Mr. Bougo wrote:... See, if you get chased by three enemies, that means you need a teammate to protect you... Even two... And most people don't really care about teamplay, right?

i always protect flag carriers, i follow them bunny hopping and laser jumping all the way, going backwards and shoting enemy, and i always can predict where FC will go, oh and half of my attetion is always on flag icon to notice exact moment when he is killed, so i can make 180 turn and grab the flag before enemy.
Its so easy to do, i realy dont understand why these ppl dont do that

Yeah, I too always protect the flag-carrier being close to him (in case he drops the flag) but not too close so that if he gets killed I too will get killed. The only times I do not protect the flag-carrier is when my team is obviously stronger and I "let" the other team either kill the FC or let them take our flag and score ^_^ (I'm a nice guy). Other times I just switch team.

But also, nowadays I've seen more people gaining ridiculous speeds with just the laser, that it's impossible to stop the flag-carrier, even for a really good player. Now I think mostly about the newbies. If they start out playing and run into matches like that, they will drop CTF, or perhaps even Nexuiz. They won't stand a chance to do anything. And CTF SHOULD be a team-play game, it should be very hard to score all by yourself.
Like on Greatwall or Reservoir where even when the whole team is in base, then only ONE guy comes grabs the flag and off he flies away, and you barely even noticed him, yet alone could stop him.

However, with the new system in place maybe a better teamwork would get established. There's nothing to lose at least as far as it concerns me.

ai wrote:However, with the new system in place maybe a better teamwork would get established. There's nothing to lose at least as far as it concerns me.

In most cases it is not the code that needs changes, but the maps. There simply are not enough good quality CTF maps that encourage a good CTF Match.

And of course, experienced players (like you probably are) should communicate more, and more clearly. I have noticed that the best players usually play by themselves, or send standard team messages like "roaming (l:%l^7) (h:%h^7 a:%a^7 w:%w^7)" or "enemy seen (l:%y^7)", this is not very helpful for noobs.

sev wrote:I have noticed that the best players usually play by themselves

Yup. Laserjumping to the front line, laserjumping back to own flag. That why I want them to be not able to gain such speeds, so that the other team members actually realize what's going on with the flag and help out.
For noobs who play the game the first time it's especially confusing when the flag carrier is flying at ninja speed.

sev wrote:or send standard team messages like "roaming (l:%l^7) (h:%h^7 a:%a^7 w:%w^7)" or "enemy seen (l:%y^7)", this is not very helpful for noobs.

This could be solved by a Voicechat menu with sound samples like in Enemy Territory. For I don't give much attention to chat messages, because I'm too busy shooting people Maybe increasing the message stay time might help too.
Of course, the perfect solution would be VoIP.

But this is the Flag topic anyway.

sev wrote:In most cases it is not the code that needs changes, but the maps.

Well, even if there were good CTF maps (which there are, like Runningman, Controlfactor, Hal-Palindrome and mIKECTF (yes those are good), the FC can still get in and out of these bases with ease. You'd have to be a very good defender in order to stop them.
And I don't think you even can blame the maps unless they actually are really bad, cause no matter which map you can still get super speed if you know what you're doing. You'd have to have some kind of a narrow hallway with uneven ground, walls and ceiling in order to not get the speeds. But such maps are of course considered bad.
So, ultimately, crippling the FC is a must, and think about it. It wouldn't hurt newbies that much either, as newbies don't know how to laser or rocket themselves, or if they do they don't usually do it to well and they shoot they way out of the base. So crippling the FC won't hurt them too much but would be a blow to those very fast players.

It's "Capture the flag - Teamwork", not "Capture the flag - As fast as you can", then you might as well make a time mod where speed does matter, and the clock is your only enemy.

However, we would need suggestions as how to cripple the FC. What should be done for him? Weakening the laser? Increasing the damage on the laser? Give him melee? Give him shield? etc. Suggestions would be good.

ai wrote:Weakening the laser? Give him melee? Give him shield? etc. Suggestions would be good.

Thinking about it, a melee weapon is not very effective in a fast game where you can hardly touch other players.
I vote for a weakened laser and a recharging shield as secondary fire. Imo this would be enough to ensure that the carrier is not being killed too easily, but he is also not able to gain such extreme speeds, so that he's always in need for backup.

Nexuiz has a regeneration system already. You could apply an enhanced regeneration to the carrier while he has the flag. And a limit of 150 or 200 armor/HP maybe? Might be an alternative to balance the disarmed carrier.

I think cloth is still doable as long as it is either

a) a framed cloth
b) an "energy" cloth (if that makes sense)

With either of those, it won't be strange when the cloth doesn't move in the wind.

You could make the flag part like a lightsaber so you can have a sort of lightsaber halberd.So at least the flagcarrier will have some sort of weapon.

What about this kind of flag?
(No, I didn't make anything of this, I just found the picture on CG Society forums. Nice concept)

As far as I can see we already had a concept with a Naginata-styled shaft.
It's a cool concept, but I don't like the melee idea anymore.

I love the melee idea

torus wrote:I love the melee idea

I love the fact that it would encourage teamwork. BUT, I think voice chat needs to be implemented first.

By the way, I had to get rid of my mumble server. Just thought I'd let everyone know...

Just yesterday, someone asked if you could melee people in Nexuiz. I told him that no melee was possible. He came from Halo he said, so he was used to that.
But overall, I think there should be a melee function overall, not only if having the flag in a CTF game. But that's a topic for another day, for another thread.

