[First of all, a disclaimer: I'm nobody. I don't play Nexuiz regularly, I can't claim to be a member of this community, I'm not a developer, nor a contributor of any kind. I have no affiliations to anybody related to Nexuiz.

I'm just a guy with some understanding of the issues regarding the Nexuiz relicense and a hobby-level interest in FOSS and software licenses. I'm also part of a fellow game community (Tremulous) so I can empathize with you guys.

I'd like to share my knowledge. I'm hoping it will clear the air. I'm putting some time and thought into this so please read it through at least once. (If you don't have the time, I've marked key ideas so you can skim through.) Thank you.]

1 IS WHAT HAPPENED LEGAL?

What makes up Nexuiz, the game:
* The engine (Dark Places).
* The game data (artwork, maps, models, textures, sounds etc.)
* The name.

1.1 IS TRANSFERING OWNERSHIP OF THE ENGINE AND DATA LEGAL?

Yes.

The engine and the game data fall under copyright law. Since Illfonic claims to have signed contracts with certain legal entities regarding the engine and game data, it automatically means (in order for the contracts to make sense) that the legal entities they signed with were the sole copyright holders for their respective stuff (source code, artwork etc.)

It has been mentioned above that SVN access to the Dark Places engine source code was conditioned by assigning all copyright to Forest Hale or Alien Trap (the company). That would make Forest Hale/Alien Trap and ID Software (the original developer) the sole copyright holders. Also, it has been mentioned in this thread that Illfonic got in touch and secured rights from the relevant copyright holders for the game data (maybe all of it, maybe just the parts that interested them).

If all that is true, it means that Illfonic now has a legal right to the engine and the game data. Of course, that may mean lots of things. The terms of the contracts are unknown; there may be more (or less) involved than full copyright transfer. There may be just licensees, with certain rights.

Nevermind. What it means is that Illfonic got a copy of the engine and data with which they can do as they please.

Note: If something slipped by and there are pieces of code or artwork for which Illfonic doesn't have the rights, the copyright holders for those pieces may raise some legal claim. That is pure speculation without any proof. Occam's Razor suggests that Illfonic will have taken all precautions. Then again, there's human error, laziness and stupidity. If any of you wishes to investigate further, do so.

1.2 IS TAKING OVER THE "NEXUIZ" NAME LEGAL?

Yes.

Names/brands fall under trademark law, not copyright. To have the rights to a trademark, you have to register it, and you have to actively protect it, in order to be able to claim rights to it and not lose those rights by being idle about it.

AFAIK, Alien Trap owns a trademark for "Nexuiz". Presumably, they have transferred it to Illfonic (or otherwise permitted them to use it, possibly exclusively). That means that Illfonic has a legal right to the name "Nexuiz". You, the community, have none. You have a moral right, sure, but I'm afraid that doesn't count, legally.

2 WHAT HAPPENS NOW?

2.1 WHAT HAPPENS TO THE NAME "NEXUIZ"?

The trademark owner gets to decide who can and who cannot use the name. I have no idea what Illfonic intends to do, but please understand that as the trademark owner they could very well require everybody else to simply stop using "Nexuiz" dead cold. Even more, as a commercial company they will be forced, to at least some extent, to aggressively protect this brand they now own, from their competition.

If that happens, the community won't be able to use it anymore. They will have to find another name. And Illfonic will be able, legally, to make sure it's not too similar a name. Sorry. You have no choice in the matter. So you might as well stop proposing that Illfonic give up the name or let you use it. It. Won't. Happen.

Of course, I don't know what will happen. Since Kedhrin talks about a "GPL Nexuiz" it might hint that the community may be permitted to keep on using the name, at least for a while. Again, it might not.

Worst case scenario: the game you know and love as "Nexuiz" will have to be called something completely different in the future. Live with it.

2.2 WHAT HAPPENS TO THE ENGINE AND GAME DATA?

Nothing. Yes, that's right.

Why nothing? You have to understand how licensing works.

A person (or other legal entity, such as a company) creates something (code, artwork, etc.) In most countries, the creator automatically becomes the copyright holder. You can also aquire the copyright from the holder (presumably that's what Illfonic did).

The creator has full rights to the stuff they created, and other people have none. So, in order for other people to be able to do anything with that stuff, the creator gives them a license which allows them to do certain things.

