Hello everyone

This is my first "sophisticated" map and I have been working on it for quite a while, mainly because I learned a lot in the process and had to rebuild it several times.

I tried to create a "feel-good", naturalistic map with lots of wood, stone, water, blue sky. (Almost) all of the textures are new, details in the included treasureisland.txt file. I created the textures using two sources of raw photographs and textures (other than my own drawings): Ben Cloward - Texture Archive and The Blender texture disc.

Any helpful and/or positive comments are much appreciated.

Please note: This version is intended for testing purposes. I will upload the first finished version as soon as possible.



So here it is:


UPDATE: Get the latest version here

Details
BSP Name: treasureislandb3.bsp
Intended for DM and Minsta, 8 spawn points.


Things that are not finished yet:
- Water Texture; I did not find a good, usable photograph, so I will create one with Blender
- Alignments of all the bevels; A lot of work that I am postponing.
- Hints; There are some areas I will have to experiment a bit more with hint brushes, especially on "the bridges" facing the arena.
- Sounds; I will add some sounds: water, wind and so on.
- Notes/info_* textures; I need to create a shader preventing them from quality reduction, so that they are readable all the time.


Questions and Problems:
Question 1: What commands should I use for the final compilation? For this version I used the standard "Q3Map2: (final) BSP -meta, -vis, -light -deluxe -fast -filter -super 2"

Problem 1: There are 2 flipped triangles
WARNING: Flipped triangle: ( -24 768 464) ( -32 768 464) ( 0 768 464)
WARNING: Flipped triangle: ( -24 256 464) ( -32 256 464) ( 0 256 464)
How do I find them?

Problem 2: I had this problem at the beginning, it vanished during the rebuilding process, but now it returned. Initializing the map returns some problems: Collision_ValidateBrush: brush with no points! and Collision_ValidateBrush: all points lie on all planes (degenerate, no brush volume!).
But the points it states do not exist in the map file, how do I find these brushes? I will try to find a solution but maybe someone has a quick answer.

There are probably some things I now forgot to ask, I may add some questions later...

So long
sev

Hey I really like this map already. It's very pretty to look at and I enjoyed running around it. I'm not sure it will make for great gameplay but I definitely liked running around looking at all the stuff. Great happy sunny atmosphere.

Some things I noticed:

- afaik there is no need to supply a shaderlist.txt file in the .pk3.

- imho the water should not be trigger hurt. I know you probably want people to stay away from the edges but I would still like it if the water was just water and you could swim around in it. Perhaps the edges could be made some pointy rocky stuff with a trigger_hurt ? I did see your comment that the map still needs real water so this could just be a temporary deal.

- Also, can there be fish ? Even a shark maybe ? How about a little boat that bobs up and down a bit in the water ? Oh wait these are already requests

- I noticed there was some part of the map clipped away, it had some crates I could not reach that I should be able to reach. I personally find this annoying and I am pretty sure I'm not the only one If you don't want players to camp behind the crates you should think about removing them altogether or put something else there which is a bit lower.

All in all, maybe not the Nexuiz look but still a very attractive map.

I'm pretty disappointed the water kills you.

The shapes are fun, there is a good flow to this map, I can speed around in a very fun way.

The player clip brushes are annoying as hell... the basement for example, or above the buildings, it looks like you can go to certain areas and you can't.

Also, is there a hurt trigger on the ceiling?!?


Some pictures of annoying brushes

I was running around in the map to just get a feel for it..I think it should be bigger,scaled up some.The doors can stop you if jumping and also it just feels too narrow in general. Did you map for quake3 before? The models in Nexuiz are taller, can jump higher and also i think the view port is at an other position in Nexuiz which makes stuff seem smaller.

The visuals are very nice, except for the arena beneath the base.. the texture seemed very dull to me. Also nice usage or electro bubble models you have there

Some other textures, like the round things the machinegun and rocketlauncher are on) seemed rather washed out compared to others, maybe exchange them?

I have not yet test-played the map so i'm not sure how the insta-death water or the weapon layout will work out but i think both is ok. Some moving items in the water would be nice. The idea with fish (functrain/moveable ?) is great. The clipping is IMO better then getting stuck too much but maybe its a bit too much at some parts.

I haven't played it yet (I'm currently at work) but I already have one request.

CTF

Thank you.

