edit: hydronexb7 features a very small rim under the bunker window so you can laserjump both from above and below. Plus the pee is replaced with nice fresh water.

http://savagex.planetnexuiz.de/hydronexb7.pk3

So that's where I heard the elevators!

I appreciate the improvements on hydronex4.

Some aspects of hydronex:
There's a funnel point to getting into base. This has good and bad points. It causes congestion which makes it hard to enter, but it also causes defenders to step on each others toes if they aren't paying attention. I do really well on defending this map by basically camping that entrance, but my efforts get thwarted usually by my own teammates (on public servers).

If someone does not cover that entrance, then many people can laser their way into base and snag the flag. The result is that people tend to just camp in base because, many times, if someone gets the flag, they can escape and get back to base relatively easily because of the teleporter exit. The hard part is getting into the base with enough health/armor. If you get that far, then capping isn't nearly as hard, especially if you attack as a group. I don't think it shoudl be that hard to enter base (re: the funnel point), but I also think it shoudl be harder to leave base (re: teleporter).

If I were to see another version of hydronex, I would like to see two things...

1) have two entrances into base that aren't teleporters. Perhaps expand the ceiling near the base entrance and have an upper and lower entrance. (think lavaflag)

2) remove the teleporter or change it so people can't ROCKET JUMP out through the teleporter and get back to their base within 2 seconds. Teleporters already give people a boost. Add that to a rocket jump and you can see how people can fly back to base way too quickly using that technique.

Otherwise, I appreciate the changes to the water area and that the base area seems to have more space for movement near the entrance. That extra space allows attackers to enter base easier, but it also keeps defenders from getting in each other's way as much.

Dokujisan wrote:2) remove the teleporter or change it so people can't ROCKET JUMP out through the teleporter and get back to their base within 2 seconds. Teleporters already give people a boost. Add that to a rocket jump and you can see how people can fly back to base way too quickly using that technique.

Yep, let them splat on the wall or on the ground when they use the tele :p

Bump. See modifed first post.

Nice man, interesting changes. The grate should make for some interesting situations. I'd like to see a side exit through some sort of hallway that hooks around but I understand if you want to keep it simple.

I just feel like there is still only 1 way in the base.

[-z-] wrote:I just feel like there is still only 1 way in the base.

Well, once you notice you can laserjump + crouch into the bunker you'll see that you won't have to fight your way to the main entrance anymore. This way one for sure has to defend two positions: The area behind the main entrance and the bunker itself (which used to be pretty neglegted in previous versions).

Let's see how this changes things. It's prettty likely I'll produce another tweaked version if necessary - and of course everybody is invited to extract the .map source from the .pk3 to modify things according to own taste.

SavageX wrote:Well, once you notice you can laserjump + crouch into the bunker

If you mean the bunker with the nex, that doesn't help diffuse the traffic at the main entrance. The base is almost 'too secure'.

I think something like a long hallway that goes out the side of the base but holds a disadvantage, like the exit is above the water as pictured below would be a good addition. Even better if it's slopped..

Code: Select all

          ____________
         /            \
        |              |
        |              |
        |              |
_______|              |
|  _____               |
| |     |              |
| |     |              |
| |     |              |
| |     |              |
| |      \____________/
| |         |______|
| |
| |          ______
| |         |      |
| |         |      |
| |         |      |
| |         |______|
| |
| |     _________________ 
| |    | |  |       |  | |
\ \   | |  |       |  | |
  \ \__| |  |       |  | |
   \___| |  |       |  | |
       | |  |       |  | |
       | |  |       |  | |
       | |  |       |  | |
       | |  |       |  | |
       |_|__|_______|__|_|


rofl before i read your post i thought thats a stick figure!
i like b5 a lot

Thanks for the proposals. Personally I'm not a fan of long hallways (this one would have to be rather long), so I opted to make laserjumping into the bunker have a higher success rate. Note the modified first post.

Can we have some screenshots plz?

SavageX wrote:Thanks for the proposals. Personally I'm not a fan of long hallways (this one would have to be rather long), so I opted to make laserjumping into the bunker have a higher success rate. Note the modified first post.

Okay well this still doesn't solve the bottleneck. If you look at maps like mikectf2 and moonstone, they're long hallways are what make the map, having the optional routes.