The creator can give how many licenses he wants, and they can be different licenses for different people.

In this case, Alien Trap and ID Software already gave the world at large the Dark Places engine under the GPL license. Then they also issued another license (or transferred copyright ownership altogether, which would mean they stop being the holders) to Illfonic.

But the interesting thing is that copies of the stuff that was already distributed under GPL cannot be "recalled". You cannot go back and say that you want all those copies destroyed, returned, require people to stop using them or developing them etc. Same goes for the game data.

Basically, there's absolutely nothing anybody can do to stop the community from picking up from the last official release of Dark Engines and the release of the game data and keep on going.

Look at it like this. Nexuiz, as you all know and love it, is now twins. One brother goes to live with uncle Illfonic and one stays at home. They both start from the same place. They are identical. But they will evolve in different ways in the future. How -- that depends on you, the community, vs Illfonic. Each party will take their twin in a different direction.

You haven't lost anything. Illfonic cannot take anything from you. If their game becomes a success and yours dissapears it will be mainly because of what you do, not about what they do. Here's hoping they both will do great.

2.3 WHAT HAPPENS TO THE WEB SITES AND DOMAINS?

Unfortunately, the trademark owner controls all kinds of uses of the brand. This includes domain names. This means that, worst case scenario, all domains that contain "Nexuiz" and are deemed undesirable by Illfonic can be asked to give it up or get sued otherwise.

Nexuiz.com is currently owned by Lee. I assume it will be formally passed over to Illfonic representatives. They own the website now and Kedhrin has already mentioned some of the plans they have for it. Be content with the small type mention of "GPL Nexuiz". IMHO, it will be gone at some point.

alientrap.org is also owned by Lee, and the website too. This means the forum, the website etc. You, the community, have to ask yourselves what ties remain between you and Alien Trap. Because, should the worst come to pass, you may discover that you are now strangers on a stranger's website. This means that an important part of what makes the community (the website) may cease to exist.

I'm not saying it will happen (soon, or ever). But it can and it might. You have to face reality.

3 WHAT SHOULD THE COMMUNITY DO

Please note that these are just mere suggestions.

* Keep the goodwill going between the community and Illfonic/Alien Trap. If for nothing else but for the fact that you can do a lot of harm to them and them to you. But it doesn't need to be like that. They don't have to wipe you out, and you don't have to call them names and say they "stole" things.

* Identify your de-facto leaders. Then see which of them will take responsability in these trying times and are willing to actually lead you.

* Start thinking of a new name. Pick one ASAP.

* Get organized. You will need a domain name, a website, and a forum first of all. Get cracking on moving the forum contents from Alien Trap to your own site and your own install of phpBB (if Alien Trap will be willing to assist you). Start migrating contents (downloads, screenshot galleries etc.) to the new site. Then you will need all kinds of developer tools (code repository, bug tracker etc.) Here's a suggestion: you can start at SourceForge, which offers all of these things (and more) for free.

* Learn from what happened here. If you don't want this to happen again, make sure in the future that no single person or group of persons has full control. I don't know if the Nexuiz community is big enough, strong enough and dedicated enough to put together a legal entity to represent their interests in the future. I'm talking about an organization, an association, a foundation etc. with a publicly elected board of directors. There are other FOSS projects that do this. It certainly would simplify legal matters and make sure the community is represented from now on properly. Or, you can put your trust in a handful of people and hope for the best. There's even more FOSS projects that do that.

Thanks for reading.

Kedhrin wrote:We have many things planned for the community existing, including giving away some of our hard work on the source code - for free, crediting the original community in the credits (as supplied by the community) as well as Beta Invites and potentially free copies of the game. These are things I can talk about and want to talk about. As well as much much more, including features, how we work, what our work flow is etc.

firstly, i would like to thank you, that you start a real conversation with us and do talk about the for US relevant questions like the future of or beloved pc version.
secondly, for my side i appreciate your offers something like beta keys, but just to let you know im one of many who dont own a console, so it seems to be useless for the ones without a console. A small texture pack or some improved player animations (eventhough its just one animation for all models) seem to be a more usefull offer, from which the whole community will gain profit

@Kedhrin
I disagree with the decision on the name, but I will keep my grievances out of this thread .
I did check out some of the concept artwork on your myspace and it looks really nice. Perhaps you could post some of it on the forums.
I am also curious to what weapons you are using in the console version and if you modified them at all .