What about birds?
Srsly, an island without annoying seagulls is no island. Don't forget these when you put in your sounds.
Map looks nice. Except for [-z-]'s screenies

here are some prefabs from bubba's tutorials for fish , sharks, dolphin. maybe you can use these.awesome map btw http://bubba.planetquake.gamespy.com/prefabs2.html

Wow, I did not expect this amount of replies in this short amount of time...

First of all, this is my very first map, of course I did some small maps to learn how to build a room and so on, but I think you know what I mean. I know there are some shortcommings, also because I designed it before I knew how to build it.

About the water: There are only 2 possibilities, either make it "real water" to dive into, or make it trigger_hurt (a solid water surface to walk on would be unlogical and destroy the map layout/flow).

I would have loved to put in a real water shader, it looks great but it kills performance, (see screenshots, fps is at about 25% of the uploaded version, because of the reflections, I know, but still) I would need to generate a new big area below the water surface and have to put in a lot more visible rocks and stuff.

I spent a lot of time improving the r_speed values, so that the map is playable in the first place, and I dont intend to do anything to worsen it again...

Another reason against "real" water is that if I would fall into it I would want to get out as fast as possible and back to the action, because gameplay under water is not that great, and as a result I would avoid it in the first place, leading to the same situation as the current one.

About sharks: That is a great idea, I will experiment with that, it also would make it more logical why the water kills you.

About the clipping: I put in 2 kinds of clips, the first ones are to prevent the player from getting stuck, the 2 rooms are heavily clipped for this purpose in order the get in and out of the doors as smoothly as possible.
The other ones are to prevent camping, and you need to look at them in perspective of the spawn points. These are probably the ones that annoy you, I will work on that and try to make it obvious where you can go and where not and probably remove some. I expected that because as the mapper I know exactly where they are (and why), and it becomes difficult to see which ones are annoying.

The ceiling is trigger_hurt, yes. I want to prevent anyone using the grappling hook and hang at the ceiling. I could not reach it with the laser, only with the RL though.

I also want to prevent any snipers on the roofs (I would be one myself), hence the clips. It completely annoys me that when playing maps like toxic, sometimes a lot of the action is going on ontop of the roofs, and the playfield becomes a simple plane, especially in minsta.

@ [GF]HarryButt, i am sorry but i have no idea what [-z-]'s screenies are.

@ Grasshopper, thanks for the link, I will check it out.

So much for now, thanks for all the response so far. I will continue trying to improve the map...

Forgot the screenshots to the previous post
Note: These are not screenshots of the actual map, they are to illustrate the problems with the water.

Wow , looks awesome.
About these degenerate brushes, take a note of the brush number then open the .map file in a text editor, do a search for the brush and delete it.
Then make sure you at least open it and save it in radiant before you compile again.
can't wait to check it out, nice

In the future- use mediafire No wait times or any of the bullshit Rapidshare does.

http://www.mediafire.com/

Or even better use filefront for faster downloads

Seriously, this has to be the most confusing captcha I've ever seen

My screenshots had 'r_showcollisionbrushes' set to 0.4 to show some of the clips (usually an orange or green block) that annoyed me .

An instant death on the water is silly. I don't think swimming is that bad of game play. Solutions I see:

- Make the triger hurt only take away a little health at a time (maybe the water is toxic?)
- Make the water shallow
- Add jump pads to smaller rocks/crates to assist you out of the water faster.

I've uploaded the map to http://maps.nexuizninjaz.com/
map link here

*cough* ...ctf... *cough*

excuse me

This thread is going at warp speed!

Wow, very very nice for a first map
I haven't played it yet, just wathced the screenshots, (I have a map compiling, but I'll check this one ASAP ) but I already have some suggestions:

First of, phong shading the rocks will help you to get a better natural look on them.
Some more little detaul would be nice: loose bricks/ paint on the walls, rust, plants, BIRDS!!!
etc...



And no, please don't make a CTF version, only if you've finished with the DM one

Ok, my critique-

It's obvious you have an eye for detail- I love the style; it's an awesome departure from the gloomy quake castles/oversaturated lego block maps we usually get. There are lots of nice touches that really make it look good (the map, textures, etc). In this way, I think you are like me

How you can improve the visuals-

For thinks like rocks, the small sand beach, etc- use .ase models. Brushes simply can't get across the organic feel you are going for.

Make the map bigger! This goes hand in hand with gameplay- it's a common problem with beginning mappers, that they underestimate the size of players, and how much room they need. You can use the player entity to estimate the size. Imo, this map should be ~1.5x the size it is now. You should also increase the size of the beach, so it's actually a place people can run around on and fight.