These additional telporters inside the bunker feel like an after thought and the new "easier" to get into bunker", I find harder to get into. Where I used to be able to slide down and make it in on an overshot, there is now a bump in my way.

Also, it feels like I'm swimming in urine. I think this is a step backwards to be honest.

[-z-] wrote:Okay well this still doesn't solve the bottleneck. If you look at maps like mikectf2 and moonstone, they're long hallways are what make the map, having the optional routes.

I'd like to keep things simple with this one.

[-z-] wrote:These additional telporters inside the bunker feel like an after thought and the new "easier" to get into bunker", I find harder to get into. Where I used to be able to slide down and make it in on an overshot, there is now a bump in my way.

Those teleporters, from my point of view, make sense. The bunkers were pretty pointless before and left mostly unpopulated/undefended, which now *has* to change if you don't want attackers to directly beam into your base.

Climbing the window is now a simple laserjump (slam against the rim from *below*) and duck+forward. This saves a perceived second in my tests and is impossible to get wrong.

[-z-] wrote:Also, it feels like I'm swimming in urine. I think this is a step backwards to be honest.

I can change it to crystal clear water in the next iteration (it was, originally - but I felt the muddier water fits better). Even with urine it can't possibly look worse than the original pool water (at least with r_water enabled).

pictures as requested:

right right right (nice illustration, btw).

I assume the rim *above* the window may have been a bad bad bad idea.

How about a rim *below* the window?

How about not having a rim that you can sit on- but instead beveling the lower and upper lip a bit (like 45°)?

that's also a possibility.

what about a bigger rim , so u can not sit on it?
or what about closing the window totally? ^^
anyway b6 is nice

I'd prefer no lip, no angle. If you'd really like one though, I think bottom would be better... and more subtle, like (hate to use it as an example but) zion. It's just a few pixels.

[-z-] wrote:I'd prefer no lip, no angle. If you'd really like one though, I think bottom would be better... and more subtle, like (hate to use it as an example but) zion. It's just a few pixels.

Agreed

Jumping in the bunker is a bit random, so it's risky and fun. Shouldn't be made *so* easy.

Nice release, unfortunately yesterday it seems was a bit too early to find a server running it so I couldn't see how it performs in multiplayer.

I also noticed the lip thing, I think no lip would be better (or just a subtle one underneath the window, as [-z-] suggested. The way it's now could make it a bit too hard to hit the window (imagine all those shotguns pointing at you while you're trying it, not to mention the explosives and the nex guns) and wouldn't really be used by a lot of players. I really like how the bunker suddenly became more important, will probably make for great gameplay .

I also noticed a funny thing about the water reflections, but I'm pretty sure this is engine-related. Anyway, the new water looks great.

updated first post for b7.

Small rim, no more pee in the pool.

love it!

and btw did u move the boxes a bit? because i do not get stuck anymore

Mirio wrote:and btw did u move the boxes a bit? because i do not get stuck anymore

No, I moved the teleporter exits a bit. Same result

In other news: Its not the chicken that crosses the street but its the street that moves under the chicken

esteel wrote:In other news: Its not the chicken that crosses the street but its the street that moves under the chicken

I've been waiting for someone to solve this for so many years. Thanks!

But this raises another question: why did the street move under the chicken?...

I don't really like the latest version with the added portals or the room under the base. It might impede the speeding escapes a bit (although it does give the carrier a megahealth on his way out), but it changes the map entirely.

I quite liked the "difficult to get the flag, easier to get back" aspect of it.


I wish I had more constructive criticism to offer, but I don't. *turns out pockets*

Slowing down the escapes a bit is a desired effect of the new design. Hunting down a flag carrier is great fun, but was pretty futile with the old design.


Notice that you can still escape at ultraspeed if you e.g. laserjump into the new portals. Plus you now have two escape sides (left/right). And of course getting into the base is easier now and defense has to cover a bigger area (it's now not sufficient anymore to cover the main entrance), so the escape for sure needed a redesign.

I'm pretty sure skilled players will have similiar capture times compared to the old versions, perhaps a second or two slower.

SavageX wrote:I'm pretty sure skilled players will have similiar capture times compared to the old versions, perhaps a second or two slower.

i got around 10 secs while testing it.., so i think the average in game will be 11~12 or something