cortez wrote:

Kedhrin wrote:We have many things planned for the community existing, including giving away some of our hard work on the source code - for free, crediting the original community in the credits (as supplied by the community) as well as Beta Invites and potentially free copies of the game. These are things I can talk about and want to talk about. As well as much much more, including features, how we work, what our work flow is etc.

firstly, i would like to thank you, that you start a real conversation with us and do talk about the for US relevant questions like the future of or beloved pc version.
secondly, for my side i appreciate your offers something like beta keys, but just to let you know im one of many who dont own a console, so it seems to be useless for the ones without a console. A small texture pack or some improved player animations (eventhough its just one animation for all models) seem to be a more usefull offer, from which the whole community will gain profit

The texture pack may not be relevant as most textures that could be used for BSP are rather simple. Almost all of our textures are made for custom unwraps, some are tiling but I don't see how you could use them without a massive global revamp of all your assets (like what we're doing). The player models may be possible - keep in mind when we acted these animations out we kept in mind the armor on our character concepts. So they may not be too good. However, we do have a shit ton of extra mocap animations that do require animations. We can also potentially offer tutorials on how to use the new animation system (which allow for upper and lower body blends as well as other improvements). This is further down the road, however.

I was about to make a lengthy reply to Kedhrin's reopening post here, but while reading it, it looks hes saying "say things i want to hear or i wont listen" and thus making it a fruitless conversation. (hes a professional btw. scnr). its nice to hear your finally considering some flowback, tough be it strange you tool until now to mention it.

Heres a some advice for you, if your honest about wanting a dialog. things like:

Kedhrin wrote:I am already talking about WAY more than any other publisher would ever talk to you guys about. Most people in the industry would call me insane for even getting on your IRC room and opening myself up like I am to an open source community.

Will not further that goal. In fact im fairly sure it will piss some ppl off. Or can you explain why we should accept that you behave rudely just because the ppl in your biz usually do? And the parallel to other publishers is somewhat irrelevant since this is far from a normal situation.

Silica Gel: Do Not Eat wrote:@Kedhrin
I disagree with the decision on the name, but I will keep my grievances out of this thread .
I did check out some of the concept artwork on your myspace and it looks really nice. Perhaps you could post some of it on the forums.
I am also curious to what weapons you are using in the console version and if you modified them at all .

we'll be doing some releases of the concept artwork soon, there is much more.

here are the weapons being kept and whats going on

This is being tweaked for team based game play - think Gears of War or Killzone 2 how there are 2 factions, however, it is pretty much only a aesthetic and fiction setting oversetting

All weapons now have melee combat at any time

Shotgun - Forsellian and Kavussari both have their own Shotgun they spawn with
Machine gun - it is the weapon the Kavussari is holding on the website (red team)
Hagar - Kavussari weapon - small white gun in screenshots
Rocket Launcher - Kavussari weapon - controlling the rocket after fire left on by default
Mortar - Kavussari Weapon
ElectroGun - Forsellian Weapon
Nex - Forsellian Weapon, he is holding it on the website (blue team)
HLAC - Forsellian Weapon - the other blue colored weapon in the pictures
CryLink - Forsellian Weapon

This is it for now, please keep in mind a lot of things (such as InstaGib) is part of the new dynamic mutator system. I will talk about this later it is just not fully designed yet. Right now we have things initially in, its still very early to tell what adjustments we'll be making. Yes we did take the laser out, only because it isn't as useful when using thumb sticks as well as the keymapping of a controller being too filled up.

Kedhrin wrote:As I said before, the name will remain Nexuiz for now. This will not change right now. It is not up for debate. We as IllFonic want you guys to be apart of our community and to be happy. Some things we cannot do. If the name not changing is one of those things, I cannot do anything to change your mind. I am sorry - but it is what it is. If you think an NDA is useless and how it prevents me from saying things is an excuse - i have nothing to say to you either. I appreciate those of you who are asking us about the name change and giving suggestions very politely. Please understand we are not going to change the name right now.

Just for the sake of it, I'm tempted to ask why. Why can't the name be changed, given that this is the main issue that upsets us most (and the effort that would be most highly appreciated on Illfonic's side)? Is it because of a signed paper? I know we keep bugging you about it, but this is the issue which affects us most. We'd like to know why you can't do such a small effort that could fix more than half of this story? And why so strongly determined to have no debate on it?

