http://www.notam02.no/~clund/nexuiz/RustVents.pk3

This is a CTF map. DM is enabled, but I think this map is way too large for that.

I decided to skip the transparent textures thing - because I couldn't get them to work. So those brushes are now solid. The file size is a bit larger than that of most maps. Maybe I should reduce the quality of the textures?

How do I get this thing onto a server? I'd like to see how it works with real players (instead of bots).

looks like a really promising CTF map!

I'll wait for a release with some bugfixing and then put it on my CTF server !

Thanks for taking my suggestion about the textures. It looks much better, and easier on the eyes.

Takhis Debates rustvents 0 of 12
195.249.40.23:23000
or
takhis.net:23000

There you go, its not the worlds greatest server but none the less

Very unique map. A few thoughts:
- Are the mega health and strength/invincibility supposed to overlap like they do?
- The stairs look kinda like they're just floating in mid air; maybe add some backing support (this is entirely superficial, but it helps in making the map feel more natural)
- A skybox could add even more depth to the level; try finding one that really helps set the mood

torus wrote:Thanks for taking my suggestion about the textures. It looks much better, and easier on the eyes.

You're welcome. I have an unfortunate tendency to overuse the same textures.

BTW: Where's your avatar from? A film? Something you did yourself?

Vociferous wrote:Takhis Debates rustvents 0 of 12
195.249.40.23:23000
or
takhis.net:23000

There you go, its not the worlds greatest server but none the less

Couldn't find it. How does one join directly to a server in Nex? Through the console? (in which case; what's the cmd?)

Shoe wrote:Very unique map. A few thoughts:
- Are the mega health and strength/invincibility supposed to overlap like they do?

They don't. First one gets the health, and then the powerup. But your question makes me think maybe they're too close together. The intention was to get the player to think the health was all there was. Maybe I should just remove the health from those locations.

- The stairs look kinda like they're just floating in mid air; maybe add some backing support (this is entirely superficial, but it helps in making the map feel more natural)

They have support. But the supports are narrow and in the shade, so I guess they aren't very visible.

- A skybox could add even more depth to the level; try finding one that really helps set the mood

Eh? That map has a skybox. It works too... at least on my machine..

Clueless Newbie wrote:BTW: Where's your avatar from? A film? Something you did yourself?

Man may never know.

Clueless Newbie wrote:

- A skybox could add even more depth to the level; try finding one that really helps set the mood

Eh? That map has a skybox. It works too... at least on my machine..

It looked just plain white to me, unless that's what you were going for

Clueless Newbie wrote:

Vociferous wrote:Takhis Debates rustvents 0 of 12
195.249.40.23:23000
or
takhis.net:23000

There you go, its not the worlds greatest server but none the less

Couldn't find it. How does one join directly to a server in Nex? Through the console? (in which case; what's the cmd?)

Open the console type this:

connect 195.249.40.23:23000 or connect takhis.net:23000

The map looks pretty cool. Although I would have liked to see some textures using bump mapping. That would look fantastic. Also, I would have like some way of getting into those pipes without laser jumping as once you have the quad and are on the ground you're basically out of luck. Other than that all I have to say is...Big!

Mr.Carlyle wrote:Open the console type this:

connect 195.249.40.23:23000 or connect takhis.net:23000

Thanks. I couldn't remember hte command.

One oddity I noticed on that server was that the powerups (strength, health, and shield) lay on the ground rather than hang suspended high up in the pipes - which they do when I test the map on my comp. What gives?

The map looks pretty cool. Although I would have liked to see some textures using bump mapping. That would look fantastic.

? All the textures in that map have bump maps and normal maps.

Also, I would have like some way of getting into those pipes without laser jumping as once you have the quad and are on the ground you're basically out of luck. Other than that all I have to say is...Big!

Thanks.

Shoe wrote:It looked just plain white to me, unless that's what you were going for

The skybox I made is a light grey sky with shades of red, blue, and white. Not a flat white surface.

Hmm..

Clueless Newbie wrote:

Mr.Carlyle wrote:Open the console type this:

connect 195.249.40.23:23000 or connect takhis.net:23000

Thanks. I couldn't remember hte command.

One oddity I noticed on that server was that the powerups (strength, health, and shield) lay on the ground rather than hang suspended high up in the pipes - which they do when I test the map on my comp. What gives?

You are probably using an old Nexuiz version. To make items not fall down, you have to give them the spawnflag 1 or the property "noalign" with value "1". This rule actually existed before, but how they fall down changed.

Speaking of the skybox, no idea, the map is too large for me to download now. Will check later.

Expecting a bugfixed version soon... and will put it on the RBI server then.

Can you also evenly distribute DM spawn points to the areas that have no CTF spawn points? Then the map would probably work for keyhunt too.

Speaking of the file size... it really is too large. Do something about it. Maybe you can reduce the JPEG quality factor.