Please, please light up the bottom area, and the indoor areas. It's VERY dark. Some lanterns in there to provide a nice glow would be very cool.

Put in a real water shader! Your water looks very good (with reflections)

Onto gameplay-

I agree with you that certain elements should be clipped off. However, it's poor mapping etiquette to make areas you don't want explored, kill you. The ceiling, for example- a simple player clip instead of trigger_hurt would be sufficient. I like that you clipped off the roof. As for the water, I think its should be made real water. You can make it non-advantageous to sit in there by putting a player clip so players don't go too deep.

I love the shark idea

Of course, you really need to make this bigger for it to be usable gameplay-wise.

Good work, keep it up I'll be watching this one as it progresses.

[-z-] wrote:- Make the triger hurt only take away a little health at a time (maybe the water is toxic?)

There is a map in Urban Terror, where you can fall down into a pool of water and then it says "Piranha!" and continuously depletes health until you're dead. You could use "Sharks!" If you're actually going to implement them.

I added a mediafire link in the first post.

About the scale: The problem is that I fit it into the blocksize grid, scaling it up by 1.5 will be a problem.

About models etc: I have no idea yet how to create models

About CTF: This map is not really made for CTF, except if you mirror it, which is lame.

About the map in general: Of course I will try to listen to all the experienced mappers here and improve it here and there, and I want to finish a version 1.0. But I have worked on it for so long that I want to come to a closure with it (I will release it under GPL, everyone is welcomed to improve it)

In a way, Treasure Island is my apprenticeship, but I have a lot of other ideas for a lot better maps, and I will use all the things I learned from building TI in order to avoid the mistakes i did.
I am currently planning my next map, same style, but bigger, with a bigger variety of locations, and with plants, workname: Sea Temple.

@ [-z-]: the screenshot you used with the uploaded map is not from the actual map and will probably lead to a disapointment for the downloader.

@ torus: player clip does not prevent the hook from grappling, but I will change the ceiling. Bigger beach is noted.

@ C.Brutail: Again, I am a noob, so assume I have no idea what you are talking about . That said, what is phong shading? Or more importantly, how do I "phong shade" in Radiant?

@ [GF]HarryButt: I just realised what you meant with [-z-] screenies when I used the name above , sorry about that

Thanks again for all the replies.

Grappling is only enabled in some servers, but the trigger_hurt is there even without grapple. Do what you wish, but I can guarantee that you will get complaints.

As for adding/creating models for maps, this is a very useful skill to know. Join #nexuiz.editing on irc.quakenet.org, and I'll help you through the process, if you want.

So, after a good night's sleep I had some time to think about all your suggetions.

I will continue working on the map in about 1 week, as besides my newfound profession of a junior mapper I sporadically have to study .

Some of the things I am going to work on:

Water: The water shader looks absolutely great if reflections are turned on, but not if turned off (screenshot).

I will build a version with a shader and a version with a more realistic looking water texture, so you can decide yourself. Or I will need to create a completely new water shader... Anyway, I will work on that.

I will remove the trigger_hurt from the water and make it deeper, but only so much that the player cannot look below the water surface, in this way I do not have to add anything that worsens performance. I also will make it a pain in the a* to move around in (sorry ), so my original concept of game flow stays the same.

I will add some sharks (fins) and going near one becomes an instant kill.


Clips: I am going to work on the clips as well, trying to make it obvious where you can go and where not. I will keep the clips on the roofs. I will remove the trigger_hurt at the ceiling and experiment with something else.


I also will make the beach bigger to make it more inviting to play on. (And maybe a "sandier" texture)


Until then, some questions about the "story"/info_textures:
I am interested in who can and who cannot read the info_textures (letter on the desk, map at the wall, notes at the treasure chamber), due to quality/resolution settings.
Of course I am also interested in who found the treasure chamber based on the hints in the letter and on the map?


Thanks again for all your help.

sev wrote:
About the scale: The problem is that I fit it into the blocksize grid, scaling it up by 1.5 will be a problem.

scaling it up is no problem. q3map2 can do it for you. take a look at the scale-switch: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Q3Map2#General_options
This means that you can continue working on your map like you're used to, but you can scale it during the compile-process (so there's no out-of-grid-pain )

But check the map afterwards.. i think there were problems with scaling up in a Nexuiz map.. Aggressor maybe? It had to be scaled twice to keep the lightmap intact.