Kedhrin wrote:This thread was hijacked about complaints about us taking the name, which should have been brought to me in private or on another thread - not blasted on a thread where people will look to it for information on what we are doing. THIS is why it was locked. It is not a censorship issue. If I wanted to censor you, I would've just deleted the thread. I can be a complete dick and flex my muscle but I'm not going to do that, that is not our company lifestyle. People are insulting us on our own areas as well. We do not delete these things. We are professionals.

I agree some people were rude. I myself try to be nice, but you must understand that many people in the community are VERY upset about this. It is to be expected, even if our community is generally nice (or so it seems to me and other members). Even if you might really not meant any harm, you do appear as someone who has hijacked us and ripped us. It's difficult for many members to force theirselves to stay calm while envisioning you as that... this has hurt some of us badly.

And (nothing harmful nor hateful intended) I am totally and beyond doubt sure that no person (who is at a normal level of consciousness) could have possibly not guessed that doing such a thing would hurt us greatly. I mean think about this: If you had your own project you have been working on for years, then one day another project named the same way started and that project took your website, how would you feel? Would you not feel like us once you suddenly found out about it? It's IMPOSSIBLE that anyone would not predict this.

Kedhrin wrote:I came on the IRC channel and was way willing to talk about the project and what we are doing (http://nexuizfiles.com/illfonic/kedhrin ... iscussion/) - BTW I am not the Lead Programmer
I am already talking about WAY more than any other publisher would ever talk to you guys about. Most people in the industry would call me insane for even getting on your IRC room and opening myself up like I am to an open source community. But I did it and I'm trying. I'm hearing from all over my peers in the industry to just stop talking to you guys but I insist on not giving up. This is not marketing mumbo-jumbo. If you don't believe it, I cannot convince you.

If you want to threaten me with press threats or otherwise, I have nothing to say to you. Do what you want, I wont even try to stop you.

I admit I find it a nice and rare thing for the owner of a commercial company to be this open, so at least for that I congratulate you. But once again, you must understand that most of us are (rightfully) upset at you, and the scars are too deep to be healed easily.

Kedhrin wrote:We have many things planned for the community existing, including giving away some of our hard work on the source code - for free, crediting the original community in the credits (as supplied by the community) as well as Beta Invites and potentially free copies of the game. These are things I can talk about and want to talk about. As well as much much more, including features, how we work, what our work flow is etc.

But, if you choose to ignore this, i will gladly return the favor and ignore you.

Thanks.

That is a nice thing, but sadly cannot fix the harm that was done. It's like stealing a wallet with 1000$ in it and giving 5$ back to whom you stole it from.

Lastly, in the hope that this wasn't done only and only for the money... the only thing I can ask you openly is to learn from this mistake, and know not to do it again. No community would ever be happy if their project got copied and partly stolen, unless that community has enough mental issues to keep them from developing anything at all. In case you might have not predicted the harm this would cause (again, I find that impossible to not predict) at least keep this in mind and not hurt other opensource project with a similar approach.

Hey look a free copy of Nexuiz for the Xbox360!

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/ ... index.html

Kenhdrin, obviously the biggest source of contention is the name. I think everyone can agree with this.

Initially, you said you cannot change the name. Now you're saying, you won't change the name "at this time". I sense a small backtrack here. Why?

As I said before, this console project has started off on a very bad note, due to the reaction of the community, and the news of such spreading through the interwebs faster than a wildfire. Maybe if you gave a good reason as to "why" you cannot change the name, to something that includes the word Nexuiz, but also separates it from the original game, people might be more understanding. Right now, people think it's not a matter of can't(because frankly, that makes no sense), but a matter of won't.

You say you're a businessman, but if you do not have the vision to see how this is unfolding, and why, than I really cannot help you, and believe it or not, I am trying to help you, and the Nexuiz community at the same time. I have nothing invested in Nexuiz, I did not work on the game, and am not really a true part of the community. Well I'm fairly sure you know who I am anyway, but that is beside the point. I would like to see the console project benefit the original game, and vice versa, but the rigidity in regards to the name will in fact undo it. Clearly you have to see that this poor relationship that exists with the Nexuiz community over the name will harm your project. So how will you work to rectify the situation?

antidote wrote:Look, I've spent thousands of hours working on my own engine, I know what kind of effort went into this project. However I also know that contribution doesn't guarantee you'll get complete say in what happens. Truthfully anyone who contributes to a project like this is a pawn for the real people in charge (the AT ). You don't see people over at Polycount complaining about id using some of their concepts as a base for a project (in fact they are usually flattered) you people are just to attached to your toy, it's time to let it go and see it grow up.