12528k - your JPG files
10276k - after a lossless jpegoptim run (apparently your JPG writing tools are bad and wasteful) and removing EXIF data and comments (jpegoptim --strip-all *.jpg)
6604k - after reducing to 95% quality (jpegoptim --strip-all -m95 *,jpg)
4748k - after reducing to 90% quality (jpegoptim --strip-all -m90 *,jpg)
3888k - after reducing to 85% quality (jpegoptim --strip-all -m85 *,jpg)

The 95% variant is certainly harmless, the others may be too much. Just try that out... this alone would bring the pk3 to an acceptable size.

Also, making the ZIP with 7zip saves another 420k.

If you want, I can do these changes for you - tell me so and I'll fix, optimize and repack it for you.

Are your _norm textures generated from the _bump ones (in which case you can delete them as DP would autogenerate them anyway) or are they "true" normalmaps?

Edit: my optimized and fixed version is now at http://hagger.rbi.informatik.uni-frankf ... -test1.pk3. If you accept it, I will rename it to Rustvents.pk3, otherwise I'll wait for your version.

divVerent wrote:One oddity I noticed on that server was that the powerups (strength, health, and shield) lay on the ground rather than hang suspended high up in the pipes - which they do when I test the map on my comp. What gives?

You are probably using an old Nexuiz version. To make items not fall down, you have to give them the spawnflag 1 or the property "noalign" with value "1". This rule actually existed before, but how they fall down changed.[/quote]
I'll give it a shot. I won't be able to test this to make sure it works, though, since it already works the way I want on my machine.

Can you also evenly distribute DM spawn points to the areas that have no CTF spawn points? Then the map would probably work for keyhunt too.

The DM spawn points are already spread out on the map. But I can add some more.

Are there any other changes that need to be made to make this map useful for KH?

Speaking of the file size... it really is too large.

Yeah.. I wondered about that.. The file is 2-3 times larger than the average Nex map.

If you want, I can do these changes for you - tell me so and I'll fix, optimize and repack it for you.

That would save me a lot of work, so please do - but wait until I've uploaded a new version; there are some changes that need to be made.

Too late, hope I don't have to do all the work twice. I added a keyhunt mapcfg, optimized all the JPEG files and added the spawnflag 1 to the suspended entities (eight in total, I think - two strength, two shield, four health100).

Keyhunt requires nothing else - just big maps and many spawnpoints.

Rustvents is now being played on RBI.

divVerent wrote:Too late, hope I don't have to do all the work twice. I added a keyhunt mapcfg, optimized all the JPEG files and added the spawnflag 1 to the suspended entities (eight in total, I think - two strength, two shield, four health100).

No, I don't think you'd have to do it all again. I won't be changing the textures, so you can just repack the optimized ones with the new bsp once I've compiled the map again. In fact, when the time comes I'll just send you a link to the bsp and then you can repackage it. But that won't be until I've played the map on RBI a couple of times to see what other changes need to be made.

How do you add "spawnflag 1", btw? Key:Spawnflag Value: 1?

Keyhunt requires nothing else - just big maps and many spawnpoints.

Did you add spawns to the map or were there enough?

Rustvents is now being played on RBI.

Clueless Newbie wrote:No, I don't think you'd have to do it all again. I won't be changing the textures, so you can just repack the optimized ones with the new bsp once I've compiled the map again. In fact, when the time comes I'll just send you a link to the bsp and then you can repackage it. But that won't be until I've played the map on RBI a couple of times to see what other changes need to be made.

Actually, the textures are the simplest part - one single comamnd line.

How do you add "spawnflag 1", btw? Key:Spawnflag Value: 1?

Almost: key is spawnflags, value is 1.

Keyhunt requires nothing else - just big maps and many spawnpoints.

Did you add spawns to the map or were there enough?

I think there were enough. Maybe you could add some more in the middle area though, but not needed.

And... don't send just the BSP, but maybe the BSP and the MAP.

Also... did you consider changing -samplesize when compiling the map (maybe to 16)? That would get the BSP smaller, but make shadows a bit jagged (which shouldn't be visible on your map much, also you can use -filter and -samples 3 in the -light stage to counter that). Also worth trying is setting gridsize in worldspawn to something higher. In capturecity for example, I added a key gridsize with value 128 128 128 to worldspawn. The higher, the less accurate the player model and item lighting gets, but the smaller the BSP gets. Also, don't forget to specify -deluxe in the lighting stage for better visuals (and so your normal maps get actually used), I haven't checked yet if you did!

If you want, I can also try recompiling the map with different settings to check out quality and BSP file size. But I can't do that now, maybe later.

divVerent wrote:did you consider changing -samplesize when compiling the map (maybe to 16)? That would get the BSP smaller, but make shadows a bit jagged (which shouldn't be visible on your map much, also you can use -filter and -samples 3 in the -light stage to counter that). Also worth trying is setting gridsize in worldspawn to something higher. In capturecity for example, I added a key gridsize with value 128 128 128 to worldspawn. The higher, the less accurate the player model and item lighting gets, but the smaller the BSP gets. Also, don't forget to specify -deluxe in the lighting stage for better visuals (and so your normal maps get actually used), I haven't checked yet if you did!

