: I wouldn't spend time on testing the map: as you cam see immediately it is much too smal, you can capture the flag in about 6 seconds, it just lacks the size, waypoints and weapons for a 3on3
- Dusty: funny CS-clone, worth a try, but may not suit Nexuiz' style
- Hydronex CTF: wow, I really like it. It has a nice buildiig style, good FPS and has interesting ways to get to the flag. and items are enough there for 3on3 imo. Definetely worth a try.

So the maps left to test are:
HydronexCTF, BloodprisonCTF, ControlFactor, Dusty, Greatwall Reloaded, BasementCTF (6 Maps).

I will setup a CTF server which is, however, only started on purpose (when enough players meet in IRC to play the test match) which has all these maps and that also features the autodownload of them.

hmmm i like the idea, but have it 5 on 5, 4 is a bit smallish.

Okay, we had a nice play-session and we were able to test these maps:

- Dusty: The map has buggy spawnpoints (the enemies can spawn very close to your base) and the location info was missing entirely
- Greatwall Reloaded: A interesting map, it can have slight FPS problems but they aren't too bad at a low-details config. Gameplay can be very dynamic, as the map is wide and the attacker-path cannot be covered by 1/2 guys defending too easily, it gets into the pool
- HydronexCTF: won't make it into the mappool, because there is only one main-way to get to the flag, and it is absolutely impossible to get into the enemy base, because when attacking most of the attackers die before even ending at the base, and when they are there they run into the fresh spawned enemies, and if they even get through them (with 20 HP) and into the base, they will never have the opportunity to get out ,as there aren't multiple levels as in FacingWorlds
- BloodprisonCTF: well, it is a map whwere you can get stuck very often, as in bloodprison, the original DM map. However, the map seems to be interesting and will get into the pool

I recorded the whole session. You can either download the complete, big demo file (17 MB) with all maps, including the voting whether the last played map was suitable or not, or decide to take the smaller pack (14 MB) which contains the separated demos, with each map = one demo. Be aware that you need to have these map files downloaded and put into Nexuiz/data !

What about cb_ctf1? Space ctf? The map is very fast paced imho, worths a try on 3on3 (at least the original q3 map weas very nice to play).

Hey we need stuff to do tomorrow I think those maps will also be tested.
I agree that 4on4 or 5on5 would be cooler for ctf but indeed it would be hard to find enough people for a ladder then. 3on3 will allow for interesting matches and if the ladder is successful it can still be changed into 4on4 or more..

Runningmanctf should be tested but it might be too big and is also missing location info. Well thats fixable and maybe the community can work together to create locationinfo for maps missing them.

hal_palandrom from the mappack should also be considered. I think its size is ok for 3on3 and its a nice map. Mikectf2 would be perfect for more players but for the 3on3 goal we have right now its too big.

Next maps to test are (in prioritised order):
- BasementCTF
- RunningmanCTF (Although I think it will be okay)
- Controlfactor
- cb_ctf1 ("Space CTF")

Maps that will be in the cycle so far (because tested):
- BloodprisonCTF
- Greatwall Reloaded
- FacingWorlds

Sounds like a great idea to me! Bring on the ladder!

it was really good game or test sesion. I think we are one step closer to a CTF Ladder


C.Brutail wrote:
What about cb_ctf1? Space ctf? The map is very fast paced imho, worths a try on 3on3 (at least the original q3 map weas very nice to play).

we test the map. I not work!!! Camping is simple and so you can dominate the map

Allright, we tested all the maps that were left, even FacingWorlds

The results:
- BasementCTF: it is too small and too chaotic, it won't get into the pool.
- RunningmanCTF: it was still well playable, even with only 6 players on the map. Sure, more players would be better, but it is ok for 3on3 as well. It will get into the pool
- cbctf1 (Space CTF): no, forget about that map. The size fits for 3on3, however the nexgun is way too strong there for such an open area, and the FPS are horrible as well. Not getting into the pool
- Controlfactor: well, this was a tied vote, two for yes two for no, and no one was really eager to say a clear yes/no. The map itself isn't bad, however it doesn't have very good performance on the upper area and it is really big, and there are many corners where people can hide, it might just become a run'n'hide match. We have to reconsider what to do with this map, either creating a poll on AT forums, or testing it once again (at best with different teams to get different opinions). The decision to take it or not is postponed.
- Facing Worlds: proved to be suitable, but actually everyone knew this already. Will get into the pool.

Once again the people who are interested in it can get the complete pack here (13 MB) or the smaller pack (12 MB) with each map as a demo. Once again, the required maps for playing back the demo need to be downloaded of course!

So to sum things up, we have this mappool for now:

• Runningman CTF
• Facing Worlds
• Bloodprison CTF
• Greatwall Reloaded
• MAYBE ControlFactor

damn - i feel flashed after 2 hours of watching GreEn jumping and fragging around (ctf-demo)

"THE GREAT WALL": - yes

very nice and open map. You are also on a 3on3 ctf able to catch the flag (as you have seen on demo). Much space for movement, a funtastic possibility to learn about tactics in ctf.
For advanced players only I suppose, but very cool if you have at least a bit of coordination in your team


"HYDRONEXB2": - yes

hmm... very difficult to capture the flag if your enemy knows how to use the nex and Rocket Launcher. Only possible if all three of a team go for the flag ...
else it becomes a very defensive map with just "frag-points & flag-return-points".
What i don't have seen was laserjumping (GreEn's perspective) ... don't know why, but it could have made it a bit more interesting.
Conclusion: Should be added to the mappool ... if one of the teams wants to play - let them, but it will be not much fun in this.


"DUSTY": - no

a very cool map, which has the same difficulty or both sides even if the map isn't symmetric. But what i have seen in the demo was horrible ...
to spawn nearly in the others base is just annoying. With other spawnpoints it could make really fun, but so ... *bah* - no no no


"BLOODPRISON": - yes

just cool. perfect for a 3on3 CTF. Made more fun to watch this game then playing i suppose. Really COOL


- just my 5 cents of nonsense to this ... -

cortez wrote:we can use the script from the 2on2 ladder.

I think there is only one problem the MAPPOOL

nexuiz got only 3 maps and to auf them are only good for small teams (2on2)

Runningman CTF:
is the best map. Its good for small teams and big teams

Basement CTF:
get to full with a bigger size of a team then 3

Dismal CTF:
BAD JOKE!!!!!!

There's a shed load of good CTF maps...

i cant think of the names straight off but i'll note them down here when i look for them tomorrow.

Hydronex is a really good map, 3on3 should be fine for it in my oppinion..

the need to learn how to laser run and collecting powerups before attacking needs to be learned, but then again you should attack with the powerups in ctf anyway so....

and by powerups i mean, megahealths and armours + strength when it comes around just incase anyone wasnt sure what i meant by it.


ok it only has one entrance, but it could be tweaked slightly to allow for one maybe two side entrances it might be 'better' you could say, but i guess thats up for everyone else to say.