EDIT:
Also, the source code is GPL'd not the name, if a big name company like EA came buy and gave you a C&D because you are using the name of a project they just started guess what! The courts will automatically side with EA if a suit starts because they own the Trademark.

You really just pissed me off with that comment about being attached to this "toy".

Kedhrin wrote:The texture pack may not be relevant as most textures that could be used for BSP are rather simple. Almost all of our textures are made for custom unwraps, some are tiling but I don't see how you could use them without a massive global revamp of all your assets (like what we're doing). The player models may be possible - keep in mind when we acted these animations out we kept in mind the armor on our character concepts. So they may not be too good. However, we do have a shit ton of extra mocap animations that do require animations. We can also potentially offer tutorials on how to use the new animation system (which allow for upper and lower body blends as well as other improvements). This is further down the road, however.

what i wanted to say is that some things are hardly need like new animations, if you provide the community you will regain some respect you lost with your actions in the past

wow, the BEST gpl fps i've ever played in my life. I told people about how great it was. Oh well, seems that alien trap's people are pulling an well, every big corporate deal that's ever been seen. First off, money does rule the world we all already know that. But selling content that's apparently not being based around the original game as this random guy who dealed with two people said, but keeping the name of the game seems pretty bad to me. Since they said it's only using the engine, why the hell would you still call it Nexuiz?

This type of behavior reminds me of the people over at planeshift. Their license is horrible and the company's not exactly nice but claims to be "open source", seems that Alien trap's heads are going to sell out the name of their game for cash. Oh well, i'll probably never be playing it again. Gotta love how it all works out. I wasn't a developer, but i can tell you this much. If my hard work was thrown away and i didn't get any say in it, i'd be furious and be seeing some people in court over this issue. Oh well though, as i said before seems that GPL Nexuiz is going to exist but Nexuiz as it was known is completely gone and we'll have all of those people who love Nexuiz coming to the PC version and going what the hell is this? This isn't Nexuiz this is a pile of shit, blah blah blah. As they all do since it's not exactly like how their console game was.

No one's above money at Alien Trap it seems... farewall wonderful community hope you can still have your game in the next few years. That is, unless it too gets completely sold off.

1. Everyone keeps directing hate towards IllFonic. Guys these people owe us nothing, they are making a business move and so far have gone about it in a perfectly legal manner and it seems that because they know where were coming from and they have experienced projects of this nature before, they are in-fact being more than open to talk to us and even hinting at helping our project(whether this will happen is anyone's guess, they are under no legal obligation to do so). The only people who owe us an explanation and who we should be directing questions to are Alientrap. These are the people we have been building this project for and its them that have given it away, obviously for money.

2.The name. This will NEVER be returned so everyone needs to get over it. This has been sold by Alientrap as well as the domain name. We will be lucky to even have a mention on the page. This also is only a question for Alientrap!!! If they have not put in any kind of clause in the contract to have GPL Nexuiz mentioned then it is now to IllFonics discretion whether it is mentioned. I doubt there are any kind of clauses which Alientrap have put in the contract to secure GPL Nexuiz. IMO Nexuiz has been completely sold out and there is nothing anyone can do. This is once again Alientrap's decision and once again this is where the question's should be headed! IllFonic have pulled a smart move with the name, Nexuiz is already a well know brand its had over 2million individual downloads from different hosts. Established brand "Tick".

3. We are now expandable but also we as a unit are quite powerful and strong, hence why we are in this thread being informed and being kept sweet so far! We are the Nexuiz community and we are the current gamers and there are many of us. Established brand has been ticked but we are the players and we are 2million strong. What im trying to say is we have already found Nexuiz and we are a massive amount of gamers(who obvioulsy enjoy this type of game, audience "tick")that this new Nexuiz will need to succeed(at least in the beginning). We would definitely give this game a massive boost to start. The question is after what's happened are you willing to move with the new Nexuiz? I believe we are great use to IllFonic right now but once/if the game takes off we just become regular players making money for the company with no reward but from playing and getting satisfaction from the game itself. IMO what we have and love about "our" Nexuiz has gone! The only way it can move on is to start another project. We have had no information or reassurance from Alientrap about what to do with GPL Nexuiz so as far as they are concerned the deal is done and whatever happens to "Our" Nexuiz does not matter in the slightest.