I see the necessity of a smaller map file, but I also want the map to look good. I have to find a middle ground there.. B/
The switches I used to compile this map in the light phaze were:

-bouncegrid
-deluxemap
-shade
-bounce 8
-samples 8

I'll check out your suggestions the next time I compile this thing.

If you want, I can also try recompiling the map with different settings to check out quality and BSP file size. But I can't do that now, maybe later.

Sure.

Yes, deluxemapping is on, and your settings are basically good - just try adding -samplesize 32 to the BSP stage and perhaps -filter and/or -samples 3 to counter the impact of -samplesize to the quality. I don't think you can do much more to reduce the BSP file size - the map just IS huge.

I am now doing a test compile with -samplesize 32 and -fast, the rest being at default settings, to see how small the BSP file will get.

One thing you might want to add in future versions is some water. I mean, where is all the rust coming from, anyway? Some of the Ruiner water in some of the rooms might add a neat effect.

torus wrote:One thing you might want to add in future versions is some water. I mean, where is all the rust coming from, anyway? Some of the Ruiner water in some of the rooms might add a neat effect.

Ooh, that's a good suggestion. Seconded

Shoe wrote:

torus wrote:One thing you might want to add in future versions is some water. I mean, where is all the rust coming from, anyway? Some of the Ruiner water in some of the rooms might add a neat effect.

Ooh, that's a good suggestion. Seconded

I did in fact consider adding some puddles in parts of the map. It would also have been cool to add a few centimetres of water to the floor of the flag rooms and the spawn rooms nearby. But there were two things that prevented me from doing this:

1: File size. This map is one huge pig as it is. I'm not adding anything not directly related to gameplay.

2: The OGL effects for the mac don't work right when there is liquid on the map. And until this is fixed - either through a workaround in the engine or an outright fix in the drivers for my video card - there will be no liquids in any of my maps.

So, yes, I agree with your desires for liquids. But...

divVerent wrote:Are your _norm textures generated from the _bump ones (in which case you can delete them as DP would autogenerate them anyway) or are they "true" normalmaps?

The normalmaps are generated from my bumpmaps. If the engine does that anyway, then I don't think I'll waste any more time making normalmaps. Feel free to save download time by ditching them.

divVerent wrote:Yes, deluxemapping is on, and your settings are basically good - just try adding -samplesize 32 to the BSP stage and perhaps -filter and/or -samples 3 to counter the impact of -samplesize to the quality. I don't think you can do much more to reduce the BSP file size - the map just IS huge.

I am now doing a test compile with -samplesize 32 and -fast, the rest being at default settings, to see how small the BSP file will get.

BTW: Since you're poking around in my map anyway, do you think you could help me make transparent textures? I've pretty much given up on this by now, but...

If you take a look at the thread called "Transparency - I'm not doing it right" - started by me - you'll find a screenshot of the texture I want to have transparent and further down in the thread links to the textures in question. I'm pretty sure by now that I've got the textures w/alpha channels right, but the scripts are all wrong (and not present in the version you've been working on).

So, if you have the time to take a look...

I have no idea about this, I just know that it works for my map capturecity.

Maybe the shader just isn't used? Try putting the shader file you made in the shaderlist.txt file in your Nexuiz folder. And look at the EXACT q3map2 messages when compiling.

divVerent wrote:I have no idea about this, I just know that it works for my map capturecity.

Maybe the shader just isn't used? Try putting the shader file you made in the shaderlist.txt file in your Nexuiz folder. And look at the EXACT q3map2 messages when compiling.

Oh, the shader is used; there are two other textures in the shader text (the skybox and the lights) and they work just fine. Also, the shaders I've tried to make transparency have an obvious effect. It's just that I can't get the shaders to have the right effect.

But hte next ime I look at this, I'll try usinng your capturecity shaders and see how they work.

In capturecity, the transparent ones are the ad_ ones (the ones I use to put the ads on the buildings).

divVerent wrote:In capturecity, the transparent ones are the ad_ ones (the ones I use to put the ads on the buildings).

I did a cut and paste of one of your shaders, and altered it to this:

Code: Select all

textures/rustvents/girder
{
   surfaceparm trans
   cull none
   surfaceparm nonsolid
   surfaceparm detail
   polygonOffset
   qer_editorimage textures/rustvents/girder.tga
   {
      map textures/rustvents/girder.tga
      rgbGen identity
      blendfunc GL_SRC_ALPHA GL_ONE_MINUS_SRC_ALPHA
   }
   {
      map $lightmap
      blendfunc filter
      rgbGen identity
      tcGen lightmap
   }
}


"girder.tga" is a replacement for "rustframe.jpg". The result was still not correct. The brushes are rendered "inside out" and there is no shading at all. No transparency either.