Anyway. Shall we put this concept CTF flags to an end and start with an elimination process? It doesn't look that much more concepts are being thought of. And while we're at it, could also introduce various methods to cripple the flag-carrier.

I don't have a suggestion yet cause I do not know what is plausible. However, taking away the abilities to use any weapon (possibly even the laser). Then giving him some other candy.

ai wrote: It doesn't look that much more concepts are being thought of.

i don't think that's quite true, but the problem is that those who think of other concepts are held back from posting, because everybody wants a cloth flag.

4m wrote:

ai wrote: It doesn't look that much more concepts are being thought of.

i don't think that's quite true, but the problem is that those who think of other concepts are held back from posting, because everybody wants a cloth flag.

Well, even though they are held back, as long as no one posts anything that equals as no new concepts are being thought of. And if the "cloth" is the only thing that's bothering them and stopping them from posting then perhaps they just aren't creative enough.

I already posted 2 concepts without cloth.

Anyway, I think ai is right. We should announce a deadline (middle of August?) and define some rules for posting votable concepts (Only own work, e.g. no screenshots from other games or photographs), and then cast a vote.

Even if the flag concept voted for will not be used in the game, it still would indicate what kind of flag is preferred by the players, and this thread could come to an end.

NEVER!!!!

How about some kind of "hula hoop" ring-thing around the player? Or a cube? Just a cube! Floating around the player like a runematch buoy. Or a hat maybe? A hat with a flag on top. Forget the hat, how about a simple sprite like the chatbubbles i made with an arrow pointing at the player saying "Flag Carrier". Or a bubble covering the player. Or a duck? An aligator! Or an aligator chasing a duck! Wait! NO! Don't hang up! Hello? Hello?

I vote -1 for the meelee idea. I want to defend myself while I'm carrying the flag, the whole other team is on my butt damn it

4m wrote:Or a hat maybe? A hat with a flag on top.

I love this idea, I really do! Seriously.

Melee would be very powerful- a it could be a 1 hit kill if you are aiming directly at the enemy for, say, 2 seconds, or a two hit kill otherwise.

Melee with the flag would also force the players to play as a team, giving protection to the flag carrier (since he is slower).

Okay, I've reupped most of my images at imageshack.us, for I don't trust freeimagehosting.net anymore Look at my old posts, all the stuff is online again.
I want a voting already!
Is it actually possible to do multiple votes in one thread? Like flag carrier shield/weakened laser/melee? Flag: morphed/Harry/sev etc.?

This will (probably) be my last concept I post in this thread.

It sums up the concepts and ideas from this thread from my point of view. It also is more "realistic", meaning this could actually be turned into a usable model (my previous blue compound bow concept has to much curves and complicated forms for that).

I would like a semi-transparent plastic foil or a hologram being used instead of the cloth, but that is not really important for now.

I also thought about a way it is put on (in) the ground. This was not really investigated yet. At the lower part of the shaft I put 4 lasers, enabling it to stand without a "base", activated if put on the ground, and deactivated when carried.

yeah. I like this one the best...

Not sure about the lasers at the bottom though, might have to go a little further with that thought.

sev wrote:This will (probably) be my last concept I post in this thread.

It sums up the concepts and ideas from this thread from my point of view. It also is more "realistic", meaning this could actually be turned into a usable model (my previous blue compound bow concept has to much curves and complicated forms for that).

I would like a semi-transparent plastic foil or a hologram being used instead of the cloth, but that is not really important for now.

I also thought about a way it is put on (in) the ground. This was not really investigated yet. At the lower part of the shaft I put 4 lasers, enabling it to stand without a "base", activated if put on the ground, and deactivated when carried.

I like your other one better, mostly because of the curves. This one, although good too, is too simple, symmetric and boring, so to say. I also loved the handles that hold the flag a lot better in the blue version. But I like the stand you made in this one.
The laser idea is good, but if people don't like that you could just create a stand/base that are at the base all the time.

I do like the way you stabilize the cloth portion so it doesn't have to animate in the wind. Yet, it still looks like cloth because it looks like it is being stretched. No matter what happens with the base/staff portion, I think the flag portion should use that style.

Dokujisan wrote:I do like the way you stabilize the cloth portion so it doesn't have to animate in the wind. Yet, it still looks like cloth because it looks like it is being stretched. No matter what happens with the base/staff portion, I think the flag portion should use that style.

I agree. I also like that it's stretched that way as you wouldn't need to animate it and could choose if the flag should have rips and being torn a bit or clean.

That last concept drawing looks a little excessive if you know what I mean.

I've made my mind, imho this is the best concept yet:
http://forums.alientrap.local/viewtopic.php?p=39837#39837

Due to some problem to my PC I can't finish the models I made some months ago (objects and player models).
I've seen the latest very good works and, if needed, here is other material ready made.
If someone would like to continue or modify my work I can send the .blend files.
I posted the images of both flags and characters (still undressed and unarmoured) on:

http://pics.nexuizninjaz.com/files/yami8tas9ai1utso3w64.jpg
http://pics.nexuizninjaz.com/files/57o7g07cz8nbekug3h6e.jpg

For player models you can find in this forum a dedicated topic titled "[Characters]Materials
for player models sharing" where I published mines. Feel free to upload yours.

Flags:




Cya : )

VOTE!