4. Did I mention Money??? Alientrap IMO owe the main developers who have put so much work into this project money. If they are going to be true to this project and they do actually have some decency the guys who have worked tirelessly on this project need to be rewarded. If they have sold out Nexuiz for money then they need to reward the guys who have actually made it what it is over the last few years. They owe this out of moral respect for the people who have made this game what it is and the riches they are seeking. If this does not happen this truly is just a selfish money making move, out of pure greed.

I do not blame IllFonic, in-fact I believe they have made one smart ass move to take this excellent game on. Its Alientrap who have sold out this community based free project. It was Alientrap's decision and their decision alone to sell Nexuiz!

We desperately need to hear from Alientrap about what "their" plans are to do with GPL Nexuiz. And an entire full/lengthy explanation about what has happened to the game we play and have built and made it what it is today!!! If this does not happen immediately there is no point in working on this GPL Nexuiz project at all and we should move on and start something else. Because Nexuiz has been sold out already and if there is no explanation from Alientrap then they seriously do not not give a shit at all. So why should we??? That's the truth!

SC0RP wrote:4. Did I mention Money??? Alientrap IMO owe the main developers who have put so much work into this project money. If they are going to be true to this project and they do actually have some decency the guys who have worked tirelessly on this project need to be rewarded. If they have sold out Nexuiz for money then they need to reward the guys who have actually made it what it is over the last few years. They owe this out of moral respect for the people who have made this game what it is and the riches they are seeking. If this does not happen this truly is just a selfish money making move, out of pure greed.

The question is what is alientrap? The only thing, which is sure at the moment alientrap is not the developer of nexuiz

Urcscumug wrote:1.2 IS TAKING OVER THE "NEXUIZ" NAME LEGAL?

Names/brands fall under trademark law, not copyright. To have the rights to a trademark, you have to register it, and you have to actively protect it, in order to be able to claim rights to it and not lose those rights by being idle about it.

AFAIK, Alien Trap owns a trademark for "Nexuiz". Presumably, they have transferred it to Illfonic (or otherwise permitted them to use it, possibly exclusively). That means that Illfonic has a legal right to the name "Nexuiz". You, the community, have none. You have a moral right, sure, but I'm afraid that doesn't count, legally.

Actually i am not all in all sure about this. We are in a real legal gray area here and there's potential for precedents. The nexuiz trademark was never registered, but it was established through its use (which at least in the US is also a way of aquiring a trademark).

The point being is that the trademark nexuiz was used for a very particular product which has not been created solely by "Alientrap" or Lee but rather it was used by a whole community of users and developers/contributors. Thus i believe it to be disputable to say that Lee had the sole rights to license away the trademark.. But before having talked to a trademark lawyer i think it's very difficult to give definite answers in this case.

Some of us pondered talking to the FSF about this, but i guess they would only be interested if there was a copyright violation involving GPL protected code.

cortez wrote:The question is what is alientrap? The only thing, which is sure at the moment alientrap is not the developer of nexuiz

Exactly!!!

MODERATOR NOTE: PLEASE EVERYONE ENABLE BBCODES IN HIS REPLIES! YOU CAN SET THAT IN YOUR POFILES!

Thank you

C.Brutail wrote:MODERATOR NOTE: PLEASE EVERYONE ENABLE BBCODES IN HIS REPLIES! YOU CAN SET THAT IN YOUR POFILES!

Thank you

why that?

I strongly suggest that everyopne reads Urcscumug's post over, as it is a _very_ good summary of the whole situation. The only thing I disagree with is that we need to immideatly prepare for a name change etc. as I'm currently willing to take at face value, especially from Forest that he intend to do what he can to keep the original project benefiting from this.

Alien Trap owns a trademark for "Nexuiz".

Not really. As already stated they've aquired partial right through use, this only applies to the US.

I've checked with both the United States Patent and Trademark Office and with The Trademarks and Designs Registration Office of the European Union. The name Nexuiz is not registered in any way. Meaning anyone can just go and take it.

There are some problems in the US law to prohibit this (although no matter what the law says, it's ALWAYS the side with the most money winning...) but this does not apply for the EU.

Hey look a free copy of Nexuiz for the Xbox360!

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/ ... index.html

I just looked at the Gamespot forums. THERE IS ALREADY CONFUSION BETWEEN FeeNex and Nexuiz!

Kedhrin, I'm glad you're back and that you try to continue communicating with us.
First of, I'd like to assure you and Illfonic that generally I don't mind if you make a console version of Nexuiz. In fact, deep inside I feel happy and proud. Yes, you were right that it's an indie developer's dream, that his game goes commercial, and gains more attention and respect.
What does bother me though is the way it was handled, and yes, Vermeulen and LordHavoc is mainly responsible for this situation.
So, you seek to get feedback on your game? Here it goes:
I won't talk about the looks and gameplay, because everyone can see it looks bloody awesome, and we can't really talk about gameplay as noone has ever tried it.
What I suggest you however, that you keep communicating with us. You might know because you've came from the Quake community, that we're very open minded and talkative persons.
If you're the only developer from Illfonic, who keeps regularly posting here, it's fine. But I strongly suggest for others to join us here, and introduce themselves. I don't know why people in the commercial industry think that keeping in touch with the masses is a "low level" thing.
Let me reveal you the secret of Nexuiz's succes: it was the constant communication between developers and the players/fans. I know this is not common for commercial projects. But as you can see, this works. What really hooked I think most people is the opennes of the developers, and the fact that they do cared what the community gave them back as feedback.
I was totally blown away, when in the old 1.0 days I could chat with Vermeulen, LordHavoc, H. Reaper, Innovati, KadaverJack, MauveBib etc. who I thought were untouchable entities, but no, they came to us, and chatted as regular persons. Just to mention, the same happened with the Quake live beta, on irc we could always have a few words with guys from id, in case they were online.
Don't believe though, that every move on the game's development was decided by the community. To be precise, it was a constant dialogue, and when the developers thought everybody is happy, they have made decisions. That doesn't mean there were no excludes, like on weapon balance, when the developers have made changes without asking the community. But we could live with that, on all the other changes we had voice.
I'm not asking you to reveal secret aspects of the game, that would be stupid, and I wouldn't even do it. Just some general infos.
Try to communicate with us with friendlyness and respect, and cut out the marketing bullshit.

tChr wrote:I strongly suggest that everyopne reads Urcscumug's post over, as it is a _very_ good summary of the whole situation. The only thing I disagree with is that we need to immideatly prepare for a name change etc. as I'm currently willing to take at face value, especially from Forest that he intend to do what he can to keep the original project benefiting from this.

I agree with Urcscumug's point about the name change actually.

Not long from now Joe Users are going to associate Nexuiz with the commercial version. Do you really think Joe User is going to notice the small button linking to the original project on the bottom of Nexuiz.com? No.

I would suggest changing the name ASAP. Ask [-z-] to build a new website, set up a new code repository on SourceForge or Google Code. If the Alientrap developers really have an interest to backport code enhancements made to the DP engine for the console port, they can still submit patches to the new project.

Disclaimer: I'm neither a coder nor a regular player. However I used to be part of the original RBI-Clan, a group of comp. sci. students at the University of Frankfurt. Also part of the clan were KadaverJack, who got us into playing Nexuiz - he was very enthusiastic about the game long before 1.0 was released - and divVerent, whose opinion on this whole mess would be interesting to read.

Urcscumug wrote:[First of all, a disclaimer: I'm nobody. I don't play Nexuiz regularly, I can't claim to be a member of this community, I'm not a developer, nor a contributor of any kind. I have no affiliations to anybody related to Nexuiz.

I'm just a guy with some understanding of the issues regarding the Nexuiz relicense and a hobby-level interest in FOSS and software licenses. I'm also part of a fellow game community (Tremulous) so I can empathize with you guys.

I'd like to share my knowledge. I'm hoping it will clear the air. I'm putting some time and thought into this so please read it through at least once. (If you don't have the time, I've marked key ideas so you can skim through.) Thank you.]

Although this is an excellent explanation to what is occurring here and suggestions on how we act to the situation. The chances of someone coming on here and spending a lot of time to explain this to us from another site having no "so-called" relation to this game or anyone involved in this project is very very doubtful. Whoever you are, Im pretty certain you have been asked to tell us this information at the request of IllFonic. No?

It sounds like everything they want to say to us but they cant because if they did too many backs would be turned up. No?

However I agree with pretty much all you have said and I agree this had to be said. Nothing can change what has happened all that can change is what "we" as a community who built this project do about it!

I'm pretty much doubt Urcscumug is form Illfonic, don't be paranoid.

C.Brutail wrote:I'm pretty much doubt Urcscumug is form Illfonic, don't be paranoid.

that would fit to the last part he wrote

C.Brutail wrote:I'm pretty much doubt Urcscumug is form Illfonic, don't be paranoid.

I wasnt suggesting he was from IllFonic. Im thinking this guy has been instructed to tell us this information at the request of IllFonic.

Maybe I am being paranoid, but expect a whole lot more of this until we get an explanation from Alientrap about what the hell has happened here and what the plans are, why they did the deal and every other detail involving the decision to sell-out Nexuiz.

It is in-fact already too late for an explanation, we should of been informed of this change way before it just got thrown at us. Nexuiz has never ever been a 2man or 1 company show, its been an ever changing ever expanding project build by many many people. The community should of been informed right at the beginning! Its down right disrespectful not to even explain the changes to the people who built this game! The developers and many others must be devastated and to not be informed about this after all the hard work put in, it is down right rude!

We need to know(officially)from Alientrap what the hell the deal is here. Not by individually emailing them but here on our public forum to EVERYONE!

Until we get an explanation, this will never get solved!

Kedhrin wrote:If you want to threaten me with press threats or otherwise, I have nothing to say to you. Do what you want, I wont even try to stop you.

This is the only thing im going respond to. Since you clearly refuse to listen otherwise. I was the one who who posted the collaboration piratepad link on IRC. I also made sure that shit could not get out of hand by saying dual signatures (two factor authentication) would be a safety measurement, since people was worried about what the statement could end up as. This was a effective way to stave of the lone gunmen, by giving easy access to something were community members could blow of some steam and work together to compile a image of what happened. By saying this, I hope you understand what that means. No?
Well then, let me explain it to you:

·First of all, it implies that there are not much that we can control other than ourself, especially when it comes to other angry people. So the lone gunmen need some direction.
·Secondly, this is already spreading. There is nothing that can be done other than all involved start communicating on a even more leveled field. tZork is right. Not more of what you already tried.

So the above means that, there is no point for you to talk like there was something to bargain with in the first place.
You nor I or anyone in this community can ·do shit about the press getting a hold of this within a week· from now. Community members will still feel shit _when_ this happened and still will IF you don't change your minds about things. I will certainly not send the statement. It have started to happen stuff, the cold war is loosening up, hopefully by communication. Like I said, its a matter of time. Do what you can to minimize goodwill damage.

The only one that is threatening your endeavor with all of this IF anyone, is yourself, with your own silence and stubbornness.
For goodness sake. Split the frontpage of nexuiz.com with a 50/50 visibility for both projects. I dont mind stuff getting some commercialization, what I do mind is the dragging in the dirt/hogging of the name by bad, so bad, PR with the community and the disrespectful behavior towards the devs.
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I agree with tChr, that people really should read Urcscumug's post.
I also agree with Urcscumug's conclusions.
However lda17h have a point.

Could someone explain to me why I cant use phpBB code? Its on as default in my settings.

SC0RP wrote:

C.Brutail wrote:I'm pretty much doubt Urcscumug is form Illfonic, don't be paranoid.

I wasnt suggesting he was from IllFonic. Im thinking this guy has been instructed to tell us this information at the request of IllFonic.

http://identi.ca/urcscumug
http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?ac ... =statPanel

End of story.

Ilaith wrote:

Alien Trap owns a trademark for "Nexuiz".

Not really. As already stated they've aquired partial right through use, this only applies to the US.

I've checked with both the United States Patent and Trademark Office and with The Trademarks and Designs Registration Office of the European Union. The name Nexuiz is not registered in any way. Meaning anyone can just go and take it.

There are some problems in the US law to prohibit this (although no matter what the law says, it's ALWAYS the side with the most money winning...) but this does not apply for the EU.

So we could use this name too right? at least in EU.